It's not like their freaking Geze or EssVar

**bdog** · 03-08-2006, 12:45 PM

Interesting ... not one "Tech Talk Jong". Good discussion on Markers. I have a wonderful scar on my Right shoulder thanks to a Marker pre release and resulting anterior sub luxation and rotator injury. That was on stock twin cam M51's. Even with that issue binding the green spring or race stock bindings did not have twin cam or, as mentioned upward release. The current Marker toes seem to be considerably less prone to pre release. Still, I prefer Salomon S 914 or 916's.

**Tippster** · 03-08-2006, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by EPSkis

Raced on MRR's for many, many years & never had a single problem with them. Had several pairs other pairs of Markers as well, and can't think of a SINGLE pre-release.

Maybe racing & moguls aren't "aggressive" enough. Shit, I should hucked some 80 footers to test 'em out. Oh well.

Dude. The upward releasing toe didn't come out 'til 91, I think.

**yooper** · 03-08-2006, 01:09 PM

I think a good portion of Marker hate comes from the early days of the full spectrum release.... The "logic" toe piece or whatever it was. When it first came out, if your bindings were set on, say, 10 then the upward release was only 6 or something much less. I don't believe that is the case anymore. I had a pair of the Logic's back in '97 or so and they absolutely DID pre release. Even though I get deals through V/T/M, the next year I switched to Salomon. I never really warmed up to them either. Never liked the toe piece wings and height adjustment. They always seemed to get sloppy.
When the 1400 series came out, I switched back to Marker and haven't had any problems. I have a couple of pairs of 1800's too, which are the only ones I really trust for a few seasons of use. The 1400's work great for at least 80-100 days, but the 1800's are bombproof, and DON'T have any upward release at the toe.

As for "do a search, Markers are not for agressive skiing" Give me a freakin break..... I wanna ski with some of you rock stars that can't seem to stay in Markers. Maybe I just need to re-evaluate what is considered "aggressive skiing", but I doubt it.

**yooper** · 03-08-2006, 01:13 PM

By the way, the aerial dude whose skis flew off..... Jeff Bean, was on P18's.

**Max Gosey** · 03-08-2006, 01:14 PM

There's a clip in the movie where they show him finishing a Skier-X race, throwing the goggles and kicking off the ski. I had always wondered how he did that and then began to think with this thread "hey... maybe he had markers..." He was spancered by marker at one point so it seems to make sense. Can you do that with other binders? Doesn't seem like... Was it some fancy McConkey trick, or is it because of the Markers?

**Dside11-11** · 03-08-2006, 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by Evil E

i almost beat the rep with the ski i was so pissed.

If it was the same rep that I am thinking of, that would not be hard to do.

I know a promising junior racer who skis Marker's 18-spring binders and had prerelease issues with them at 17 DIN. The kid is 5'6" and 135lbs!

My hatred for Markers burns deep inside my soul.

**Dside11-11** · 03-08-2006, 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by Max Gosey

There's a clip in the movie where they show him finishing a Skier-X race, throwing the goggles and kicking off the ski. I had always wondered how he did that and then began to think with this thread "hey... maybe he had markers..." He was spancered by marker at one point so it seems to make sense. Can you do that with other binders? Doesn't seem like... Was it some fancy McConkey trick, or is it because of the Markers?

No, in all fairness, any binding will do that. But still, Markers gargle balls.

**lemon boy** · 03-08-2006, 04:55 PM

you guys should get some proper bindings that just don't release.

**ridefree** · 03-08-2006, 05:28 PM

I just fell off the chair after watching the "Mr. Bean Ski Ejection Show". Dude, you are in the olympics remember???

**72Twenty** · 03-08-2006, 05:53 PM

I have a pair of ESS VAR's and they kick ass.

**Buzzworthy** · 03-08-2006, 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by bdog

That was on stock twin cam M51's.

My old bindings that my wife currently grooms the cordory on.

Note to self: Buy new bindings for wife.

**zhing zhing** · 03-08-2006, 09:13 PM

It's not just the toe piece. The design of the heel piece directs more pressure forward, whch reduces the threshhold of tolerance in the toe piece. Alas, pre-release is really a release at the right limit. It's a design flaw from the heel and the two working together, not the toe alone, which was actually a good design ten+ yrs ago.

Check out other bindings with vertical toe release. They don't have the same issues as the Marker. The old Geze and Look bindings, the new Look/Rossi updated turntables, and perhaps even the new Look/Rossi without the turntables...the pressure of the rear binding is more downward than forward, holding the boot to the ski, not cramming it forward into the toe piece.

I raced on Markers back in the day and blame my first ACL on them. I immediately switched to Looks on the advice of my surgeon and still use Look/Rossi bindings. Never had a binding issue since. I don't even think about bindings when skiing, which is how it is supposed to be.

Yes...Markers suck.

**yooper** · 03-08-2006, 09:21 PM

You blame your first acl on them??? Let me get this straight..... do they pre-release or not release at all? Did you blow an acl on a pre-release? Are surgeons the new ski equipment experts? I notice no one has responded to the fact that the double aerial ejection was look p18's.

MT · 03-08-2006, 09:28 PM

Originally Posted by beb42000

I know i'm inviting this, but really, what's with all the hatin' towards Marker. I've been on them for 16 yrs and never a problem on any type of terrain from coast to coast! I want hard proof to back up your slackadasical comments: ie- pics

No wonder you like the Roundhouse/Chalet.

**gonzo** · 03-08-2006, 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by yooper

Are surgeons the new ski equipment experts?

Uhhh...I don't know about you, but I'm a dentist.

**beb42000** · 03-09-2006, 04:04 PM

i never said I like Roundhouse or chalet. At least they don't bad mouth the competitors though. It's one thing to do it here...but in a place of buisness is poor at best and it makes you look weak. You can sell people on positive without trashing your opponents(marker, roundhouse/chalet, whoever) it's bad buisness, and as some would say, "the low road". MT, if that's your style...then so be it, but eventually it will catch up with you.
As for marker, 16 years and not one pre-ejaculation.

MT · 03-09-2006, 04:10 PM

Does that mean that I'll be in Scotland before you?

**beb42000** · 03-09-2006, 04:39 PM

going to visit your clan, are you

MT · 03-09-2006, 04:50 PM

Since you implied that I apparently took a turn down "the low road" as you call it, I was referring to the chorus below:

Oh! ye'll take the high road and
I'll take the low road,
And I'll be in Scotland afore ye;
But me and my true love
Will never meet again
On the bonnie, bonnie banks of Loch Lomond.

Sorry you didn't pick up on that one.

**beb42000** · 03-09-2006, 04:52 PM

i actually thought you hacked into my computer and saw what I was looking at the time. I'm actually planning some backpacking over there in the future. Freaked me all out!

**Tippster** · 03-09-2006, 05:10 PM

I'm still waiting on whose Geze and Ess-VAR we're talking about, seeing "It's not like their freaking Geze or EssVar...."

**beb42000** · 03-09-2006, 05:28 PM

Ok, I actually like essvars...not to sure about them since atomic took over, but I'm real surprized with the Geze response. The last two years they were geze(before Rossi took over) the heel pieces on almost everyone I torque checked busted off...hense geze selling out to Rossi. Geze lost too much to keep going and Rossi wanted to hook up with somebody like Volkl. Dosen't anybody remember the 58's,61's,68's,71's,78's, and the whole PGM series exploding recalls. We worked on commision and everytime one of those bindings came through the door we were obligated as a Geze supplier to inform the customer of the recall, which geze would reimburse them within one year for a new pair and after that year they were shit outta luck! We made out as salesmen. I'm sure Rossi turned it around, but I know alot of shops wouldn't carry them for awhile...including the one I worked for. The geze rep said that they got a bad batch of plastic and with heating and freezing temps. the plastic would fail. Not sure if that was it, but that sure was the problem we were running into. EssVar's were actually bomber with the low profile and cement for release, but I always thought they were on the heavy side and always opted for the Markers.

I will admit the old full spectrum idea is shit for agressive skiers, but the new comp free is, I think one of the best bindings on the market. The titanium is rock steady and the release problems have been corrected...have any of you guys hatin' Marker tried them?

**ShawnB** · 03-09-2006, 07:20 PM

Marker's upward release toepiece sure does suck, buuuut... As zhing zhing said, that ain't the end of the story on Marker prerelease suckitude.

I done did a li'l experiment: I got immediate prerelease issues after switching to some sticks that came w/ Markers, and naturally blamed it on the toe. So I tapped

a few new holes

into the existing plate and set up some ol' reliable Sollies that never EVER prereleased in the face of years of poorly-planned backseat huck and flip landings. Setup looked great, sorta frankenstein-ey mismatched toe and heel pieces, blah blah. BUT, weirdly enough, IT DID NOT SOLVE THE PRERELEASE PROBLEM.

Repeatedly, after landing a huck in soft pow, if I've been in the backseat or have underrotated a frontie, I end up standing there upright without one or both skis. Same perfectly acceptable landings as in the past, but no skis to git on down the mountain with. WTF: THE MARKER CURSE HAS NOW INFECTED MY PERFECTLY GOOD HUCK-PROOF old SOLLIES!

No. Something else is at work here, and the best I can figure is that when the ski flexes very deeply (as in a backseat, ride-yer-tails-fer-a-spell landing) the heelpiece slides waaay back along its rail, and THEN, when the ski recambers quick-like, the heelpiece can't track back fast enough w/ the boot and voila, you have a gap. And when there's a gap, we just OOPS! walk out of our skis, leaving no evidence of binding release at either toe OR heel. And when we walk out of our skis and there's no evidence of actual binding release, we look at our f@##ing Marker bindings and blame f@##ing Marker. And we SHOULD. This sh*t is reediculous, yo.

What do I have to do next, bolt them heels down in thar track?