The Test

[bossass]

Original Freerides VS. Freeride +

Results: Last night when I was switching my touring setup over to the Freeride +, halfway through I realized the best way to test these was one of each. That way the difference would be most obvious. I headed up to Hood. Found it windy and snowing those shitty little ice pellets. I had to shield my face with my hand when any sort of speed was achieved, so I wasn't really paying attention to the two bindings. I ditched my axioms for some Salomon Oasis demo CR Labs and headed to the halfpipe. After all day on those, Foils, and gun labs, it was finally nice out and I brought the big guns back out. I figured the best was to test these was on some variable, and somewhat icey mank and on some chattery groomers.

Bottom line: when I was really charging and laying into the skis, I could tell a difference between the freeride and the plus. With a big wide ski, you can really feel the ski through the binding, toe and heel, better with the plus. You get more vibration, resulting in greater response. The freeride is sort of dead. That said, I still like the original freeride for what it is. The Plus is better, but it's not mind blowing. If I was looking to purchase, and I came across an older pair of freerides for cheap, I'd go that route before shelling out on the plus. But, my reality is I have an absurd quiver, so my touring ski is my touring ski, and I'm probably going to tour on soft snow, not bomb around a resort and rail groomers. It I got rid of them all and only kept one setup, I'd want a touring binder on there, and I'd want the plus. I have yet to try the NX21, so I can't make that comparison.

Edit: Discussion and photos of new mechanism to fix the "insta-tele" problem appear in post #52 of this thread.

Sidenote: God bless Axioms and other old school skis. That metal topsheet holds a screw like a fucking champ. I could probably change these bindings out forever and not strip a hole.

New photo to post, underside of heel.

[This End Up]

they are certainly sexier

[marshalolson]

who is dian??? are they her pro-model? bossass, why are you skiing on woman bindings?

[bossass]

who is dian??? are they her pro-model? bossass, why are you skiing on woman bindings?

Yes......

[PNWbrit]

Bossass - do they use the same screw pattern as the the old models? Looks like just one extra screw on the extended heel plate?

[bossass]

Bossass - do they use the same screw pattern as the the old models? Looks like just one extra screw on the extended heel plate?

Ding, Ding, Ding....



P.S. WTF am I doing, I gotta go skiing.

[PNWbrit]

Thanks

I can feel an early season purchase coming along - I hear they ski great please report back

[Core Shot]

Looks like the only real difference is the locking channels between the plate and the boot heel.
Still, that should help torsional stability.

[PNWbrit]

There's a new heel lock to prevent insta-tele with some kind of spring, forward pressure, flex gadget included.

Word from those who've tried them is they're very much better.

[PeachesN'Cream]

did the DIN go up?


please please please say it went up...

[mojorisin]

it's gone up to 12.5 to better rival those naxos

[PeachesN'Cream]

guess that is a little better.

i'll have to figure which way to go now. the fritchies are stiffer torsionally than the NX21 correct? and looks like these new ones will be even more so?

hummm now if only my ACL were magically 8 months post op... and i had a free 450 bucks... and a pair of skis to mount them on.

[Buster Highmen]

So those are on some axioms, huh?

[mojorisin]

any word if they're raising the prices for next year?

[Slider&BucketO'nails]

Any way I can get my hands on a pair now?

[MnO]

Shit, I don´t understand the guys at Diamir. Are they a bunch of idiots? If they just rang me up I could explain in five minutes how they could radically improve that binding. Once again they have tweaked the original Titanal design to be a bit less bad. I mean, isn´t it like ten years since the launch of the Titanal I? And still they can´t get it torsionally stiff enough. How hard can i be? Plus my ass.

Just send me a mail, Mr Fritschi and I will tell you how to build them.

[PNWbrit]

Yeah fucking idiots.

What a way to run a business not phoning some random swede and asking him to re-design an award winning and market dominating product - Idiots.

Since they won't call you perhaps you should start your own business and dominate the industry.

How do you spell Highwaystar in Swedish?

[bossass]

Results are in at top of thread.

[CantDog]

Bossass, do the + have the same ramp angle as the original freerides?

Could you swap parts from the plus to make a regular freeride a freeride +?

[bio-smear]

It's not obvious from looking at the heelpiece if they fixed what makes them go Insta-Tele. My understanding was that if the positioning of the heelpiece wasn't perfect, to allow for the flex of the ski to pushing the torsion bar backward and out of the lock/climbing bar, you could insta-tele. It doesn't look like they've done anything amazing to change that. It's still up to the shop tech to mount them properly/perfectly to avoid it.

[bossass]

Don't know about the ramp angle. You wouldn't be able to just use the new heel plate with the old ones, cause the heel wouldn't fit in the track. It seems like getting new parts to upgrade would be difficult and not cost effective.

Don't know about insta-tele either. I'll look into that. I heard it was fixed. I'll find out how.

[MnO]

What a way to run a business not phoning some random swede and asking him to re-design an award winning and market dominating product - Idiots.

Ofcourse I was just sarcastic about the calling bit. Irony is difficult to express in a foreign language. "Why didn´t they call me" is an expression we use around here when something new turns out to be somewhat of an dissapointment. It means that they should have checked what the market really wanted before launching a new model. It´s obvious that they have made an effort against more torsional stiffness this time. Creds to that.

However... I´m not a random dude. Neither are most people on this forum. Most people here are more skiers at heart than many people who actually work in the skiing business ever will be. I´m a dedicated skier with a lot of knowledge in material and skis in general. I also have a 5 year long technical university education aimed at product development and I look critically at any gear from my backpack to the dv camcorder to the displays of the skipass gates. Some are good, but most have a clear potential of improvement. I am a former world champion in archery and I am sponsored by a manufacturer who let me be a part of their development of new models. Archery is like skiing a gear focusing sport and I´m very interested in optimizing my gear. My sponsor gains a lot in respect for the products and widens his knowledge by asking the right people.

I spend an average of 80 days every year skiing the type of skiing that the FR binding product is directly aimed at. I consider myself beeing a good representative for the consumer group that Diamir is trying to sell this model to. And so are many of you guys also. And I don´t buy freerides because I think they aren´t good enough. Then something is wrong. Award or no award, I know that problably more than 90% of my skiing friends would never buy it in the current or the plus edition due to lack of performance. There are so many skiers who use and accept the extra weight of Securas and Treckers just because the FR or Naxos isn´t solid enough, but still would be interested in a BC binding if there where one that gave them the same feel and safety as alpine bindings. If Diamir put something significally better to the market they would sell a lot more. They could keep the FR, but make a new heavier and more performance oriented binding. I think that a company like Diamir or any other skiing manufacturer could gain a lot in many aspects by talking to certain people on message boards like this. I mean, if Diamir asked around here for example like this:

"We are going to develop our freeriding concept and need your help. What do you prefer:

1) a beefier DIN 14 bindning that holds up better but is 300 grams heavier due to wider and bigger toe wings and a totally new heavy duty heel piece. This binding will only fit a ski that is 90mm:s wide or more.

or 2) A slightly changed old din 12 FR with some new features like a Salomon Profil crosscountry style bottom plate and supercool new graphics. It´s still a super light binding and therefore you have to accept losses in power transmission. "

Would anyone except pure touring skiers choose the second alternative?

If anyone is interested, here just a short describtion of what I think that Diamir should do:

The problem with the older and also this new freeride heelpiece is that they still use the narrow base connection at the back of the arm. It has only about 3 cm:s of support area. This is way to narrow for this type of moving construction as it never can be made as tight as a alpine binding and it´s also quite high above the ski, producing a high torque force. Since almost noone is using FR:s on skis narrower than 90mm anymore they should use this huge advantage directly into the design. If they made the aluminum arm wide all the way or widening out as it gets close to the heel they could use the ideas of the current heel riser and locking mechanism design, but still gain A LOT of torsion stability by positioning the support areas closer to the edges of the ski. Take the current 3cm:s and make it as wide as possible to fit a 90mm ski or just use two of the existing version side by side with a bigger two-in-one locking unit. Then remake the plastic heelpiece into a beefier one that takes full advantage of the wider platform. Also make some changes on the toe. Add more elasticity to the horisontal release motion bye putting wider wings on the toe piece to make it look more like Salomons or current FKS:s. Add metal or use plastic, but make it clearly more massive than it is now. Overall I think it would be possible to do this and just add maybe 300 grams.

Done.

Result: Me and 90% of my friends would most certainly rethink the decision of not buying FR:s.

[Sphinx]

Since almost noone is using FR:s on skis narrower than 90mm anymore

It's amazing that Fritchi hasn't hired you as their chief engineer!

Your knowledge of Fritchi's market is simply breathtaking.

[hick]

quote MnO,"There are so many skiers who use and accept the extra weight of Securas and Treckers just because the FR or Naxos isn´t solid enough, but still would be interested in a BC binding if there where one that gave them the same feel and safety as alpine bindings. "

OOoohh I can't stand it. I just know everyone is gonna hate me for this. I think Fritchis and naxos and all the touring bindings out there suck! Oh, I feel so much better now. Yes, They are all complete shit IMO. Sorry for the outburst, I am going back to lurking now.

[Toby]

We are going to develop our freeriding concept and need your help. What do you prefer:

1) a beefier DIN 14 bindning that holds up better but is 300 grams heavier due to wider and bigger toe wings and a totally new heavy duty heel piece. This binding will only fit a ski that is 90mm:s wide or more.

Yeah, I believe there is a market for this kind of binding. Quite a few people here would buy that sort of thing. In the meantime I'll remain a Trekker fan. The Naxo nx21 almost fits the bill for me, but not quite. The extra height and extra price turned me off. My 916s and Trekkers cost less than I could find an nx21 for.