NSR - I HATE activists!!!

[Spats]

It makes us feel good to say "Everyone and every source is biased", because it lets us be smug and skeptical about everything -- conveniently removing any obligation to get off our fat butts and fix problems. It's a lot easier to sit on the couch (or at the keyboard) and make fun of people.

Unfortunately, truth and reality are under no obligation to disappear when we argue against them. As Philip K. Dick once said, "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."

[freshies]

An interesting article that makes Mora look like a lone crusader. There was much buzz about it the day it came out. He actually had serious allies and support, but the White House surrounded itself with hacks. The best thing the article does is point out in layman's terms that law was being ignored and cast aside after decades of precedent, custom and practice.

Yoo, Bybee, Gonzales, Beaver, Haynes -- absolute failures in legal reasoning. They are the reason behind McCain's torture legislation. Still cannot believe we are not applying Common Article 3 as a standard. It will be interesting to see how many people are indicted in foreign courts for criminal violations of international law (specifically CA3).

Still, I think Glademaster referred to continuing war crimes (systematic) in Afghanistan and that is what he was called out on. Still waiting to hear more on that.

yet another conserative that was marginalized (like powell, etc) because they didn't fall into lock-step with this administration and their blatant disregard for the constitution and the truth....

[watersnowdirt]

It makes us feel good to say "Everyone and every source is biased", because it lets us be smug and skeptical about everything -- conveniently removing any obligation to get off our fat butts and fix problems. It's a lot easier to sit on the couch (or at the keyboard) and make fun of people.

Unfortunately, truth and reality are under no obligation to disappear when we argue against them. As Philip K. Dick once said, "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."

Really well put, Spats. I've found for a long time that for people - and I'm sure I've been guilty of it to - it's very easy to try to discredit something simply so you don't have to face it.

[Cono Este]

Good Article Freshies.

My point in calling out Glademaster was to point out that many people make these accusations without proof. Maybe in some circles it is "cool" to do so, but those types of allegations travel very far and are very damaging. You better be 100% certain before you do so. And if there is any doubt what so ever, I would hope an American would reserve such comments. I do not see that happening, and Glademaster was caught red handed.

This issue of isolated prisoner abuse is undeniable. I do not have a problem with debating that. I will admit that my standards are a little different from most peoples though, as they are for anyone who has had a couple close calls with a terrorists bomb.

I just hope we are all on the same team again one day. Because the rest of the world is chuckling at our mistakes and our vicious debates. Most of them dont give a rats ass about us, never have and never will.

[MassLiberal]

dude, yes sarcasm was being laid on pretty thick on my last post

[MassLiberal]

I'm not so sure they are chuckling about our vicious debates, as that is what makes us such a great country.

Another interesting point in this whole argument is that in general, people's political affiliations are ingrained in the emotional parts of the brain, not the logical. So when an individual is presented with evidence that counters a politically held belief, even if that evidence totally discredits said belief they generally lack the ability to comprehend it logically, and it illicits an emotional reponse which causes the person to discard that argument. There have been numerous studies about this recently. All pretty interesting.

[summit]

OK! Delayed by work and skiing, here is the long overdue compliment: Moron Right Wing Activists

---------------

THAT DIRTY LIBERAL MEDIA!
For decades, a particular movement has been banging the “liberal media” drum. Oh, the cries ring out! (but only if the story happens to go against their political interests) What a great counter argument… anything they say bad about us is motivated by the media’s politics…

But what was the goal of these valiant defenders of truth? To make the media more centrist or better yet unbiased? Why of course not! It would be much better to try and create a conservative bias… to you know… counterbalance everything… or something… so now you can watch FOXNEWS Bill O’Reilly interview Jack Bauer on what it is like to be “a conservative in that liberal hedonist world of Hollywood.” Never seen CNN Larry King interview titled “what is it like to be a liberal science teacher in rural Texas?”
Next, maybe we can work on fixing that nasty liberal bias in talk radio…

(This rant has nothing to do with my personal opinions on the worthlessness of much of the media)

RADICAL PRO-LIFE ACTIVISTS
These people disagree with you. You sought/perform/even think about supporting abortion. Therefore they will (roll dice):
1. Firebomb your workplace
2. Shoot you and your friends… to you know… protest murder?
3. Protest in front of your house at all hours
4. Threaten your family
5. Vandalize your property
6. Send you white powder letters labeled as “ANTHRAX”
That was easy. I don’t know how I can possibly make these morons look any worse through ridicule. Simply stating their modus operandi is enough! Hell, most of their own movement has disowned them… they fit in the same box as ALF/ELF/PETA for crime and radical harassment in their activism (except they’ve actually succeeded in killing people).

THE ADMINISTRATION IS ALWAYS RIGHT! (ALWAYS!)
Anything (ANYTHING!) that might be considered a mistake is either, “OK because the administration is doing ____,” or more commonly “didn’t happen that way” (see liberal media), or “it was actually not their fault because ________.”
This mindset seems most commonly espoused by one-issue activists who could care less about things going wrong as long as their pet cause is being supported. The mindset is also fed by the attitude of the administration themselves that they NEVER make a mistake and they are doing everything as best as is possible. While that mindset is very common amongst politicians, it seems especially prevalent now. They transform the tiniest criticism into an action of disloyalty as though the one objection calls into question *everything* they’ve ever done. As with most moron activists, it becomes a “You are either (entirely) with us or you are (entirely) against us” argument! Much like the Blame-America-For-Everything activists, a little discussion will reveal these people to be the epitome of accepting what their club tells them without question.

I could have said a lot more here but this one could easily dominate the entire discussion, I hope it won’t. It is just not worth it.


PC… Patriotic Correctness!
“French Fries? FRENCH FRIES??? You traitor!!! Those are AMERICAN FRIES”
Holy crap! I love to make fun of the French as much as anyone, but the people whose idea of patriotic activism is to impose politically correct patriotic speech patterns on others… and they can’t even keep their activist mouths shut in other countries:
Scene: Mexico Beach Resort
American PC Activist: “I’d like an order of American Toast.”
Mexican Waiter: “Que?”
American PC Activist: “American Toast! I want American Toast. It is a simple request!”
Mexican Waiter: “!?!????”
My dad: “Senor he means French Toast.”
Mexican Waiter: “Si! Si!”
American PC Activist: “You sir, are un-American!”
My dad: “My being a retired veteran with twenty years in the US Airforce says otherwise. Would you like to discuss your opinion further outside?”
American PC Activist: “Uh….. I’m just gonna eat my American Toast and enjoy my vacation.”
For further reference see: Iranians Rename “Danish Pastry” to “Rose of Allah”

CREATION SCIENTISTS/NEO-CREATIONALISTS
(Neo-Creationism better known as Intelligent Design)
Oh where to even start with these people. You’ll never meet a “scientist” that is farther from the scientific method. Their faith is not a problem; they have every right to it! Their underhanded methods to attempt to have their faith injected into public education using campaigns of disinformation and completely unscientific attacks on any science that runs up against their faith is the problem. They have a problem with understanding exactly what science is.

Real Scientific Method:
1. Observe nature
2. Hypothesize reasons behind observation
3. Experiment/Collect Data to test hypothesis
4. Analyze Data
5. Conclusion: Determine validity of hypothesis based on analysis of all available data, modify hypothesis accordingly. Repeat.

Creation Science Scientific Method (One variation):
1. Observe Bible and Draw Conclusion
2. Experiment/Collect Data on any opposing idea
3. Create explanation to reject some data and point out a few unknowns
4. Claim this completely invalidates entire opposing idea
5. Conclusion is right by default. All done!

Creation Science Scientific Method (Another variation):
1. Observe Bible and Draw Conclusion
2. Find/create evidence to support conclusion
3. Create explanation to reject any data that goes against conclusion
4. Data Supports Conclusion! All done!

The way these types debate is truly atrocious. FEMA should have had these people for PR spinsters. Their argument style is:
1. Attack “the JUST-A-THEORY of evolution” . (Never mind that The Theory of Gravity is *just-a-theory* too)
2. Use strawman arguments. For example claiming that abiogenisis is part of evolution and therefore that makes evolution poorly supported. They redefine evolution as necessary in order to cast doubt.
3. Highlighting gaps in understanding or minor inconsistencies in the literature of biology, then say what can and cannot happen in biological systems.
4. Quote out of context to point out minor disagreements but present them as a large crisis. They fail to realize that the “great disagreement” amongst scientists isn’t about whether evolution is reality, but rather some of the details as to how and why.
5. Never provide evidence to support their own “science.” They win by default.

Then they run stealth candidates for boards of education. Once elected, these candidates suddenly have a new agenda to change the education standards away from evolution. For reference: Kansas, Ohio, Georgia, Pennsylvania all in the last 7 years. When the public realizes they’ve been had, they have consistently removed most of these activists from their positions.

These activists are worse than a Jehovas Witness because they aren’t just at your door telling you what to believe, they are trying to undermine the teaching of knowledge and/or mandate having someone else teach their faith for them.

----

Whew!

[Cono Este]

I'm not so sure they are chuckling about our vicious debates, as that is what makes us such a great country.

Another interesting point in this whole argument is that in general, people's political affiliations are ingrained in the emotional parts of the brain, not the logical. So when an individual is presented with evidence that counters a politically held belief, even if that evidence totally discredits said belief they generally lack the ability to comprehend it logically, and it illicits an emotional reponse which causes the person to discard that argument. There have been numerous studies about this recently. All pretty interesting.

In many ways we have become our own worst enemy. wether it is the lunacy of the right, the left, the religous, or harmning the enviorment, if you take a step back right now, it all looks like anarchy to me.

Dont think that rest of the world is not enjoying every minute of it. Those that cannot get a greencard, love to hate us. And in my opinion the behaviour of both political extremes has been very damaging.

i agree with your psyco analysis though.

[MassLiberal]

True that, I try my hardest to stay away from the emotional aspects of the debate. But it's really difficult sometimes, especially when one has skin in the game, or past experiences which have a heavy hand in forming an opinion. While it's good to have a passion about something, it's counter-productive if the passion blinds you to a reality. It's crazy because both sides point fingers and accuse the other of being blind and muddled in the emotion of their argument, while at the same time feeling the warmth of their own self induced moral superiority.

[Mrs Roo]

Animal Rights Activists - on par with pro-life extremists. Cunts should submit themselves for scientific experimentations, prefably for kinesiology testing.

edg

I need some more control subjects.

[edg]

I need some more control subjects.

I had to look that up in one of those big word books. I feel ensmarted now (Obviously I should take up Greek). I also learnt that you're a kinesiologist

edg

[Mrs Roo]

I had to look that up in one of those big word books. I feel ensmarted now (Obviously I should take up Greek). I also learnt that you're a kinesiologist

edg

Be very afraid.

Are you volunteering?

[edg]

Be very afraid.

Are you volunteering?

Oh I dunno, sounds like it would require me moving from infront of the tele...

edg

[Steven S. Dallas]

You obviously have no clue what lawyers do... If you give faulty advice, it is MALPRACTICE, not an opinion. He provided contrived legal analysis that fit a political agenda instead of a honestly researched analysis of the law.

Ding ding ding!

Rusty gets an A+ in Professional Responsibility. Bybee gets the gas face for suggesting, among other things, that the President has complete control over the conduct of war (in contravention of Art. I Sec. 8) and that the Congress has never made a statement of values vis-a-vis the practice of torture (ignoring the adoption of the Geneva Convention and the CAT, which has language stating that no circumstances, no matter how extenuating, justify torture). Mora was forced out and Bybee's on the 9th circuit, so it looks like they both knew what they were doing, right?

[leroy jenkins]

I didn't read this thread, but I think its clear we need to organize and do something about this imiediatly.

[LegoSkier]

Example No. 1: Sorry, no. The people who brought you the Boston Tea Party were a bunch of miscreants. They dressed up and trashed someone else's property. It was all in the name protesting taxes...taxes that they didn't have to pay. The "tea tax" was absorbed by the exporting companies, not the colonists themselves. Basically, a bunch of people were angry and broke stuff. They were rioters, no less. Frankly, the whole thing was an act of criminal vandalism that, over time, has been romanticized as patriotism by people who don't know better because they're just repeating what they heard and want to think.

Actually, that makes them very much activists. Remember Dec. 3rd 1964: "There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can't take part; you can't even passively take part, and you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop. And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all! " - Mario Savio.
Vandalism is activism. Crime is activism. War is activism. It may not be the the most effective form of activism (at least in my book) but it is a form. Activism is all about going outside the rules and norms of society. It is all about doing what is unacceptable to the majority. Agree with them or not, we need activists to remind us every day of the tenuousness of our society. We need these animals at the gate to remind us of the dark forest beyond. Summit is right, many are brainwashed and are just doing what they are doing to try and feel a part of some group and to belong to some meaning. They are stupid, ignorant, arrogant, and annoying. And I love them for what they do. Right or left, this intellectual noise they produce keeps our society balanced and on its toes. They are the underlying passion that leads us away from grey stagnation. Thats the thing. The middle path, moderation if you will, is the correct path but if everybody actually followed this middle path, our society would die a slow quiet death of fetid stillness. The middle path must be reached by the fire interacting with the ice, the black with the white, the ying with the yang. Extremists must meet and argue and fight and somewhere in the sparks of their irrational swords the truth will be found.

[white]

If anyone has ever lived in Colorado Springs, I'm sure something similar to the following situation has happened to you:

I'm loading my car to skip school and drive through a snowstorm to catch a much anticipated pow-day when I'm approached by a well-groomed young man, my age (21) perhaps, who asks me if I could spare a second. I tell him I getting ready to go skiing but If he could make it quick I'd be happy to. (I was very cordial). He said that depended on my response. (oh shit i thought, I just opened the proverbial can).

He asked me: "If you were to get in that car and veer off the Loveland Pass and crash to your death tonight would you be happy with the way you lived your life and do you feel that you'd go to heaven?". I knew exactly where he was going so I halted the sermon and partially out of anger, (how dare he?) partially out of fear (how'd he know I was driving to A-basin?)

I fired back:
"How dare you suggest such a horrific incident. God would be ashamed of you for confronting me in such a manor. My ideas about heaven and hell are far too complex for you to understand and I'm not wasting my time explaining them to someone who will contradict the teachings of the good book that they swear by and disregard another human being." I turned and walked to my car and as I was getting in I said: "And to answer your question: Yes, I am very happy with the way I live my life. Believe it or not, I respect your opinions and I hope that someday you will learn do to the same and when that day comes, maybe you too can truly feel good about your life."

He was stunned.

I've got more of theses stories if anybody wants to jab about this stuff. Philosophy is my second hobby next to snowboarding. I'd rather not bog down the forum though ,so let me know and i'll get you my e-mail...

[Steven S. Dallas]

Sorry, no. The people who brought you the Boston Tea Party were a bunch of miscreants. They dressed up and trashed someone else's property. It was all in the name protesting taxes...taxes that they didn't have to pay. The "tea tax" was absorbed by the exporting companies, not the colonists themselves.

No, it was absorbed by the British government. The Tea Act, which was designed to save the East India Company from bankruptcy, basically gave the EIC a North American monopoly and the colonists a price break on tea by exempting the EIC from paying export duty to Parliament on tea shipped to the US. But the tax on tea (the Townshend Duty) in the colonies remained, and it was this tax that the colonists objected to as one that was devised to raise revenue for a government in which the colonists had no hand. Lord North thought he could buy off the colonists by giving them cheaper tea, but they saw through the purpose of the Tea Act and gave him a big ol' fuck you.

Besides, I'm sure it was insured.

[summit]

NOBODY READ THE RIGHT WING CONSPIRACY POST? ANYONE? ANYONE? BUELLER?