Gimme a stiffy in the foot. AT style

[kidwoo]

Back when I got my AT boots, everyone I know said "lowa". So I got some of the old lowa stuktura evos......the rust colored ones.

They're thoroughly packed out and were probably half a size too big to begin with so I've been thinking about new kicks.

I just tried on a pair of the lowa rodeos that are coming out next year and they're extremely stiff. They also weigh about as much as my alpine boots though. This was a demo preseason thing so they may vary upon production but they were tanks. The ski down is the priority but I also like to be able to enjoy a few laps without totally killing my legs on the climb.

Seems like garmonts are all the rage from a little search here.

Anything else you guys are using that you're happy with? I'm using fritchis on a pair of gotamas so they don't need to be dynafit.

My foot is wide at the ball and narrow at the heel.

Thanks

[wolfy]

i've had good luck with my denali's set up as follows: Raichle comp tongue and white rear spoiler, plus 2 salomon forward lean wedges in each boot (see Granite Chief) all held in place by a bolt that also holds a 2" power strap (see Cosmo). thin layer of neoprene under the liners (for warmth), have tried liners from Raichle Comps, Salomon X-max 10's, Langes and Intuition. They all work- some better than others- depending on your foot...

[upallnight]

I rocked the Denalis for a long time -- skied 'em every day inbounds and have done long slogs (i.e., climbing & skiing from the summit of Denali (Orient Express) and a bunch of stuff in the Tetons & Sierras)....Great with Fritschis.

I preferred the older (red) tongue to the newer (silver) TT/XT tongue. Raichle tongue would be good.

Switched to Mega Rides mid-season after many years due to the need for Dynafit compatibility. I figured I'd use both boots but haven't put the Denalis on since Feb.

[upallnight]

Also, Denalis tend to have a super-boxy fit (i.e., good for you in the forefoot but probably too big in the heel). Garmonts are more snug all-around.

[kidwoo]

Denalis on the list.

question: what's the liner situation on them? Lace up, sewn in tounge, wierd pressure points etc?

thanks

[upallnight]

Denalis on the list.

question: what's the liner situation on them? Lace up, sewn in tounge, wierd pressure points etc?

thanks

Not sure what they put in there currently, but when I got mine I got BD to sell me a shell. I instantly put in an Intuition full Alpine Custom Power Wrap liner, as I do/have done for all my boots.

I have heard (but do not know from expereince) that the BD thermo liners are OK but nt as good as the Intuitions.

Consider, too, the Garmont Adrenaline if you don't need Dynafit compatibility.

[kidwoo]

i've had good luck with my denali's set up as follows: Raichle comp tongue and white rear spoiler, plus 2 salomon forward lean wedges in each boot (see Granite Chief) all held in place by a bolt that also holds a 2" power strap (see Cosmo). thin layer of neoprene under the liners (for warmth), have tried liners from Raichle Comps, Salomon X-max 10's, Langes and Intuition. They all work- some better than others- depending on your foot...

Those aren't denalis though, those are wolfy customs.

Quick question.....does Cosmo sell liners? I know he does full custom molds but I've never employed his services so I don't know what else he provides.

I've also never bothered with moldable liners and just shopped till I found something that fits so I need to get on the phone and find out who sells them round here I guess.

I'm actually thinking about just seeing if these make any sort of worthwhile improvement to my lowas now before comitting to another pair of boots.

[upallnight]

This is discussed in other threads (search for Mega Rides or MegaRides and you'll see my recommendations), but you can do everything wolfy suggests for yourself as follows:

* get a 1/8 bontex foot pad (like $2) which will take up a bit of volume and give just a little extra warmth;
* buy a booster strap to replace the stock power strap (~$20)
* get a hard foam pad for $1 or $2 to attach to the back of your innerboot to increase the forward lean.

(all the above can be purchased from tognar.com and are trivial to do on your own.)

[the_eleven]

Quick question.....does Cosmo sell liners? I know he does full custom molds but I've never employed his services so I don't know what else he provides.

Cosmo sells Intuition and will mold them for you. Make sure that you use a large enough toe cap when molding for AT.

[wolfy]

ditto upallnights comments on do it yourself- best way to go in the long run- Cosmo cooked up some intuitions for mrs wolfy- about 200, may be some "end of season" deals out there...check Backcountry @Lake/Truckee, i saw 20% off . we've made some pretty exotic boots for some 'troller rats over the years by a combination of trades, thrift stores, dumpster diving etc...( ad heat guns and sawzalls)
Q- for upallnight- sizing in megarides similar to alpine/downhill? i may need a garage project for the summer. tnx

[the_eleven]

Wolfy, that avatar is the geatest.

[Meathelmet]

Q- for upallnight- sizing in megarides similar to alpine/downhill? i may need a garage project for the summer. tnx

I have 24.5 in my alpine boots (speedmachine14) and 25.5 in my megarides.

My alpines are bitch to walk in,mega´s are comfy even for longer romps.
I could have stepped down a .5 in the shellsize, but not a whole size.

But,i have replaced the stock liner in the megarides with a 27 size raichles thermoflex that eats up a lot of space.
The added bonus it the added stiffness and superb fit.

The boots finally fit as well as my alpines AND they are a blast to skin/hike with.

On the downside, the boot doesnt flex that well (if at all...) with the stiff-raichle tongue...

Soo, i use the more flexible tongue for day long tours and the stiffer one when "just" skiing and hiking.

Some shameless self promo on the subject.

http://tetongravity.com/forums/showt...de+tongue+swap

[upallnight]

Q- for upallnight- sizing in megarides similar to alpine/downhill? i may need a garage project for the summer. tnx

Personally, I am very interested in the downhill performance of my (AT) boots, so I size them as I would alpine boots (i.e., snug), but when molding thermo liners I take a few precautions to carve out sufficient space in key places with a toe cap and an extra piece of foam along the "6th toe".

My alpines are bitch to walk in,mega´s are comfy even for longer romps.
I could have stepped down a .5 in the shellsize, but not a whole size.

Garmont shells (as is true for most if not all boots) share the same shell for a whole and half size, but the liner is a bit thicker in one.

On the downside, the boot doesnt flex that well (if at all...) with the stiff-raichle tongue...

Not sure why one would want a boot that doesn't flex. I like a more moderate Raichle tongue that will flex enough to be great for downhill performance and still hike well, rather than either (a) the too-soft stock Garmont tongue or (b) a super-stiff Raichle tongue. Just my $0.02.

[corn dog]

we've made some pretty exotic boots ...( ad ... sawzalls)

Struth! What do you do with a pair of boots and a sawzall?

[wolfy]

the act with boots and a sawzall is illegal in both CA and NV, even with one consenting adult- so can't be discused here. other modifications have been done with a 357 (nordica took the boots back, by the way) and an 044 stihl (but thats just for flex) and another story...
-- i found that the Raichle tongues weren't all that bad for hiking,$0.02--
-- currently looking at a "walk mode" for kryptons, whaddya think? maybe THAT was Plakes dream boot...

[Particle]

Also don't forget to look at the Crispi Diablo Freeride. Got a pair this year and have been really enjoying them. Great walk mode, and lock down nice and stiff for the descent. I have a narrow foot all the way through, but the Diablos are too wide for me in the forefoot so should work well for you.

[Meathelmet]

1.Garmont shells (as is true for most if not all boots) share the same shell for a whole and half size, but the liner is a bit thicker in one.



2.Not sure why one would want a boot that doesn't flex.

Yup.
Thats what i about figured out..
The 24.5 got way too unconformable for me in the ankle area and my toes bottemed out, so i skipped it.
25 was so-so,so i ended up with a bit bigger boot.
I figured out that since the feet swell when romping for a whole day,it is a bit safer to be on the bigger side.

And no,i mean yes. The boot obviously flexes,quite well actually. What i ment there was the "walk flex" is way different than with the normal tongue.
The ski flex is now very near perfect now. I could actually ski on some tight-ass slalom sticks now in icy conditions,and the boots were mint.
The difference is just that the boots normal walking flex is next to gone.
So,if i would have to do some things that would require longer walkings, then definately the softer tongue that you mentioned would be better.

When skinning, i havent noticed that big difference though.
Then i keep my boots almost unbuckled anyway.

Sorry for the confusion..

[kidwoo]

Wolfy:
I've actually got a date with cosmo tomorrow to see if we can milk some life out of my lowa shells. I think that would be cheaper and a feasible option. If not, I'll definitely be checking out some of the other boots you guys have suggested.

Thanks.

[wolfy]

Cosmo has been known to work magic- let us know how things turn out- good luck with 'em

[kidwoo]

Cosmo has been known to work magic- let us know how things turn out- good luck with 'em

Got some intuition liners cooked and installed yesterday and took them out today. Still painful as shit. But at least from fewer angles. Cosmo was entertained by my complete lack of motion range from some badly broken ankles. Put in a heel lift to deal with that but now it just feels like I've got this vice around my arch and the sides of the top of each foot.

I've been pretty lucky with ski and snowboard boots in the past..... I've just dealt with it for 3 years from these boots for some reason.

I'll swing by cosmo's place again tomorrow and see what he thinks. Kind of feel like $200 that could have gone towards new boots just disapeared.

[theferret]

Money might not be wasted- if you get new boots the intuition liners can get recooked and used in those.

I just switched from Garmont Megarides to Dynafit Freeride Aero boots. Love the Dynafits- they are super stiff, I believe stiffer even than the Adrenalins (I use dynafit bindings though so this is heresay, I've not used the Adrenalins). And for me they are more comfortable going uphill than the megarides, though this might be just a fit issue. Just another boot to look at if the Lowas don't work for you.

[upallnight]

Got some intuition liners cooked and installed yesterday and took them out today. Still painful as shit. But at least from fewer angles. Cosmo was entertained by my complete lack of motion range from some badly broken ankles. Put in a heel lift to deal with that but now it just feels like I've got this vice around my arch and the sides of the top of each foot.

I've been pretty lucky with ski and snowboard boots in the past..... I've just dealt with it for 3 years from these boots for some reason.

I'll swing by cosmo's place again tomorrow and see what he thinks. Kind of feel like $200 that could have gone towards new boots just disapeared.

Wait....I thought you were looking for new boots. Did you like the Lowas?

Sounds like he charged you full-price (which is high) for the Intuitions...and you were only about $300 additional (or less) from getting a new boot with a pretty decent thermo liner (e.g., Mega Rides with G-Fit -- the G-Fit is not the Intuition, but it's OK).

Hm.

The Intuitions will be good in other boots (you should be able to cook them about 3 times -- the first should last around 120 days, the second 100, and the third less than that...), so it's not wasted $$...but I feel like given what you said above a new boot would have offered good fit (maybe the shell would be better suited to your foot) & better performance.

[kidwoo]

Wait....I thought you were looking for new boots. Did you like the Lowas?

Sounds like he charged you full-price (which is high) for the Intuitions...and you were only about $300 additional (or less) from getting a new boot with a pretty decent thermo liner (e.g., Mega Rides with G-Fit -- the G-Fit is not the Intuition, but it's OK).

Hm.

The Intuitions will be good in other boots (you should be able to cook them about 3 times -- the first should last around 120 days, the second 100, and the third less than that...), so it's not wasted $$...but I feel like given what you said above a new boot would have offered good fit (maybe the shell would be better suited to your foot) & better performance.

I know, don't rub it in.
I've always been fine with the stiffness of the lowas. And just dealt with the pain/poor fit on descent. I mean honestly...the huge majority of time in these things is unbuckled, walk mode on a skin track. Fine there obviously.

Part of the reason I went to see cosmo was get an informed opinion on the potential of the lowas and my foot. Kind of a "can we make this work?" scenario. He said the shell was perfect based on the sans liner fit. That just accounts for sole length though.....not the compression that happens in the shell once the tongue gets pressure from the buckles.

So I'm with you on the potential shell incompatiblilty though....hence the original thread. I was just trying to be cheap.

My feet are kind of screwed up from a bunch of breaks and tendon tears but I've managed to find a pair of alpine boots and snowboard boots that fit fine stock.

The main reason this is bugging me now is because I'm starting to plan some bigger tours down south (eastern sierras south) that have much longer descents than what I normally do just screwing around here on weekends.

I appreciate all the help though.......I AM taking notes.

I'm also going shopping tomorrow.

[upallnight]

Hey Kidwoo--
Sorry to hear about your troubles. Tough situation (and there's never enough $$).

Given the foot probs, maybe a softer boot would be helpful for you...something like a Dynafit TLT. I've used the TLT4Pros for long tours (multi-day in the Sierras), and they're great for skinning comfort. They are soft, but I have skied Dana Couloir, Solstice, Ripper, Coke Chute, Laurel & Redd Slate with them....so it is possible.

Anyway, you should be able to pick up a softer pair for cheaper than the "high-end" ski mountaineering boots.

What size shell do you generally wear?

I've gotta say that comfort on the tour should probably be the biggest consideration if going on those long ones. Pain seems to increase exponentially when you can't get a real rest at home each night.

[corn dog]

Yeah look around for cheap dynafit compatibility if you want to do long tours. I scored some older model dynafit tlt4 shells and some lasers and stuffed in thermo liners I already had. Both are great, dynafits for lightness and powder farming, lasers when I want more boot, esp since I put a flexon tongue in