Ben Stein (What a guy) - In relation to the God thread

[Humble]

If they know of him at all, many folks think Ben Stein is just a quirky actor/comedian who talks in a monotone. He's also a very intelligent attorney who knows how to put ideas and words together in such a way as to sway juries and make people think clearly.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The following was written by Ben Stein and recited by him on CBS Sunday Morning Commentary, Sunday, 12/18/05.

Herewith at this happy time of year, a few confessions from my beating heart: I have no freaking clue who Nick and Jessica are. I see them on the cover of People and Us constantly when I am buying my dog biscuits and kitty litter. I often ask the checkers at the grocery stores. They never know who Nick and Jessica are either. Who are they? Will it change my life if I know who they are and why they have broken up? Why are they so important? I don't know who Lindsay Lohan is either, and I do not care at all about Tom Cruise's wife.

Am I going to be called before a Senate committee and asked if I am a subversive? Maybe, but I just have no clue who Nick and Jessica are. If this is what it means to be no longer young? It's not so bad.

Next confession:
I am a Jew, and every single one of my ancestors was Jewish. And it does not bother me even a little bit when people call those beautiful lit up, bejeweled trees Christmas trees. I don't feel threatened. I don't feel discriminated against. That's what they are: Christmas trees. It doesn't bother me a bit when people say, "Merry Christmas" to me. I don't think they are slighting me or getting ready to put me in a ghetto. In fact, I kind of like it. It shows that we are all brothers and sisters celebrating this happy time of year. It doesn't bother me at all that there is a manger scene on display at a key intersection near my beach house in Malibu. If people want a creche, it's just as fine with me as is the Menorah a few hundred yards away.

I don't like getting pushed around for being a Jew, and I don't think Christians like getting pushed around for being Christians. I think people who believe in God are sick and tired of getting pushed around, period. I have no idea where the concept came from that America is an explicitly atheist country. I can't find it in the Constitution, and I don't like it being shoved down my throat.

Or maybe I can put it another way: where did the idea come from that we should worship Nick and Jessica and we aren't allowed to worship God as we understand Him?

I guess that's a sign that I'm getting old, too.

But there are a lot of us who are wondering where Nick and Jessica came from and where the America we knew went to.
In light of the many jokes we send to one another for a laugh, this is a little different: This is not intended to be a joke; it's not funny, it's intended to get you thinking.

Billy Graham's daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her "How could God let something like this Happen?" (regarding Katrina)

Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response. She said, "I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives.

And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?"

In light of recent events...terrorists attack, school shootings, etc. I think it started when Madeleine Murray O'Hare (she was murdered, her body found recently) complained she didn't want prayer in our schools, and we said OK.

Then someone said you better not read the Bible in school . the Bible says thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbor as yourself. And we said OK.

Then Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they misbehave because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem (Dr. Spock's son committed suicide). We said an expert should know what he's talking about. And we said OK.

Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill strangers, their classmates, and themselves.

Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can figure it out. I think it has a great deal to do with "WE REAP WHAT WE SOW."

Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the world's going to hell. Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the Bible says.

Funny how you can send 'jokes' through e-mail and they spread like wildfire but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord, people think twice about sharing.

Funny how lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene articles pass freely through cyberspace, but public discussion of God is suppressed in the school and workplace.

Are you laughing?

[erica_z]

I miss "Win Ben Stein's Money." I always wanted to be on that show.

Useless Trivia...now THAT'S the cat's pajamas

[Humble]

yea back when Jimmy Kimmel was a nobody

i did love that show too, though i was terribly bad at it =P

[MassLiberal]

Quoting someone who has made their living off of persuading people to see their side of an argument as an authority on societal trends is laughable. Ben Stein may be a good lawyer, but saying that a lack of god in the lives of americans is the cause of all our ills is so simplistic and stupid it boggles the mind.

How would he explain away the findings of this study? http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...hlight=Athiest

[DJSapp]

How would he explain away the findings of this study? http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...hlight=Athiest

Lies, damned lies, and statistics. Numbers can say anything. Depending on how you phrase a question, 90% of men are would be rapists.

[mr_gyptian]

Quoting someone who has made their living off of persuading people to see their side of an argument as an authority on societal trends is laughable. Ben Stein may be a good lawyer, but saying that a lack of god in the lives of americans is the cause of all our ills is so simplistic and stupid it boggles the mind.

How would he explain away the findings of this study? http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...hlight=Athiest

this might be elitist, but there are a good number of people that need something like the bible to give them sense of moral bearing. I've never been able to get my arms around religion whether organized or not. I've really no problem with religion itself. My problem lies with religions that prosthletize.

[cloudpeak]

Billy Graham's daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her "How could God let something like this Happen?" (regarding Katrina)

Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response. She said, "I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives.

And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?"

So, according to these believers, we hurt God's feelings and, as a result, he decided to sit on the sidelines while Katrina killed people in New Orleans? This piece goes on to imply the same thing about acts of terrorism.

Maybe I don't get this because I'm not a believer in any religion, but this God sounds just a tad bit too childish to be running the universe.

[The Dad]

yea back when Jimmy Kimmel was a nobody

When did that change? Just because he started dating Sarah Silverman?

[MassLiberal]

this might be elitist, but there are a good number of people that need something like the bible to give them sense of moral bearing. I've never been able to get my arms around religion whether organized or not. I've really no problem with religion itself. My problem lies with religions that prosthletize.

I agree, I have seen the belief in higher power turn the lives of many people around for the better. But just as many people use their belief in a higher power to rationalize immoral and illegal acts. I was only citing that thread as a counter argument to what Humble had posted.

[Stu Gotz]

Then Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they misbehave because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem (Dr. Spock's son committed suicide).

This quote shows what a petty little asshat Ben Stein is. "Looky here, we all trusted Dr. Spock. But he was such a good atheist, permissive role model that his son committed suicide!"

It wasn't Dr. Spock's son. It was his grandson. And he took his life after battling mental illness for most of this adult life. Maybe Stein should take his own narrative to heart.

[MassLiberal]

This quote shows what a petty little asshat Ben Stein is. "Looky here, we all trusted Dr. Spock. But he was such a good atheist, permissive role model that his son committed suicide!"

It wasn't Dr. Spock's son. It was his grandson. And he took his life after battling mental illness for most of this adult life. Maybe Stein should take his own narrative to heart.

But stein is a republican, and we all know how much respect they have for things like actual facts and reality.

[Stu Gotz]

Jerks reside on both sides of the political spectrum.

Ben Stein's just an ass.

[Jer]

He's also a very intelligent attorney who knows how to put ideas and words together in such a way as to sway juries and persuade people.

Fixed it for you.

[MassLiberal]

Jerks reside on both sides of the political spectrum.

Ben Stein's just an ass.

Naw ah, everyone on the left is perfect!!!

[rugbydave]

He worked for the Nixon administration... just a random fact

[cloudpeak]

If they know of him at all, many folks think Ben Stein is just a quirky actor/comedian who talks in a monotone. He's also a very intelligent attorney who knows how to put ideas and words together in such a way as to sway juries and make people think clearly.

Undoubtedly, these qualities came in handy when Stein worked as a lawyer and speechwriter for Richard Nixon. I seem to recall the Nixon Administration had a few legal problems.

[Spats]

Or maybe I can put it another way: where did the idea come from that we should worship Nick and Jessica and we aren't allowed to worship God as we understand Him?

Edit to note: this reply is directed at Ben Stein or whoever wrote that article, not anyone reading this.

1) The atheists I know are well-educated and busy and don't have time to read "People" or "Us" or watch "Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous"...it's the God-fearing matrons of Middle America who have an inexhaustible appetite for this crap.

2) No one is forcing anyone to buy celebrity magazines...it's called the free market, which Republicans appear to worship even more than Jesus. The vast majority of America is Christian, and occasionally Jewish. If you really wanted devotional hymns at the checkstand, you'd get them. But you buy gossip rags, so that's what you get.

3) The religious right has this amazing ability to feel persecuted even when they RUN THE WHOLE $&@$ COUNTRY ALREADY. You want to be persecuted, come out as an atheist. We've had our President tell us that we shouldn't be allowed to be citizens of the USA.

4) You can worship God all you want, anywhere you want. If you want to pray in the checkstand line or at your desk at work, go right ahead. But you don't get to indoctrinate *my* kids into *your* religion using government money, and I am not oppressing your poor widdle high-income upper-class big-business-and-government-owning tuchis by stopping you.

4) In short, to Ben Stein or whoever wrote this: you are factually wrong, and personally an ass.

[BigDaddy]

1) The atheists I know are well-educated and busy and don't have time to read "People" or "Us" or watch "Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous"...it's the God-fearing matrons of Middle America who have an inexhaustible appetite for this crap.....
...4) In short, to Ben Stein or whoever wrote this: you are factually wrong, and personally an ass.

Amen... (oppps, can an atheist say that?)

[theferret]

I don't belive Ben Stein wrote this, it sounds like one of those things that gets forwarded around via email. I'm sure its someone's sentiments- just not Ben Stein's. He might have written the first few paragraphs but the rest was written by someone else I think, and forwarded around via email.

(No I don't know Ben Stein, but I was listening to an old episode of Lovelines while waxing my boards last week, and this doesn't match the guy I heard - who by the way, is pretty darn funny).

-The Ferret

[Dantheman]

Ben wrote it
http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/benstein2.asp

I actually liked where it going at first (calling a christmas tree a holiday tree really is retarded), bu then he just goes of the fucking deep end.

Way to sum it up nicely Spats...total jackass.

[belgian]

I don't belive Ben Stein wrote this, it sounds like one of those things that gets forwarded around via email. I'm sure its someone's sentiments- just not Ben Stein's. He might have written the first few paragraphs but the rest was written by someone else I think, and forwarded around via email.

I don't either. I've seen several of the one-liners in several diffent places over the last few months, it just seems to be a strewn together version of that.

Personally, I think this is all rather stupid. The first time I saw the one about Spock's kid I wanted to knock out the lights of whoever wrote this, and I'm as non-confrontational as they come. What, so because some guy who supported a less-than-traumatic form of punishment had his [mentally ill] child kill themselves, I'm supposed to beat my children so they can truly learn right from wrong? leave the poor guy alone and leave me alone, my views should be respected just the same as yours. Except I don't think that anyone who truly believes that fact that their imaginary friend is the ruler of the world and because I don't follow his teachings that the world is going to shit should be regarded as anything less than a little nuts. I mean the people in charge of this world are the ones helping it along down that merry path to destruction and they're all really religious! (Bush, Ahmadinejad, Hamedina, Jong Il, etc.)

Next time, spare me the lecture.

my $.02

[theferret]

http://urbanlegends.about.com/librar..._christmas.htm

Ben Stein wrote the first bit (saying its OK to celebrate Christmas), other people added the garbage at the end about Katrina, etc... which twists what Stein was writing into something else entirely. His essay is pretty reasonable, the added stuff is the kook bit.

As I read it again, the writing stye changes quite a bit in the middle.

- The Ferret

[Will]

And it does not bother me even a little bit when people call those beautiful lit up, bejeweled trees Christmas trees. I don't feel threatened. I don't feel discriminated against. That's what they are: Christmas trees. It doesn't bother me a bit when people say, "Merry Christmas" to me.

I understand that Ben Stein is a good little soldier in the culture war and has to endorse the "war on christmas" nonsense, but I don't.

So someone lay it out for me clearly: What in the hell is the problem?

As I see it, the war on christmas complaints fall into two categories:

1) The gov't is not displaying a religious preference in a way that they used to.
For example, there used to be christian religious displays on gov't property back when everyone was christian, and those that weren't shut the hell up. Now in a more pluralistic society folks object to what appears to be government support for one particular religion and they point to the first amendment, asking gov't to restrain itself.
Who here seriously has a problem with that? Please explain why.

2) A private citizen, or corporation, is not displaying a religious preference in way that they used to.
Macy's, for example, got some crap this past winter for asking their employees to say "happy holidays" or something like that. To which I respond, "So what?" Macy's is a private company and can ask their employees to greet their customers in a variety of ways. If Macy's thinks it will make more money by using one greeting over another, they are more than welcome to.
Or do folks think that Macy's, and other corporations or private citizens, should be required to recognize particular holidays in particular ways?

And one final point, the essay which began this thread seems to claim that things have gotten obviously worse recently. They draw a direct causal link to the absence of overt judeo-christian religious thought in the public sphere. I'm not going to waste my time debating the claim of causality. Rather I'm going after the main premise: who actually thinks things have gotten worse?
I think we've got it pretty good these days! Average life expectancy is up, infant mortality is down, no world wars in the last 50 years, modern medicine is making great advances, literacy rates are up.. etc etc... Maybe you'd like to go back to the middle ages where if you survived the pox, the plauge, and the occasional war, then you were still lucky to see 40.

[GheePup]

Hey Humble, just for your information I believe us atheists are still very low on the belief totem pole here in the US. We are a very small part of the population and have very little affect (not effect) on the political, economic and religious arenas of this country and the world. If we did you would be surprised by how different the world would be.

If you feel threatened by an atheist majority here on TGR then maybe you should go elsewhere. Maybe you shouldn't, I don't care. We are here for skiing and exchanging info about skiing and telling lies about skiing and giving/getting deals on gear and etc. Sorry snowboarders because when I say "skiing" I include you too, I just don't feel the need to write skiing/riding.

Try being an athiest. Tell your family you are an athiest. Try telling your friends you are an athiest. Your co-workers. Just imagine the responses.

PM me if you would like to further disuss atheism...that goes for any of you mags.

[thegnar73]

im not sure who nick and jessica are either, but im pretty sure they arent responsible for centuries of war, corruption, and violations of human rights.

religion is just another man made institution of controll.
do we really belive in a giant invisible man in the sky

random mutation, big bang... ill take imperical logic over blind faith anyday..unless ofoarse that logic is calling for 2-4 inches, my blind faith would expect 12-16...
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