NSR--more torture in Iraq

**seatosky** · 03-21-2006, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by Cono Este

For example, none of these fckers wear unifroms. Kinda makes it hard to play by the rules and stay alive at the same time.

Haha this always makes me chuckle. Where would these guys GET uniforms even if they were dumb enough to want to wear them?

**creaker** · 03-21-2006, 01:26 PM

Here's what I know: Every morning when I drop my son off at school I see a kid whose Mom was a stewardess on one of the planes that hit the towers. She's ok now but I wish you were at her mom's service.

The people responsible for that infiltrated our system with no resistance because we don't want to trample on certain rights. Does 9/11 strike you as a fair price to pay? Stop spouting canned ideology and use some common sense.

**seatosky** · 03-21-2006, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by creaker

Here's what I know: Every morning when I drop my son off at school I see a kid whose Mom was a stewardess on one of the planes that hit the towers. She's ok now but I wish you were at her mom's service.

And OBL is still running around somewhere free as a bird....

**mr_gyptian** · 03-21-2006, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by Monique

No, it's only the NAME that has changed. brother.

Under Saddam Hussein's government, Iraq invaded a country that hadn't attacked it; detained uncharged, undocumented prisoners for years without legal counsel or contact with their families; secretly spied on citizens suspected of dissent and anti-government activities; paid the military to torture and brutalize people to the point of death to get information; and rewarded loyalists and cronies with appointed positions and billions of dollars in government contracts.

Under George Bush's government, the U.S. has invaded a country that hasn't attacked it; detained uncharged, undocumented prisoners for years without legal counsel or contact with their families; secretly spied on citizens suspected of dissent and anti-government activities; paid the military to torture and brutalize people to the point of death to get information; and rewarded loyalists and cronies with appointed positions and billions of dollars in government contracts.

whew, good one. you're leaving some stuff out, though.

you see we have charged and convicted people like Charles Graner, not promoted them to cabinet level positions. The prisoners aren't held on US soil therefore their right to be charged...well isn't a right. They are not soldiers from a recognized state, so they aren't accorded rights under the Geneva accords. They are terrorists afforded no rights. They can rot for all I care. Not one prisoner has died at Gitmo. Where's your outrage for Slobodan Milosevic's untimely death? Because soldiers in our military have tortured prisoners is not the same as being paid to torture.

nuance, Monique, nuance.

**Rusty Nails** · 03-21-2006, 01:35 PM

Jurisdictionally, the Supreme Court actually already stated that Guantanamo is US territory. Hence why cases like Rasul, Hamdi and Hamdan were working their way through U.S. Federal Court. Might want to re-check some of your facts Mr. G.

**rotorhead** · 03-21-2006, 01:41 PM

Dr Gaper
On behalf of those of us in the military. That was a fucked up thing to say

**Dr. Gaper** · 03-21-2006, 01:42 PM

This thread = torture.

**Tippster** · 03-21-2006, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by creaker

Does 9/11 strike you as a fair price to pay? Stop spouting canned ideology and use some common sense.

It's the price you pay for Freedom, so in a word - yes. I'll do everything necessary to avoid a repeat, as long as it doesn't impinge on the rights we're trying to protect. That's what makes the Patriot Act so obscene in the eyes of so many.

The "well they do it" excuse doesn't work on the Kindergarten level, why should it on an International level?

Why are you so willing to sell out your core beliefs for some ephemeral sense of security? Are there any guarantees that we're truly "safer" if we do as asked - sell out our way of life? Who really wins if we do?

You ski - an inherently dangerous sport. How would you like someone to make it illegal using the excuse that they're only looking out for your safety?

**Dr. Gaper** · 03-21-2006, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by rotorhead

Dr Gaper
On behalf of those of us in the military. That was a fucked up thing to say

It was sarcasm . . . to us.

Gospel to most.

**mr_gyptian** · 03-21-2006, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by Rusty Nails

Jurisdictionally, the Supreme Court actually already stated that Guantanamo is US territory. Hence why cases like Rasul, Hamdi and Hamdan were working their way through U.S. Federal Court. Might want to re-check some of your facts Mr. G.

Gitmo isn't the only prison I was speaking of. my apologies.

**creaker** · 03-21-2006, 01:55 PM

[QUOTE=Tippster]It's the price you pay for Freedom, so in a word - yes. I'll do everything necessary to avoid a repeat, as long as it doesn't impinge on the rights we're trying to protect. That's what makes the Patriot Act so obscene in the eyes of so many.

The "well they do it" excuse doesn't work on the Kindergarten level, why should it on an International level?

Why are you so willing to sell out your core beliefs for some ephemeral sense of security? Are there any guarantees that we're truly "safer" if we do as asked - sell out our way of life? Who really wins if we do?

You ski - an inherently dangerous sport. How would you like someone to make it illegal using the excuse that they're only looking out for your safety?

Nice to know you'd take another 9/11 as long as we don't wiretap anyone. That makes good sense.

My core beliefs are clearly not the same as yours. I'm not doing anything wrong so frankly they can sneak around my house all they want.

There will never be any widespread agreement on this stuff. But I'm right and you're a weenie.

**Dexter Rutecki** · 03-21-2006, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by creaker

Here's what I know: Every morning when I drop my son off at school I see a kid whose Mom was a stewardess on one of the planes that hit the towers. She's ok now but I wish you were at her mom's service.

The people responsible for that infiltrated our system with no resistance because we don't want to trample on certain rights. Does 9/11 strike you as a fair price to pay? Stop spouting canned ideology and use some common sense.

To say that the people responsible for 9/11 succeeded because of our respect for human rights or due process is complete bullshit. Stop spouting canned Bushisms and wake the fuck up.
Some of us affected by 9/11 don't need contrived wars to make us feel better.

**smolakian** · 03-21-2006, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by creaker

I'm not doing anything wrong so frankly they can sneak around my house all they want.

Wow. Thats the dumbest thing I've seen on here so far.

These threads are soo damn repetative....I think I'm done posting for the day.

**nealric** · 03-21-2006, 02:04 PM

Nice to know you'd take another 9/11 as long as we don't wiretap anyone. That makes good sense.

I will take another 9/11 over invading another country.

Weve already offered up over 2,000 of our own and caused countless more deaths of civilians in Iraq because 3,000 people died here. I garuntee more than 3,000 U.S. soldiers will be dead by the time we get out of Iraq.

By the numbers, we might as well have just let them bomb us again.

**Core Shot** · 03-21-2006, 02:06 PM

Why is this thread titled "more torture in Iraq" as if this just happened.

Why do you say "it's happening right now, and will continue to happen" and then provide no evidence that this is the case? Citing what happened in 2004 really does not prove your point.

More details of "torture" from 2004 is hardly cause for a lengthy cut and paste except for the fact that it allows you to wallow in your own bitterness and hatred for one of the dumbest presidents ever.

Paintballs? go for it
Loud music? who the fuck cares
small cells that smell of urine? ohhh, thats eXXXtreme torture.
Yelling? are you fucking kidding me?

Yes, the over the line shit has and should continue to be rooted out. Your own post indicates a number of folks were prosecuted or discharged.

None of this shit is new.
Get over it.

**Tippster** · 03-21-2006, 02:07 PM

Wait, I'm the one that's willing to risk getting blown up so I can go to sleep knowing Big Brother isn't watching me...... and I'M the weenie?

Keep sucking that "safety" teat and see where it gets you. All lambs get slaughtered sooner or later.

BLOODSWEATSTEEL · 03-21-2006, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by smolakian

Wow. Thats the dumbest thing I've seen on here so far.

Nope....... but almost.

Originally Posted by nealric

I will take another 9/11 over invading another country.

**Viva** · 03-21-2006, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by creaker

Stop spouting canned ideology and use some common sense.

Oh Allah the merciful, listen to you!

Perhaps if the CIA, the FBI, and the White House had used a little more commom sense, the events of 091101 would have easily been thwarted.

Regardless, the ends can be accomplished through different means. That's my belief.

**cj001f** · 03-21-2006, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by BLOODSWEATSTEEL

Nope....... but almost.

heh, so we've saved more lives and money by invading Iraq? Numbers don't look that way

**CUBUCK** · 03-21-2006, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by nealric

I will take another 9/11 over invading another country.

Weve already offered up over 2,000 of our own and caused countless more deaths of civilians in Iraq because 3,000 people died here. I garuntee more than 3,000 U.S. soldiers will be dead by the time we get out of Iraq.

By the numbers, we might as well have just let them bomb us again.

Good idea dude. We should kill 3,500 citizens every what 5 or 10 years in this country just to keep a group of extremists halfway around the world happy.

BLOODSWEATSTEEL · 03-21-2006, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by Viva

Perhaps if the CIA, the FBI, and the White House had used a little more commom sense, the events of 091101 would have easily been thwarted.

Which brings us back to Clinton, the Sudan, Operation Able Danger, blah, blah......

It never ends.

**Monique** · 03-21-2006, 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by mr_gyptian

Because soldiers in our military have tortured prisoners is not the same as being paid to torture.

nuance, Monique, nuance.

Thank you for your incisive, sophisticated and ever-so-nuanced clarification.

bullshit, mr_gyptian, bullshit.

**CUBUCK** · 03-21-2006, 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by cj001f

heh, so we've saved more lives and money by invading Iraq? Numbers don't look that way

At what point does it become worthwhile to do something

After it happens twice? three times?

**smolakian** · 03-21-2006, 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by BLOODSWEATSTEEL

Which brings us back to Clinton, the Sudan, Operation Able Danger, blah, blah......

It never ends.

The wheel is turning
and you can't slow down
You can't let go
and you can't hold on
You can't go back
and you can't stand still
If the thunder don't get you
then the lightning will

OK...now I'm done posting.