Who voted for Bush/Cheney in '00 or '04?

[Yonder_River]

To keep it fair and balanced...

"21 Rules For Being A Good Republican"

1) You have to believe that the nation's 8-year unprecedented prosperity was
due to the work of Ronald Reagan and George Bush, but that today's gas prices
are all Clinton's fault.

2) You have to believe that those privileged from birth achieve success all
on their own.

3) You have to be against government programs, but expect your Social
Security checks on time.

4) You have to believe that government should stay out of people's lives, yet
you want government to regulate only opposite-gender marriages, what a woman
does with her uterus, and what your official language should be.

5) You have to believe that pollution is OK so long as it makes a profit.

6) You have to believe in prayer in schools, as long as you don't pray to
Allah or Buddha or the Goddess.

7) You have to believe that only your own teenagers are still virgins.

8) You have to believe that a woman cannot be trusted with decisions about
her own body, but that large multi-national corporations should have no
regulation or interference whatsoever.

9) You love Jesus and Jesus loves you and, by the way, Jesus shares your
hatred of AIDS victims, homosexuals, and Bill and Hillary Clinton.

10) You have to believe that society is color-blind and growing up black in
America doesn't diminish your opportunities, but you wouldn't vote for a
black candidate for president.

11) You have to believe that it was great to allow Ken Starr to spend $90
million dollars to attack Clinton because no other U.S. presidents have been
unfaithful to their wives.

12) You have to believe that a waiting period for purchasing a handgun is bad
because quick access to a new firearm is an important concern for all
Americans.

13) You have to believe it is wise to keep condoms out of schools, because we
all know if teenagers don't have condoms they won't have sex.

14) You have to believe that the ACLU is bad because they defend the
Constitution, while the NRA is good because they defend the Constitution.

15) You have to believe that socialism hasn't worked anywhere, and that
Europe doesn't exist.

16) You have to believe the AIDS virus is not important enough to deserve
federal funding proportionate to the resulting death rate and that the public
doesn't need to be educated about it, because if we ignore it, it will go away.

17) You have to believe that biology teachers are corrupting the morals of
6th graders if they teach them the basics of human sexuality, but the Bible,
which is full of sex and violence, is good reading.

18) You have to believe that Chinese communist missiles have killed more
Americans than handguns, alcohol, and tobacco.

19) You have to believe that even though governments have supported the arts
for 5000 years and that most of the great works of Renaissance art were paid
for by governments, our government should shun any such support. After all,
the rich can afford to buy their own and the poor don't need any.

20) You have to believe that the lumber from the last one percent of old
growth U.S. forests is well worth the destruction of those forests and the
extinction of the several species of plants and animals in them because it
allows logging companies to add to their profit margin.

21) You have to believe that we should forgive and pray for Newt Gingrich,
Henry Hyde, and Bob Livingston for their marital infidelities, but that
bastard Clinton should have been impeached.

[Art Shirk]

Just for balance.

Things you have to believe to be a Republican today:

Saddam was a good guy when Reagan armed him, a bad guy when Bush's daddy made war on him, a good guy when Cheney did business with him and a bad guy when Bush needed a "we can't find Bin Laden" diversion.

Trade with Cuba is wrong because the country is communist, but trade with China and Vietnam is vital to a spirit of international harmony.

The United States should get out of the United Nations, and our highest national priority is enforcing UN resolutions against Iraq.

A woman can't be trusted with decisions about her own body, but multinational corporations can make decisions affecting all mankind without regulation.

Jesus loves you, and shares your hatred of homosexuals and Hillary Clinton.

The best way to improve military morale is to praise the troops in speeches while slashing veterans' benefits and combat pay.

If condoms are kept out of schools, adolescents won't have sex.

A good way to fight terrorism is to belittle our longtime allies, then demand their cooperation and money.

Providing health care to all Iraqis is sound policy. Providing health care to all Americans is socialism.

HMOs and insurance companies have the best interests of the public at heart.

Global warming and tobacco's link to cancer are junk science, but creationism should be taught in schools.

A president lying about an extramarital affair is an impeachable offense.

A president lying to enlist support for a war in which thousands die is solid defense policy.

Government should limit itself to the powers named in the Constitution, which include banning gay marriages and censoring the Internet.

The public has a right to know about Hillary's cattle trades, but George Bush's driving record is none of our business.

Being a drug addict is a moral failing and a crime, unless you're a conservative radio host. Then it's an illness, and you need our prayers for your recovery.

You support states' rights, which means Attorney General John Ashcroft can tell states what local voter initiatives they have the right to adopt.

What Bill Clinton did in the 1960s is of vital national interest, but what Bush did in the '80s is irrelevant.

Anyways, commonlaw, when are we going to get together and do some skiing? I think the chairlift discussions would be pretty awesome.

Its too bad, I was just in Mass a few weeks ago...could have picked you up to ski the Loaf with me. Political discussions while on the chair lift are always fun because they have to end sometime

I wonder which little political diatribe came first, the Rep slanted one I posted or the Dem slanted one you posted? I had not seen the later but it doesnt surprise me that it exists.

[MassLiberal]

at the loaf! oh man, I grew up skiing there, I could have shown you the goods.

Oh well, next time I guess.

Plus every single political hack email (such as the two posted above) have their evil twin out there somewhere.

[Art Shirk]

at the loaf! oh man, I grew up skiing there, I could have shown you the goods.

Oh well, next time I guess.

Plus every single political hack email (such as the two posted above) have their evil twin out there somewhere.

I actually went with my friend who went to CVA and grew up there as well. His Dad runs the mountain as well. So, you probably know my buddy or know of him. Snow was a bit poor but the goods were lapped up.

[MassLiberal]

not bad, well, I'm happy that you had a proper tour of the loaf. to bad it wasn't in good form, but hopefully it wasn't 20 below with gale force winds.

oh yeah, the thread, forgot about that, republicans suck

blah blah blah.

[Art Shirk]

not bad, well, I'm happy that you had a proper tour of the loaf. to bad it wasn't in good form, but hopefully it wasn't 20 below with gale force winds.

oh yeah, the thread, forgot about that, republicans suck

blah blah blah.

Apparently, it was one of the worst seasons in 50 years. Oh well, still good to get away, watch the Alpine downhill, have a few drinks (Bode was an ass) and eat my fill of Bag burgers.

Now back to our regularly programmed political "discussion."

Democrats blow and all that stuff.

[Lone Star]

And when was the last time they claimed a terrorist bombing? Please go look it up.

Hamas claims responsibility for killing Israeli kidnap victim

12:32 2005-09-28
Hamas claimed responsibility yesterday for the kidnapping and killing of an Israeli in the West Bank, saying it had intended to ransom him for the release of jailed comrades.

http://newsfromrussia.com/hotspots/2.../28/63914.html

January 13 [2005]: Two Palestinian suicide bombers explode themselves and a truck ladden[sic] with explosives in the Karni crossing - a terminal in the eastern Gaza Strip allowing Palestinian merchants to export goods. At least 6 civilians, all Israelis, were killed and about 10-20 were wounded in the attack..... Palestinian militants launched mortar shells and automatic weapsons fire against ambulances who came to evacuate the wounded and treat the casualties. Fatah's al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades, Hamas and The Popular Resistance Committees claimed joint responsibility.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violenc..._conflict_2005

March 14, 2004: Ten people were killed and 16 wounded in a double suicide bombing in the area of the Ashdod Port. Hamas and Fatah claimed responsibility for the attack.
http://www.adl.org/main_Israel/hamas_attacks.htm

January 17 [2003]: A 34-year-old Israeli was killed when terrorists entered his home near Kiryat Arba, and opened fire. His 5-year-old daughter and two others were wounded. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrori...Israel_in_2003


Well, Likwid, I'm going to have to go with the year 2005. I know that was a long time ago, but seven months isn't long enough for me to believe that they're a bunch of saints now.

I'm curious-Do you believe that there is NO threat that requires ANY action from the US, regarding fundamentalist Islamic terrorism?

[Tippster]

His point was that there haven't been any since they got voted in. Duh.

[gregb22]

i didn't vote either time but i would have voted for bush both times if i registered. hope that makes you feel better

[MassLiberal]

[I]

I'm curious-Do you believe that there is NO threat that requires ANY action from the US, regarding fundamentalist Islamic terrorism?

The problem with responding militarily to islamic fundamentalism is that the attack itself vindicates that very fundamentist ethos, creating a more radical base with a broader appeal to the population. It is impossible to defeat an ideology militarily.

The only exception to this rule is in cases like Afghanistan, where a strong local and nationalist alternative to the taliban existed. The only thing we had to do in that instance was support the northern alliance in order to secure victory.

Now, the question is how do we deal with Islamic Fundementalism. My answer: cease importing oil from the region. Period. If we underwent an apollo project in energy and completely moved our economy away from oil, the transformation in the Middle East would be astounding.

[Lone Star]

His point was that there haven't been any since they got voted in. Duh.

OHHH! OK! Sorry, I'm a bit dense.

Now that they're an elected government, I'm sure they're all swell.

[Cyber Cop]

i didn't vote either time but i would have voted for bush both times if i registered. hope that makes you feel better

If you can't be bothered to participate in this democracy then Shut The Fuck Up. Seriously. Stupid spoiled americans. You Suck

[freshies]

I have posted this before but I am going to do it again...

21 Ways to be a Good Democrat

1. You have to be against capital punishment, but support abortion on demand.

2. You have to believe that businesses create oppression and governments create prosperity.

3. You have to believe that guns in the hands of law-abiding Americans are more of a threat than U.S. nuclear weapons technology in the hands of Chinese and North Korean communists.

4. You have to believe that there was no Art before Federal funding.

5. You have to believe that global temperatures are less affected by cyclical documented changes in the earth's climate and more affected by soccer moms driving SUV's.

6. You have to believe that gender roles are artificial but being homosexual is natural.

7. You have to believe that the AIDS virus is spread by a lack of federal funding.

8. You have to believe that the same teacher who can't teach 4th-graders how to read is somehow qualified to teach those same kids about sex.

9. You have to believe that hunters don't care about nature, but urban activists who have never been outside of San Francisco do.

10. You have to believe that having self-esteem is more important than self-respect or actually doing something to earn it.

11. You have to believe that Mel Gibson spent $25 million of his own money to make The Passion Of The Christ for financial gain only.

12. You have to believe the NRA is bad because it supports certain parts of the Constitution, while the ACLU is good because it attacks certain parts of the Constitution.

13. You have to believe that taxes are too low, but ATM fees are too high.

14. You have to believe that Margaret Sanger and Gloria Steinem are more important to American history than Thomas Jefferson, Gen. Robert E. Lee, and Thomas Edison.

15. You have to believe that standardized tests are racist, but racial quotas and set-asides are not.

16. You have to believe that Hillary Clinton is normal and is a very nice person, and she really loves Bill.

17. You have to believe that the only reason socialism hasn't worked anywhere it's been tried is because the right people haven't been in charge.

18. You have to believe conservatives telling the truth belong in jail, but a liar and a sex offender belonged in the White House.

19. You have to believe that homosexual parades displaying drag, transvestites, and bestiality should be constitutionally protected, and manger scenes at Christmas should be illegal.

20. You have to believe that illegal Democratic Party funding by the Chinese government is somehow in the best interest to the United States. But, complain, that all of our jobs are going out of America to China ?

21. You have to believe that this message is a part of a vast, right wing conspiracy.

This is soo fucking lame and poorly thought out it makes me laugh - hard. who put this together, some HS Young Republicans in Kansas? I love how they resort to the classic boogey man trigger words, like "ACLU" "homosexuals", "hillary" and the bogus "war" on Christmas and Christianity, etc Only dumb-ass country-fucks and under educated people believe these tired-ass, simple-minded stereotypes.

I love how conservative Christians (you know, those in the 80% majority in the US), who essentially control all three branches of government and all the state and local govs in the red states, constantly act as if they are some persecuted minority in this country.

other than that, i did chuckle at a few of these

[Lone Star]

The problem with responding militarily to islamic fundamentalism is that the attack itself vindicates that very fundamentist ethos, creating a more radical base with a broader appeal to the population. It is impossible to defeat an ideology militarily.

Quite true.

Now, the question is how do we deal with Islamic Fundementalism. My answer: cease importing oil from the region. Period. If we underwent an apollo project in energy and completely moved our economy away from oil, the transformation in the Middle East would be astounding.

I like this idea. Unfortunately, I don't believe the American people care as much about terrorism as they do about driving their big fancy SUVs. I read a little blurb somewhere that noted that there are a lot of Muslims in the world who don't like the US very much but that don't resort to violence like these terrorist organizations do. You have to have a pretty hopeless, desperate life to be persuaded to kill yourself for their 'cause.' So, do the conditions, in terms of poverty, that people grow up in have an effect on whether they become terrorists? Will a government that no longer receives billions of dollars of Western money become less oppressive?

I still don't like the idea of defending murderers of innocent people. I think it's important that we understand why they have such passion/hatred for the US.... but excusing terrorist actions because the victims somehow deserved it REALLY PISSES ME THE FUCK RIGHT OFF.

[Art Shirk]

This is soo fucking lame and poorly thought out it makes me laugh - hard. who put this together, some HS Young Republicans in Kansas? I love how they resort to the classic boogey man trigger words, like "ACLU" "homosexuals", "hillary" and the bogus "war" on Christmas and Christianity, etc Only dumb-ass country-fucks and under educated people believe these tired-ass, simple-minded stereotypes.

I love how conservative Christians (you know, those in the 80% majority in the US), who essentially control all three branches of government and all the state and local govs in the red states, constantly act as if they are some persecuted minority in this country.

other than that, i did chuckle at a few of these

Yeah, it is about as bad as its Democrat analog also posted above. Being more conservative than not, I alsways got a good chuckle out of some of the rantings in the one I posted, but after seeing the one Mass Liberal posted, it is apparent that both miss the mark of relevancy. Both parties' characterizations of the ideologies and platforms of the other are muttled and self-serving.

That said, I think it is interesting that the Democratics version is pretty verbose. From a strategic standpoint, substance aside, that is the Democrats downfall. The right has solid, accessible platforms: "No new taxes." The Democratic response is always filled with qualifications seeking idyllic conditions: "Some new taxes when...if...unless..." Democratic political strategists have their hands full in this regard.

[freshies]

That said, I think it is interesting that the Democratics version is pretty verbose. From a strategic standpoint, substance aside, that is the Democrats downfall. The right has solid, accessible platforms: "No new taxes." The Democratic response is always filled with qualifications seeking idyllic conditions: "Some new taxes when...if...unless..." Democratic political strategists have their hands full in this regard.

dude, you are spot-on. seriously. i wanted to reach out into my TV and strangle Kerry half the time for his overly verbose ramblings.....but, see, the problem is that the world is a complex place, and complex issues like tax policy require complex solutions and well thought-out policies that don't easily lend themselves to easily digestable sound-bites. but i agree with you, Rove has been masterful at distilling complex issues into simple sound-bytes and keeping everyone on message....while the Dems hold graduate level policy wonk debates among themselevs...

[homerjay]

dude, you are spot-on. seriously. i wanted to reach out into my TV and strangle Kerry half the time for his overly verbose ramblings.....but, see, the problem is that the world is a complex place, and complex issues like tax policy require complex solutions and well thought-out policies that don't easily lend themselves to easily digestable sound-bites. but i agree with you, Rove has been masterful at distilling complex issues into simple sound-bytes and keeping everyone on message....while the Dems hold graduate level policy wonk debates among themselevs...

Bush's constituency doesn't like big words!

[MassLiberal]

As it should.

The reasons that so many people in the middle east are driven to fundamentalism aren't really too complicated, they are the same reasons that it happens anywhere. Some of the most prevalent among those are:

1) Young Male population, in the Middle east the largest chunk of the population is under 30 and male

2) Repressive governments whose only priority is furthering their own wealth and whom do nothing in order to grow a sane domestic economy. Once the oil runs out, to quote Syriana, they will be riding camels in the desert cutting each others heads off again since they produce NADA.

3) No education. Once again the state is totally geared towards producing profits for those in charge so that they can maintain a huge army to keep them in power.

4) The throne or Government is propped up by the US (at least that is how the public sees it).

The lack of opportunity and eduction drives people to religion in order to alleviate the massive amount of uncertainty in their lives. also the same lack of opportunity leads to aggresison towards the united states, since the ruling party has an iron grip over the security forces, and demonstration against the status quo is useless (especially for the clerics who wield power over the masses, to challenge the state would be suicide, but preaching against the US lets them seem like brave leaders, and is also condoned by them)

Cutting of the inflow of US money will destroy the state, and chances are religion would fill the void. But aggresion towards the US wouldn't last long since the people would be more interested in either fixing their situation (either that or go to cutting each others heads off, which is fine by me, since they will no longer be concerned with us)

[MassLiberal]

dude, you are spot-on. seriously. i wanted to reach out into my TV and strangle Kerry half the time for his overly verbose ramblings.....but, see, the problem is that the world is a complex place, and complex issues like tax policy require complex solutions and well thought-out policies that don't easily lend themselves to easily digestable sound-bites. but i agree with you, Rove has been masterful at distilling complex issues into simple sound-bytes and keeping everyone on message....while the Dems hold graduate level policy wonk debates among themselevs...

Robert Frost said that a liberal is a man who is so broad-minded, he cannot be trusted to stand behind his own argument.

[Art Shirk]

dude, you are spot-on. seriously. i wanted to reach out into my TV and strangle Kerry half the time for his overly verbose ramblings.....but, see, the problem is that the world is a complex place, and complex issues like tax policy require complex solutions and well thought-out policies that don't easily lend themselves to easily digestable sound-bites. but i agree with you, Rove has been masterful at distilling complex issues into simple sound-bytes and keeping everyone on message....while the Dems hold graduate level policy wonk debates among themselevs...

Agreed. The workings of a nation and its government is complex and requires conditions, caveats, and dynamic approaches. The difference is this: The conservers dumb it down to make it accessible (or based upon Homerjay's comments, have no other choice ) and then act as they please. The Dems intellectualize it and then don't even get the chance to make good on the promises or act as they please. Adherence to this will ultimately, most likely, keep the right in power.

[Viva]

Cutting of the inflow of US money will destroy the state, and chances are religion would fill the void. But aggresion towards the US wouldn't last long since the people would be more interested in either fixing their situation (either that or go to cutting each others heads off, which is fine by me, since they will no longer be concerned with us)

You think? I bet China would love all of that excess oil. I bet the Chinese also love seeing how we play our cards militarily.

[MassLiberal]

You think? I bet China would love all of that excess oil. I bet the Chinese also love seeing how we play our cards militarily.

If we are able to completely retool our economy and energy system, let them have it. Demand will have dropped considerably, our future will not be tied to an archaic energy source, and the world will be forced to buy our tech for future development.

[Catbert]

Not sure why you value my opinion - as sometimes I don't value my own. But while not specifically saying that we should just nuke Iraq you seem to be alluding to it. Like perhaps it would be better if we just drop a big one on them and then everything would be better. That maybe Bush is too PC in fighting this war because he should just go all out and kill thousands and thousands of civilians. Maybe I am reading your post wrong but that's the impression it gave to me.

No, not at all. I edited my post, as I am not really for the war in Iraq. I just meant that if we do go into war the way we are, we probably wont get anywhere. If we do have a just reason to fight a war, like if we got nuked, we shouldn't fight the way we are now. I am thinking we should start to pull out but whatever happens, support our troops.

I think my post came off a touch harsher than it should have been.

[Grange]

Big third on Feingold. That guy is the voice of reason and the best thing Wisconsin has ever produced. But I doubt we'll ever have an honest president, cause I'm not that lucky.

Don't forget WI's former Governor and US Senator Gaylord Nelson. He founded Earth Day and had one of the best environmental ethic's around at that time.

[Cyber Cop]

Robert Frost said that a liberal is a man who is so broad-minded, he cannot be trusted to stand behind his own argument.

Nice, I like that.

I would love to hear a good old fashioned "I don't know. I'll think about it." from just one stupid politico. I'm not holding my breath. And while we are on the topic of polarization and stupidity, what about the fucking media tabloid bullshit in this country. I have to watch fucking BBC to get any clue what happened in the world today. Thank god for the Internet, at least the information flows freely around here. $$$$$$$$$$bottomline$$$$$$$. America sold it's democracy chunk by chunk.

edit: page top little bitches.