The Red Scare continues.

[iceman]

In the end I have no problem with the wealth generated by capitalism. I do have a problem with the mindset that you owe nothing to society. A country that can generate this type of wealth can feed, clothe and care for its own, all of them, if we are truley moral and ethical beings???

Well, you can be a real dick sometimes, but when you're right you're right.

[Cono Este]

In the end I have no problem with the wealth generated by capitalism. I do have a problem with the mindset that you owe nothing to society. A country that can generate this type of wealth can feed, clothe and care for its own, all of them, if we are truley moral and ethical beings???

capatislm is a meatgrinder. If you are lucky enough not to get slaughtered and you pay all of your taxes, you dont owe much else to anybody. Because afterwards you will have learned that just about everybody, and especially the govt, tried to rip you off and generally ruin you. With the exception of the dot.com millionaires, very few have an easy time doing it. And some, if given the chance to do it over again, would have kept their jobs working the silverado chair at squaw.

Now Trustafarians, thats a whole new arguement. But people who "earn" it dont owe anybody an explanation.

Your arguement is better served discussing inheirted wealth vs. earned income. i for one think it is disgusting that soembody who earns their money pays more in taxes than someone who simply inheirits.

[Cyber Cop]

Well, you can be a real dick sometimes, but when you're right you're right.

iceman is cyber cop.

[avacadotoast]

capatislm is a meatgrinder. If you are lucky enough not to get slaughtered

Exactly!! So the ones who and get slaughtered deserve nothing?

How about the ones who are lucky give a little back to the system/society that created them...in the end it'll fuel the economy and make life better for everyone (including themselves) anyway...

[Cono Este]

Exactly!! So the ones who and get slaughtered deserve nothing?

How about the ones who are lucky give a little back to the system/society that created them...in the end it'll fuel the economy and make life better for everyone (including themselves) anyway...

They do. They pay millions in taxes. Roughly half, if it came to them as income. What, you want more? 2/3, 3/4??

[subtle plague]

hey what's the big deal ? to me it seems this fits quite neatly
you already got a president who once was elected by the minority,
maintain an above the law holiday camp on a carribean island,
20% of your fellow citizens live in poverty while 5% possess 80% of the wealth and now you complain about some chicks getting unwanted children ?

[Cono Este]

This thread is a classic. You guys start off on the abortion debate, discussing a persons right to choose, freedom," keep your moral righteousness away from me", and now you are in here discussing wealth redistribution and how a minority of people "owe" something to others and as Cyber Cop says "that if we are truely moral and ethical people" we should force others to give to others. Freakin Classic!!!

You guys are awesome.

I wish I had time to cut and paste it all. Its a keeper.

[Lurch]

If this thread goes on much longer it's going to start looking like Tele Tips in here.

[Tippster]

They do. They pay millions in taxes. Roughly half, if it came to them as income. What, you want more? 2/3, 3/4??

Oh you poor disillusioned fool. if you think the wealthy actually pay their alloted share in taxes then I wonder who dropped you when you were little.

Does the term "tax shelter" mean anything to you? Do you have one? How about off-shore accounts or a dividend-based salary? I don't, and I'm fucking waaaaay above the poverty line. My Father-in-law, however, has 3 big houses, several (5) Corvettes, Commercial properties, 2 pensions and is the CEO of a $5M/year hobby-turned-company. He'll be the first to tell you his "Income" is less than mine, and be proud of being able to play the system in that fashion.

I'll bet you that any 5 of the posters in this thread pay more in income tax than the Trumps of this world.

[natty dread]

It's not easy and I apologize to those who have felt defensive because I appear to be "right wing" on this.

"Appear" to be right wing? You've got to be kidding me--you support a law that outlaws abortion from the moment of conception without an exception for rape or incest. You can't get any more right wing than that. You can talk about compassion, pulling kids out of the gutter, and education all you want, but all that talk does not make you a moderate. Extreme pro-lifers always bring up these issues; it helps obscure the fact that they would "love" (your word) to have a law that forces women to keep a pregnancy that results from rape or incest.

[Cono Este]

Oh you poor disillusioned fool. if you think the wealthy actually pay their alloted share in taxes then I wonder who dropped you when you were little.

Does the term "tax shelter" mean anything to you? Do you have one? How about off-shore accounts or a dividend-based salary? I don't, and I'm fucking waaaaay above the poverty line. My Father-in-law, however, has 3 big houses, several (5) Corvettes, Commercial properties, 2 pensions and is the CEO of a $5M/year hobby-turned-company. He'll be the first to tell you his "Income" is less than mine, and be proud of being able to play the system in that fashion.

I'll bet you that any 5 of the posters in this thread pay more in income tax than the Trumps of this world.

Settle down there big guy, I think you are above insults. If you read my post, I said "if they recieve that money as income" Income while a general term, in my example meant salary. Im not talking Ken Lay, he is the exeption. And as a US citizen you are required to report foreign income, so unless you committing tax fraud, or concealing assets in off shore accounts they do not help. But yes, too many people get away with it. In fact I am working with the Justice dept right now trying to recover money that was stolen from me and hidden in Hong KONG. I am about to send a half a dozen chinese business men to jail for fraud and corruption. I know all about it and I think with my most recent experience, and my job general experience I will know more than you ever will.

I am gald you are going to inherit all that money. Since you are waay above the poverty line, will you give it to those in need?

control yourself please.

[Tippster]

Heh. To Jail.... right.

The Chinese will look at your US DoJ goons and ignore the fuck outta them.

And getting insulting is fun. Funner than this thread, at least.

Poopyhead.

[Schmear]

This thread is a classic.

The only things missing are a Journey song and---oops, too late:

PENNE WITH SMOKED TROUT AND SUGAR SNAP PEAS

1 lb penne rigate
3/4 lb sugar snap peas, trimmed and halved diagonally
2/3 cup heavy cream
1 (1/2-lb) whole smoked trout, head, skin, bones, and tail discarded and flesh coarsely flaked
1 tablespoon finely grated fresh lemon zest
1/4 cup chopped fresh dill
1/2 teaspoon salt
1/2 teaspoon black pepper

Cook pasta in a large pot of boiling salted water 2 minutes less than package instructions indicate, then add sugar snaps and cook until sugar snaps are tender, about 2 minutes more. Reserve 1/4 cup cooking water, then drain pasta and sugar snaps in a colander and return to pot.

Boil cream in a 1- to 1 1/2-quart heavy saucepan, uncovered, 2 minutes, then add to pasta along with trout, zest, reserved cooking water, dill, salt, and pepper and toss until combined.

Makes 4 main-course servings.

[Buster Highmen]

Is Cono tonghands?

[Magnoe]

"Appear" to be right wing? You've got to be kidding me--you support a law that outlaws abortion from the moment of conception without an exception for rape or incest. You can't get any more right wing than that. You can talk about compassion, pulling kids out of the gutter, and education all you want, but all that talk does not make you a moderate. Extreme pro-lifers always bring up these issues; it helps obscure the fact that they would "love" (your word) to have a law that forces women to keep a pregnancy that results from rape or incest.

Natty, you are correct that I'm conservative in those areas. But labeling me as a right wing conservative is false overall. This is just one subject and I am conservative in that one area.

You will not be able to change my mind (and vice versa) on this. I believe that a fetus is a life. A life that needs to be protected. A pregnant rape victim is an atrocity. But destroying a fetus (in my mind it is a baby) is worse in my own moral system.

Let's not get caught up in hostility between the two sides. That resolves nothing. What we CAN do, though, is find a middle ground and try to minimize the situations that call for an abortion. Neither the extreme right nor the extreme left want to find a compromise. Unfortunately that leaves about 80% of American in the middle stuck with a "damned if I do, damned if I don't" situation.

[seatosky]

A pregnant rape victim is an atrocity. But destroying a fetus (in my mind it is a baby) is worse in my own moral system.

And nobody would ever force you or your partner to have an abortion.

[PNWbrit]

A pregnant rape victim is an atrocity.

I really hope you didn't mean to say that?

A law that flat out prevents that woman terminating a preganancy - and by your standards even the morning after pill would be illegal - is the atrocity and probably almost as much of an injustice as the rape itself.

You're probably right that we won't change your mind though - which is sad.

Can we get back to Cono's chinese mafia story now?

[Magnoe]

And nobody would ever force you or your partner to have an abortion.

We're kind of going in circles and you're exactly right. If I don't believe in it, then don't do it.

But let's go back to the beginning of this whole thread. If I believe the correct interpretation of the constitution is that it protects "life", and in my mind a fetus is considered a "life" and thus protected, how could I NOT support the anti-abortion movement.

We're going full circle but it really comes down to how each of us believes the constitution should be interpreted. I'm not a bad person because I interpret a document different from you. I'm a bad person because I ski on skis with a waist smaller than 78MM

[Magnoe]

I really hope you didn't mean to say that?

A law that flat out prevents that woman terminating a preganancy - and by your standards even the morning after pill would be illegal - is the atrocity and probably almost as much of an injustice as the rape itself.

You're probably right that we won't change your mind though - which is sad.

Can we get back to Cono's chinese mafia story now?

Wait a minute, here. I have stated that I would love to see a compromise in this whole arena. Personally, my wife and I would not do the morning after pill. But it sure beats the heck out of an abortion at 4 months.

Guys... and gals. I would LOVE to find compromises.

[Cyber Cop]

Guys... and gals. I would LOVE to find compromises.

Group hug on page 9. Stay tuned.

[Village Idiot]

Group hug on page 9. Stay tuned.

Not if I can help it DICKBAG.

[Magnoe]

Group hug on page 9. Stay tuned.

Only if abstinence is taught before the hug... ok, condoms too.

[CUBUCK]

Oh you poor disillusioned fool. if you think the wealthy actually pay their alloted share in taxes then I wonder who dropped you when you were little.

Does the term "tax shelter" mean anything to you? Do you have one? How about off-shore accounts or a dividend-based salary? I don't, and I'm fucking waaaaay above the poverty line. My Father-in-law, however, has 3 big houses, several (5) Corvettes, Commercial properties, 2 pensions and is the CEO of a $5M/year hobby-turned-company. He'll be the first to tell you his "Income" is less than mine, and be proud of being able to play the system in that fashion.

I'll bet you that any 5 of the posters in this thread pay more in income tax than the Trumps of this world.

Keep in mind that Dividend income is taxed twice. Once at the Corporate level and then again at a personal level. Yes the personal level ilikely lower than the person's income tax bracket but because it is being double taxed I would be surprised if these people really come out ahead as much as you would like to believe.

[Viva]

...and in my mind a fetus is considered a "life" and thus protected, how could I NOT support the anti-abortion movement.

Of course it's life.

What we're talking about here is viable cellular construct that undergoes a genetic reorganization and begins dividing rapidly. Them cells is alive.

Someone else brought up the notion of what is human and I think that that's a better starting point than simply stating the obvious.

When should that be? Is it really at week 24 when there's a rudimentary nervous system in place? Later, when that nervous system is capable of a response to external stimuli (if it isn't already)? Is there a way to assess cognition in utero? Perhaps this is where we ought to define the onset of "humaness"

Edited for clarity

[Cyber Cop]

Not if I can help it DICKBAG.

I love you mang. I'll see you on the flipside. Just stop the heavy petting.