The Red Scare continues.

[Magnoe]

Of course it's life.

What we're talking about here is viable cellular construct that undergoes a genetic reorganization and begins dividing rapidly. Them cells is alive.

Someone else brought up the notion of what is human and I think that that's a better starting point than simply stating the obvious.

When sould that be? Is it really at e24 when there's a rudimentary nervous system in place? Later, when that nervous system is capable of a response to external stimuli? Is there a way to assess cognition in utero? Perhaps this is where we ought to define the onset of "humaness"

That's a good post. You're right. It still doesn't change the time table in the minds of my wife and I but this is obviously subjective to each person.

[seatosky]

I'm not a bad person because I interpret a document different from you. I'm a bad person because I ski on skis with a waist smaller than 78MM

So true, so true.

[PNWbrit]

Wait a minute, here. I have stated that I would love to see a compromise in this whole arena. Personally, my wife and I would not do the morning after pill. But it sure beats the heck out of an abortion at 4 months.

Guys... and gals. I would LOVE to find compromises.

We're kind of going in circles and you're exactly right. If I don't believe in it, then don't do it.

But let's go back to the beginning of this whole thread. If I believe the correct interpretation of the constitution is that it protects "life", and in my mind a fetus is considered a "life" and thus protected, how could I NOT support the anti-abortion movement.

We're going full circle but it really comes down to how each of us believes the constitution should be interpreted. I'm not a bad person because I interpret a document different from you. I'm a bad person because I ski on skis with a waist smaller than 78MM

There doesn't seem to be any compromise in your view? You want the SC to impose your morals on the rest of society.

Please let us know when you and your wife will be adopting a child born to a victim of rape or incest.

[SquawFag]

I love you mang. I'll see you on the flipside. Just stop the heavy petting.

SQUAWKFAG!!!!!!!!!!!!! SQQQUUUAAAAAWWKK!!!!!!!!!

[Cyber Cop]

SQUAWKFAG!!!!!!!!!!!!! SQQQUUUAAAAAWWKK!!!!!!!!!

Dude, you love a good re-run don't you?

Dude, you love a good re-run don't you?

Attachment 10789

[Cyber Cop]

squawfag is cybercop.
squawfag is cybercop.

[SquawFag]

Dude, you love a good re-run don't you?

Dude, you love a good re-run don't you?

Attachment 10789

Guess again SQUAWKFAG!!!!!!!!!!!

[SquawFag]

squawfag is cybercop.
squawfag is cybercop.

HI NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERD!!!!!!!!!
I'VE BEEN TRYING TO REACH YOU BY P.M. NOW FOR 2 DAYS BUT YOU ARE TOO CHICKEN TO CLEAR YOUR BOX

WHAT'S THE MATTER NERD?

CAN GIVE IT BUT CAN'T TAKE IT?

WELCOME TO YOUR NEXT 6 MONTHS IN HELL

I ESPECIALLY LIKE THE SURF FORUM

YOU REAP WHAT YOU SEW

cease and desist or get it thrown back at you

your choice, NEEEEEEEEEEEEEERD

[Buster Highmen]

You will not be able to change my mind (and vice versa) on this. ....

OK

What we CAN do, though, is find a middle ground and try to minimize the situations that call for an abortion. Neither the extreme right nor the extreme left want to find a compromise. Unfortunately that leaves about 80% of American in the middle stuck with a "damned if I do, damned if I don't" situation.

I know I'm st00pid, but how can we find a middle ground if one side refuses to budge?

This is silly. Sadly silly, but just silly nonetheless.

I just fail to understand how in this divisive situation that some people feel so strongly about foisting their beliefs on others.

[Cyber Cop]

lol. cool. I guess this means you like me. Know in advance I will abort the little bastard.

[Cyber Cop]

HI NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERD!!!!!!!!!
I'VE BEEN TRYING TO REACH YOU BY P.M. NOW FOR 2 DAYS BUT YOU ARE TOO CHICKEN TO CLEAR YOUR BOX

WHAT'S THE MATTER NERD?

CAN GIVE IT BUT CAN'T TAKE IT?

WELCOME TO YOUR NEXT 6 MONTHS IN HELL

I ESPECIALLY LIKE THE SURF FORUM

YOU REAP WHAT YOU SEW

cease and desist or get it thrown back at you

your choice, NEEEEEEEEEEEEEERD

Attachment 10794

BTW... I got you one of these. Thought you might need it for the next six months. I read your letter to Alice.

Dear Alice,

I HAVE BEEN THINKING ABOUT PURCHASING A PENIS ENLARGEMENT PUMP. ARE THERE ANY PROBLEMS WITH THEM AND DO THEY WORK. IF SO, WHAT KIND DO YOU RECOMMEND?

SIGNED
SMALL PENIS THAT WANTS TO GET BIGGER



Dear SMALL PENIS THAT WANTS TO GET BIGGER,

A penis enlargement pump was designed to help men whose erections are not strong, or not as strong as they used to be, to enable them to engage in intercourse. This is a satisfactory solution for some men. (If the pump is not used correctly, however, there can be loss of sensation, loss of penile skin, and even gangrene.)

If you are having trouble with erections, and this is a problem for you, Alice recommends that you see a urologist who can check, among other things, your blood flow. If your penis size is a problem for you, that is another issue entirely. The pump is only a temporary solution to small penis size. After the pumping, the penis will return to its regular size. Alice recommends that you read Q & As that relate to penis size in Alice's Sexuality archives.

Alice

[MeatPuppet]

What about the vast fortunes made from the labor of the poor?

It really depends. Were the poor forced at gun point to go to work? If so then I have a problem with that. But if the poor choose to go to work, and were compensated for their labor, then I don't see the problem.

I guess the common laboror has no role in generating wealth?

(Edit: for clarity. The common laboror is, ultimately, the source of most wealth.) Most of the wealth that exist's in this world came(at the root level) from the common laboror; who was compensated for his efforts.

Yes, the CEO "Earned" that 20 mil.?

I think the better question is wether that $20 mil CEO is worth $20 mil. The simple answer...he is worth whatever someone is willing to pay him for his experties. Value is created by a persons willingness to pay "X" amount for his services. It's the most basic economics.

Check this out as concerns wealth distribution. http://www.epinet.org/content.cfm/we...shots_05272004

Yeah, interesting. I don't have a problem with corporate profits. There is no "fairness" or equality of outcome in the free market, nor should there be.

[MeatPuppet]

Because "it has always been that way" doesn't make it right. How can you claim to care so much for a single life that has yet to even begin, and in the same breath so callously dismiss the horrendous suffering of millions of already living people? Unbelievable.

I'm trying to be very precise here and that could lead to misunderstandings. I haven't expressed any opinions about the poor or their plight. Only their relationship(or lack of one) to the rich.

There is this insidious attitude that many people seem to have that says that the poor of the world are suffering because the rich of the world have not helped them. I strongly disagree with that sentement.
I was pointing out that the poor have been with us since the beginning of time, they are not a product of the rich. Nothing more.

[Cono Este]

Heh. To Jail.... right.

The Chinese will look at your US DoJ goons and ignore the fuck outta them.

And getting insulting is fun. Funner than this thread, at least.

Poopyhead.

I forgot to add that 3 of them are Dual citizens.

I am sorry you refer to the DOJ as "goons". I will save this for another thread one day, but our country is being so fuckin abused right now, these people laught themselves to sleep when we stretch our arms out to welcome them here. It is the same diff in thinking that has fucked us so hard in Iraq. More on that later though.

hammerhead

[bklyn]

Not at all. Most of the wealth that exist's in this world came(at the root level) from common laboror; who was compensated for his efforts.

Not true. Most of the wealth historically comes from the common laborer, who is not compensated at all (slave labor - a major building block of the wealth of the USA) or minimally (look at the label in your clothes and shoes and check the country of origin).

A large percentage of that workforce is women, who will have to raise more children than she can handle because abortion is illegal and unsafe. But that's another topic.

[CUBUCK]

Not true. Most of the wealth historically comes from the common laborer, who is not compensated at all (slave labor - a major building block of the wealth of the USA) or minimally (look at the label in your clothes and shoes and check the country of origin).

A large percentage of that workforce is women, who will have to raise more children than she can handle because abortion is illegal and unsafe. But that's another topic.

I am not trying to bait but it would be neat to see some statistics from either side.

[MeatPuppet]

In the end I have no problem with the wealth generated by capitalism. I do have a problem with the mindset that you owe nothing to society.

In a free market you cannot take money from people(unless you are the government ), they can only give it to you in exchange for goods or services. When these transactions take place, both parties are satisfied with the exchange, otherwise neither side would have parted with their goods or their money. So if someone is able to make deals with enough people, and please enough people for the person to accumulate millions of dollars, that means that tens of thousands of people are satisfied with the exchange that took place. Is society not served by this? Why then is something more owed by the person on the money-recieving end of that transaction? It was, by definition, an equal exchange. So why does only one side of the transaction "owe" something to someone not involved in the transaction? Please explain this to me.

if we are truley moral and ethical beings???

Ahhh, this is the crux of the matter isn't it? But also the impass. Morals and ethics vary from person to person and culture to culture. What some might call cruel, others might call compassionate, and vise versa.

[MeatPuppet]

Not true. Most of the wealth historically comes from the common laborer, who is not compensated at all (slave labor - a major building block of the wealth of the USA)

Historically, yes. But I like to think that we learn from our mistakes. I'm not supporting past practices, only the free market as it exist's today.

or minimally (look at the label in your clothes and shoes and check the country of origin).

It may be minimally by our standards, but the factory workers in Bangladesh, or China, or India are earning more in the American owned factories than they would be if our factories weren't there. So it's a net increase. I really can't see this as anything but good. Do you?

[Tippster]

Have you guys ever looked at your hand? I mean REALLY looked?

Amazing, huh?






And Cubuck, I was led to believe that one of the lovely items in our new era of "Tax Reform" is the fact that dividends are no longer taxed on the Federal Level.

What did you spend your hundreds of "saved" tax $$ on?

[Cyber Cop]

It was, by definition, an equal exchange.

Was it? Were both parties in this transaction on equal footing when making this deal?

It may be minimally by our standards, but the factory workers in Bangladesh, or China, or India are earning more in the American owned factories than they would be if our factories weren't there. So it's a net increase. I really can't see this as anything but good. Do you?

Have you ever seen a machiladora across the border? Do you really think this is better than the local economic systems that have maintained families for generations?

Friend, history does matter. Believe it.

[cj001f]

Friend, history does matter.

Fool. Just look at the Middle East, Northern Ireland, France/Algeria, India/Pakistan, China/Tibet/Taiwan. Clearly the world is a Tabla Rasa.

[Cono Este]

Have you guys ever looked at your hand? I mean REALLY looked?

Amazing, huh?






And Cubuck, I was led to believe that one of the lovely items in our new era of "Tax Reform" is the fact that dividends are no longer taxed on the Federal Level.

What did you spend your hundreds of "saved" tax $$ on?

Dividends are taxed twice. Once at the companies year end and twice when it is paid to shareholders. How would youlike to pay taxes on your income and then have the govt tax it again when you gave your kids an allowance or your wife something? It also discourages companies from paying one in the first place. Other countries do not tax the same income twice.

Tell me, why should anyone have to pay taxes twice?

It should be eliminated.

[CUBUCK]

And Cubuck, I was led to believe that one of the lovely items in our new era of "Tax Reform" is the fact that dividends are no longer taxed on the Federal Level.

What did you spend your hundreds of "saved" tax $$ on?

I'm pretty sure you are wrong here. The rate dropped from being taxed at ordinary income levels to 15% and 5% for those in the lowest income brackets.

Unfortunetly, I don't make my living off of dividends.

[MassLiberal]

Dividends are taxed twice. Once at the companies year end and twice when it is paid to shareholders. How would youlike to pay taxes on your income and then have the govt tax it again when you gave your kids an allowance or your wife something? It also discourages companies from paying one in the first place. Other countries do not tax the same income twice.

Nice straw man argument there, try something a little more relevent.

Dividends are income that an investor has done NO LABOR to recieve. yes, ivestors take risks (as I am an investor, I know), but more often than not those are pretty safe bets.

[CUBUCK]

Nice straw man argument there, try something a little more relevent.

Dividends are income that an investor has done NO LABOR to recieve. yes, ivestors take risks (as I am an investor, I know), but more often than not those are pretty safe bets.

no labor? Probably true, I doubt those people built the offices etc. But they are being compensated for their risk tolerance. By heavily taxing dividends and capital gains you take away any incentive to invest in future technologies and innovative businesses. Why take the risk if you aren't rewarded for it.