NSR--more torture in Iraq

**Rusty Nails** · 03-21-2006, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by Viva

Only if she put it over her head.

C'mon. She's still in that "awkward fawn" stage. She's gonna be a hottie!

**Viva** · 03-21-2006, 02:44 PM

Maybe with a pancake on her head.

**Tippster** · 03-21-2006, 02:44 PM

Sept 1, 1939 - Nazis invade Poland.

Sept 3, 1939 - Britain, France, Australia and New Zealand declare war on Germany.

Sept 4, 1939 - British Royal Air Force attacks the German Navy.

Sept 5, 1939 - United States proclaims neutrality; German troops cross the Vistula River in Poland.

....over two years pass....

Dec 7, 1941 - Japanese bomb Pearl Harbor; Hitler issues the Night and Fog decree.

Dec 8, 1941 - United States and Britain declare war on Japan.

Dec 11, 1941 - Germany declares war on the United States.

**mr_gyptian** · 03-21-2006, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by Tippster

"Yeah."

Iraq under Saddam - terrorist free (for the most part.) Certainly less harboring of terrorists than Iran or even Pakistan.

Iraq after the invasion: Terrorist central. Yeah, that invasion really helped. Give 'em a cause, a country without any centralized government or security force, and a whole ginormous pool of pissed off people. How it is that we learned NOTHING from Gaza is stunning.

NOBODY had a problem with us going after OBL, Al Qaeda, and the Taliban.

BSS: Germany was at war with our allies for years before we joined. Something about a certain Ocean Liner getting blown up. Do your homework - we were willing to let Hitler walk all over Eastern Europe. When he got greedy and invaded the Benelux countries is when the UK, France, and eventually the US started taking umbrage. Don't believe me? Ask the Poles.

Abu Nidal? Abu Abbas? Not exactly small timers. Additionally Saddam was more brazen about his support of Palestinian homicide bombers than Iran is about their support of Hamas. but you're right why should we be so descriminate? Iran and Syria should be a part of the BBQ too.

I think the NYT had a big problem with us going into Afghanistan? Remember Johnny Apple's talk of a quagmire? All the forboding talk of what happened to the Russians in Afghanistan? The British experience in Afghanistan? how quickly we forget.

**Mcwop** · 03-21-2006, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by DaveTV

WTF?

............

**Rusty Nails** · 03-21-2006, 02:48 PM

Hasn't this thread been discussed 8000 times on this board? Looks talk about something new like Jamie Pierre...

**Woodsy** · 03-21-2006, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by Rusty Nails

A nice lookin' lady in a one-piece bogner is great, but hop in a tight racing suit, I don't need to see that shit again.

didja dig my one piece Pioneer seed corn snowmobilesuit at the first summit?

**Rusty Nails** · 03-21-2006, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by Woodsy

didja dig my one piece Pioneer seed corn snowmobilesuit at the first summit?

That was freakin' money! I might be in NYC next month, btw. I'll keep ya posted.

BLOODSWEATSTEEL · 03-21-2006, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by Tippster

Sept 1, 1939 - Nazis invade Poland.

Sept 3, 1939 - Britain, France, Australia and New Zealand declare war on Germany.

Sept 4, 1939 - British Royal Air Force attacks the German Navy.

Sept 5, 1939 - United States proclaims neutrality; German troops cross the Vistula River in Poland.

....over two years pass....

September 11, 1941, the President of the United States publicly declared that he had ordered the American Navy and Air Force to shoot on sight at any German war vessel. In his speech of October 27, 1941, he once more expressly affirmed that this order was in force. Acting under this order, vessels of the American Navy, since early September 1941, have systematically attacked German naval forces.

Dec 7, 1941 - Japanese bomb Pearl Harbor; Hitler issues the Night and Fog decree.

Dec 8, 1941 - United States and Britain declare war on Japan.

Dec 11, 1941 - Germany declares war on the United States.

Fixed. I can cut and paste too.

**Tippster** · 03-21-2006, 02:56 PM

Just supporting my statement that the US waited several years before entering the fray. Facts is facts.

And, I'm done. Thanks for entertaining me during yet another slow news day.

**Cono Este** · 03-21-2006, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by seatosky

Haha this always makes me chuckle. Where would these guys GET uniforms even if they were dumb enough to want to wear them?

The point is, people condem these cases of prisoner abuse based on the rules of war as they are spelled out in the Geneva Convention. And according to that same document, most of these prisoners were in violation of the geneva Convention when they were caught out of uniform. Which means some poor bastard made an exeption for them by not shooting them on the spot, and even further endangered his own life to do so. Why is that document used to protect them and not our own?

You guys have laid your cards out on the table. There are thousands if not millions of untranslated Iraqi documents. In time we will all have a better understanding of what really happened. I will reserve my opnion until then.

here are few

http://abcnews.go.com/International/...1734490&page=2

**Woodsy** · 03-21-2006, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by Rusty Nails

That was freakin' money! I might be in NYC next month, btw. I'll keep ya posted.

I dont eat Pastrami......
but I do drinktoomuch.

**DaveTV** · 03-21-2006, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by mr_gyptian

homicide bombers

Guess we know we you are getting your influence..

**Rusty Nails** · 03-21-2006, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by Cono Este

The point is, people condem these cases of prisoner abuse based on the rules of war as they are spelled out in the Geneva Convention. And according to that same document, most of these prisoners were in violation of the geneva Convention when they were caught out of uniform. Which means some poor bastard made an exeption for them by not shooting them on the spot, and even further endangered his own life to do so. Why is that document used to protect them and not our own?

id=1734490&page=2[/url]

You completely miss the point of the conventions, DoD policy and practice, and legal obligations in general. Prisoner abuse is a violation of the law of war. We abide by the law of war for many reasons already espoused in this thread and many like it. The argument that one bad turn deserves another is silly. Besides, as mentioned, it's not like we are fighting a nation-state with a uniformed army -- WTF do you expect them to wear?

**mr_gyptian** · 03-21-2006, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by DaveTV

Guess we know we you are getting your influence..

hook line and sinker. thanks for biting.

can you hook us up with one of those fancy emoticons? possibly one reeling in a sucker?

**DaveTV** · 03-21-2006, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by mr_gyptian

hook line and sinker. thanks for biting.

can you hook us up with one of those fancy emoticons? possibly one reeling in a sucker?

**pointedem** · 03-21-2006, 03:29 PM

I cannot believe how suprised people are by this.

It is a fucking WAR

fucked up shit hapens during war.

People dont know half of the horrible shit that happens.

open yer eyes folks

**Cono Este** · 03-21-2006, 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by Rusty Nails

You completely miss the point of the conventions, DoD policy and practice, and legal obligations in general. Prisoner abuse is a violation of the law of war. We abide by the law of war for many reasons already espoused in this thread and many like it. The argument that one bad turn deserves another is silly. Besides, as mentioned, it's not like we are fighting a nation-state with a uniformed army -- WTF do you expect them to wear?

I didnt say one justified the other. Show me where i did.

I just said that many of these prisoners could have been shot on the battlefield in Afghanistan with their ak-47's in their hands. But somebody did something stupid and took them prisoner instead, now we get to have these silly debates about paintgun wars and loud music.

I am glad to see every soldier go to jail who abuses a prisoner. My point is that no respect is paid to the added danger our soldiers face while fighting people who do not take prisoners, do not wear uniforms and hide behind civilians. Most prisoners we have, based on how they were captured are not entitled to many rights. That is their fckn problem.

Umless you want to write some new rules for the head chopping, civilian hiding, non uniformed combatent? Is that what you want?

**Rusty Nails** · 03-21-2006, 03:55 PM

Okay, I would just argue that they are entitled to more rights than you think via DoD policy and customary international law and just because they possessed an AK-47 would not entitle a soldier to shoot them.

Originally Posted by Cono Este

I didnt say one justified the other. Show me where i did.

I just said that many of these prisoners could have been shot on the battlefield in Afghanistan with their ak-47's in their hands. But somebody did something stupid and took them prisoner instead, now we get to have these silly debates about paintgun wars and loud music.

I am glad to see every soldier go to jail who abuses a prisoner. My point is that no respect is paid to the added danger our soldiers face while fighting people who do not take prisoners, do not wear uniforms and hide behind civilians. Most prisoners we have, based on how they were captured are not entitled to many rights. That is their fckn problem.

**Jim S** · 03-21-2006, 03:57 PM

What color(s) were the paintballs?

**Rusty Nails** · 03-21-2006, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by Jim S

What color(s) were the paintballs?

Swedish.

**Jim S** · 03-21-2006, 04:04 PM

Not meatballs, silly.

Were they red, white, and blue?

**cj001f** · 03-21-2006, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by Rusty Nails

Swedish.

Being "plastered" by naked blonde virgins would be torture

**Cono Este** · 03-21-2006, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by Rusty Nails

Okay, I would just argue that they are entitled to more rights than you think via DoD policy and customary international law and just because they possessed an AK-47 would not entitle a soldier to shoot them.

Rusty, could you imagine walking around Afghansitan or Iraq as a US soldier. If you are captured you almost certainly going to be tortured, starved and beheaded. And you want to focus on wether the dude with the rusty Ak pointed at you, dressed like everyone else, had real bullets in his gun before you shot him. I am all for holding ourselves to a higher standard, but are you freakin serious? Man I feel sorry for our men and women in uniform.