Intuition liner pain

[lemon boy]

chup, maybe you just don't need to crank your buckles down quite so much?

[marshalolson]

good point. the better support/fit means not as tight of buckling. i tend to barely buckle my lower 2. pretty much tight enough so they don;t open while skiing...

[El Chupacabra]

chup, maybe you just don't need to crank your buckles down quite so much?

The lower two (on the foot) are on the first notch. Plenty tight right there, and I can open/close the buckles with my ski pole basket.

The upper two (on the leg) -- the lower of them is on the second notch (snug, not uncomfortable); the upper is on the third notch (w/ Booster directly on the liner -- also not uncomfortable).

The pain is mainly from the foot being very tight, and from the boot feeling like it doesn't flex forward like it used to. The Intuition liner is a lot stiffer flexing than I expected.

[Sinecure]

pardon the intrusion... I've been looking into Intuitions too... and I seem to recall them saying they can be re"baked" 2 or 3 times and then they shrink / get hard... true? and if so, could that be at work here?

It should be more like 5-6 times if they are the same as the snowboard ones. Here's a decent how-to on cooking/molding them (note: Alpine SB boots are basically the same as Ski Boots for this conversation - they have way more lateral flex than ski boots but that doesn't matter in this context). LINK HERE - oh, and he sells liners but only in the great white north

[mild hijack] ... and above it was mentioned that the intuitions are thinner than "normal" liners... if I have to run my boots near last buckle notch now, will I be able to use intuitions? [/mild hijack]

YMMV, but I've just straight swapped before. After molding, they may be a bit firmer than regular liners.

did you mold them with some toe caps?

YES, this is a good idea. Neoprene toe caps work best, but your method is probably fine.

also ski without a footbed for the first day or so to let them pack out

NO NO NO. Mold them w/ your footbed in there and ski it that way.

Maybe reheat with the buckles tighter (to help pack the liner thinner)

Not a good idea, IMO. You'll end up with a boot that you can't get tight enough when you want it tight.

***********

El Chup: There are lots of shops in the area that can do the work if you give up on the home method. The last time I had Intuition liners (then called Raichle in my Alpine SB boots) molded was at Surefoot at Squaw when I had them make me footbeds. They did a good job. They do pack out after a few days. In fact, I eventually added some padding around the heels. Since I bought footbeds from them, Surefoot did the molding in exchange for a six pack. Elite Feet at Squaw Creek also has the oven to mold them and a couple of great guys to do work (Brian and Christian are awesome).

There are loads of threads over on www.bomberonline.com forums. Over there, search for Thermoflex in addition to Intuition - they are still known as Thermoflex in the SB community for the most part (it was a Raichle TM, I think).

[seanpistol]

does anybody know if footloose in mammoth is able to mold the intuitions?

[BLOODSWEATSTEEL]

:drumroll:

...........Why don't you call them and ask?

[Wild4umlauts]

Intuition uses the Ultralon EVA foam which is the stiffest thermo-type foam I've come across (much stiffer than the original Raichle Thermoflex stuff). Also, when heated the Ultralon foam expands a heck of a lot more and it can be tough to get them formed correctly with your foot in the boot.

A few tips:
1. Heat them for 10 minutes at 275 in your oven (on a couple layers of foil to prevent the rack from burning them).
2. You really don't need to tape your footbed to your foot and actually I recommend you don't. Why? This let's you put the footbed into the liner after you pull it from the oven and make sure that the footbed is properly lined up in the liner (seam down the center in the bottom / heel about 1" below the ankle area).
3. Definitely use some kind of toe caps to make sure you have wiggle room. If you have 6th toe issues you should cut your toe caps a bit longer to the outside of your foot so that they cover the 6th toe area.
4. DON'T bang your heel back into the pocket. This is one of the biggest mistakes. Doing this actually ends up giving you a looser heel pocket. The better method is to put your toes up on top of a 2x4, then face a wall and push against it driving your heel back and down hard. Try to hold this position for at least the first few minutes while the liner is cooling. Don't wiggle around much and don't flex too far forward.
5. Try to set your buckles at exactly the mid-point of their adjustment range. This will compress the liner enough that it will fit into the shell nicely and still leave enough adjustment to crank down the boot if necessary.

[cold_smoke]

Wild4umlauts is wise....
First of all NEVER buy used intuitions, the initial new fit is critical (take a look at them out of the box). I personally thought it was pretty much a one shot deal, and you could re-cook them if you needed later refinement for the same boot/foot, but I could be wrong on that.
I would strongly recommend a good boot fitter who has experience with them. Getting them on and in the boot with the footbeds with everything sitting right is tough.
The first 7-10 days they were so increadibly tight I did not think I could deal with them, but they soon became perfect. Definitely go 1 size smaller on your liner then the shell size you have (25 liner into a 26 shell), they won't pack out as much, and go just snug (middle range) on the buckles when molding.
I banged back my heel and it still feels tight but I'll remember that in the future...

[Jim S]

el Chucab,

I feel your pain. I have Intuitions which were shaped for me by Bud at Snowind. I have likes and dislikes with them and I posted them on a previous thread which I had bumped. I now have about 8 days on them. They do get better and break in over time but I am not totally thrilled with the discomfort or lack of comfort. Performance is very good (light and quick) and they are warmer and much stiffer than my stock Nordica Beast (05/06)liners.

I used to ski with my Beasts on the stiffest setting and now they are almost on the softest.

I may go to Elite Feet at Squaw and get refitted if they don't improve in a few days.

[manderson]

I'm curious if the size of the Intuition liner may have something to do with how tight they fit. I saw these liners sell over in the gear swap. You said they were a size 12 liner but you put them in a 27 or 28 shell.

If I understand these liners properly they become almost like a liquid when you heat them. They will basically take any shape you want them to. So if you stuffed a larger liner in a smaller shell wouldn't all that extra material need to go somewhere? Woudln't that cause the boot to be unbearably tight?

I'm just trying to learn everything I can about these liners before I throw down the cash for a pair.