The Red Scare continues.

[MeatPuppet]

key word: YET.

I'm taking your tone to mean "Meatpuppet didn't get any in high school, and he is still pissed!"

LOL! My HS sex life(or lack there of...) is non of your damn business!














Edit: Top page biatches!

[MassLiberal]

I'm glad that a woman has finally voiced her opinion. It is also interesting that it is the most nuanced one of the thread so far.

[Cyber Cop]

(and I assure you it's not as gargantuan as Cyber Cop's communal ass). But that is a conversation for another thread.

When will the skinny white kids finally figure out the chicks dig a well proportioned ass.

[Tippster]

Werd, Tracy. Having been on the support end of 2 abortions (driving to and paying for) I can second the statement that no woman goes through that lightly. That had to be the worst waiting room ever.

BTW - drop the overpopulation argument. It's insipid. The countries where the population pressures are greatest need contraception and family counseling in general, not merely abortion services.

[MassLiberal]

Tippster, I'm right there with you on that one.

[MeatPuppet]

And wealth distributions.
Uhh, Lima, Sao Paulo, Mexico City, LaHore, North Korea, San Jose, Bangladesh, uhhh...just enter a few more.

Very true. Those who are wealthy have more options and have access to a better life. I do not believe that they should be punished for their success. Nor should they have their wealth(or any part of it) taken from them and redistributed to those who are not as wealthy.


The "poor" as we see them today have been the norm throughout human history. Because a large number of people have been able to escape that survival oriented lifestyle in recent times shouldn't make them the villians or in some way responsible for the "poor". It would speak well of the "wealthy" if they attempted to help the poor, but that should be a personal choice.

Class envy is rampant and very distructive.

[Cyber Cop]

Very true. Those who are wealthy have more options and have access to a better life. I do not believe that they should be punished for their success. Nor should they have their wealth(or any part of it) taken from them and redistributed to those who are not as wealthy.


The "poor" as we see them today have been the norm throughout human history. Because a large number of people have been able to escape that survival oriented lifestyle in recent times shouldn't make them the villians or in some way responsible for the "poor". It would speak well of the "wealthy" if they attempted to help the poor, but that should be a personal choice.

Class envy is rampant and very distructive.

What about the vast fortunes made from the labor of the poor? I guess the common laboror has no role in generating wealth? Yes, the CEO "Earned" that 20 mil.?

Check this out as concerns wealth distribution. http://www.epinet.org/content.cfm/we...shots_05272004

[PNWbrit]

BTW - drop the overpopulation argument. It's insipid. The countries where the population pressures are greatest need contraception and family counseling in general, not merely abortion services.

Instead the U.S. now cuts finance to programmes promoting contraception for both family planning purposes and AIDS prevention and puts it's support behind abstinence education for the third world:

http://www.opendemocracy.net/globali..._aids_3078.jsp
http://www.guardian.co.uk/brazil/sto...475966,00.html
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2005/04/06/usdom10432.htm

Dear Religous right,

if we agreed with your morals we'd adopt them. Please don't try and legislate us into them.

signed
everyone else

[Dantheman]

Very true. Those who are wealthy have more options and have access to a better life. I do not believe that they should be punished for their success. Nor should they have their wealth(or any part of it) taken from them and redistributed to those who are not as wealthy.


The "poor" as we see them today have been the norm throughout human history. Because a large number of people have been able to escape that survival oriented lifestyle in recent times shouldn't make them the villians or in some way responsible for the "poor". It would speak well of the "wealthy" if they attempted to help the poor, but that should be a personal choice.

Class envy is rampant and very distructive.

Because "it has always been that way" doesn't make it right. How can you claim to care so much for a single life that has yet to even begin, and in the same breath so callously dismiss the horrendous suffering of millions of already living people? Unbelievable.

[CUBUCK]

What about the vast fortunes made from the labor of the poor? I guess the common laboror has no role in generating wealth? Yes, the CEO "Earned" that 20 mil.?

Check this out as concerns wealth distribution. http://www.epinet.org/content.cfm/we...shots_05272004

One thing i have learned in my last two years in New York is even the rich earn their wealth. You don't have to be working a forklift or be a factory worker, farmer etc. If anything many of these guys that clock in at 8 and leave at 5 work much less than then the "wealthy" CEOs, bankers lawyers and white collar jobs that some of you like to rag on.

[Cono Este]

What about the vast fortunes made from the labor of the poor? I guess the common laboror has no role in generating wealth? Yes, the CEO "Earned" that 20 mil.?

Check this out as concerns wealth distribution. http://www.epinet.org/content.cfm/we...shots_05272004

I am sure that if those laborers were in the same position they would keep the 20 mil, minus 9 mil for uncle sam of course. But you must be the exception.

Whatever it is you do for a living, I sincerely hope you become very successful, and then I hope nobody comes along after 20yrs of hard work and tells you that you do not deserve it. Because that would be really lame.

[rideit]

You guys are correct, the OP argument is a bit of a canard, on the whole. But the reality of Catholic, Mormon, and Muslim sanctioning the production of more children for families that in no way can afford them is a true and despicable reality.
I have the perspective that I hold on abortion because having been through one (vicariously, I guess?) probably saved my life, and very possibly the potential future of two other individuals. The choice was an easy one at the time for both of us, and I am sure there have been no regrets. We are still friends 17 years later.

[Cyber Cop]

Earn is the key word here. Labor has a value just like any other commodity. CEO's tend to think their labor is worth vastly more than most. We all work hard.

[seatosky]

I am sure that if those laborers were in the same position they would keep the 20 mil, minus 9 mil for uncle sam of course. But you must be the exception.

That doesn't prove anything tho. Yes, human greed is universal. So what?

Whatever it is you do for a living, I sincerely hope you become very successful, and then I hope nobody comes along after 20yrs of hard work and tells you that you do not deserve it. Because that would be really lame.

Might be lame, might also be true.

[Magnoe]

Kids who are well raised and unconditionally loved are far more likely to go the abstinence route.

What about teens who never had good parenting and/or come from broken homes, or suffered other childhood tramas? They're going to find fulfillment wherever they can. Magnoe, what's your experience with kids in this latter group?

You said it well. I also have close ties to the local Teen Challenge program. These are women who have figuratively and literally been pulled from the gutters from drug and alcohol addiction. The program helps clean them from their addiction, give them self esteem, and help them become productive members of our societies. It is awesome to see when people are given a second lease on life. Many of those women are from the latter group described. I've even employed one in my business. Your right, they are going to find fulfillment wherever they can.

Really, what it comes down to is that every person needs to be loved and respected. I've voiced some strong opinions in this thread. But I'm more concerned that every young person feels valuable and loved. A lot of these issues will fall into place after that.

[Cono Este]

Earn is the key word here. Labor has a value just like any other commodity. CEO's tend to think their labor is worth vastly more than most. We all work hard.

we all make choices. some people prefer not to take additional risk in life. Collect a paycheck and let someone else take all the liability. Take a job making 20 an hr while others are raking up debt in school, etc etc. Sure you can single out the Fortune 500 ceo`s, but for everyone you did I could give you an example of some poor farmboy who grew to greatness from nothing. I know people who are millions of dollars in debt after trying to start their own companies, but I dont see their "laborer's" comming around to help pay the rent.

Hard work is only a small part of it. The vast majority of people that "earn" that kind of money bet their great granchildren to do it.

[divegirl]

What I find most fucked-up about this bill is the fact that it's major proponent is a female - Julie Bartling or something - AND she's a democrat. The reason I find this revolting? Because there is NO EXCEPTION which states you may have an abortion if you were RAPED!!!

I have no problem with a state voting to ban abortions. If the voters concur, then so be it! Even though I'm pro-choice, the voting process dictates. However, I'd also like to see how the main proponents of this bill - male and female - feel after they unwillingly get a dick shoved up their ass or in their vagaina.

[MassLiberal]

You're kidding me, right? Saying that the vast majority of CEO's come from the farm or from the lower classes of society is a straight lie. Most that I have ever had the pleasure of dealing with come from the lucky sperm club, or at best took risks with millions of dollars of inherited money. Sure there are a couple of farmboy millionaires, but they are the exception, and not the rule.

[Cyber Cop]

In the end I have no problem with the wealth generated by capitalism. I do have a problem with the mindset that you owe nothing to society. A country that can generate this type of wealth can feed, clothe and care for its own, all of them, if we are truley moral and ethical beings???

[Magnoe]

So there's this video (I'll see if I can dig it up...) where there's a debate over abortion in a church somehwere in the south. The priest spends 5 to 10 minutes raging about murder, fetus rights, etc... all the usual bullshite.

Then it comes to the supporters turn:

supporter: So your contention for rape victims and children of people who cannot financially or emotionally support a child is adoption?

priest: Of course.

supporter: I have a list here of 200 children waiting for adoption in this county. If adoption is the answer, then clearly your congregation will gladly start by taking some of these kids in.

<dead silence>

Classic. I love how it cuts right to the center of the fundamental hypocracy of the anti-abortion camp.

This is one of the most poignent posts in this whole thread.

You know what, he's right. Sure I would like law to protect the unborn as much as possible. I would love to see even compromises in partial-birth, etc... But the bottom line is the fact that many people in the anti-abortion camp stand on a soap box and preach right and wrong but at the same time are not willing to be part of the solution. There are a lot of hypocrites and I need to even reflect on it myself. Would my wife and I be willing to open our home and adopt a child right now?

It's not easy and I apologize to those who have felt defensive because I appear to be "right wing" on this. Sure, I would love the court to interpret the protection of "life" to extend to a fetus. But even if that's not the case, through education (both kinds of sex education) and loving on kids, a lot of these situations may be deterred.

You may feel this is pie-in-the-sky false hopes, but I'm not going to give up on kids.

[Cono Este]

I will be the first to admit that ceo's of public companies make too much. But the same arguement could be made for a ball player. You make it sound like it is handed to them. It is not. Nobody will let some Trustafarian run their billion doallr company. Alot of people who make that kind of money started their business`s. They took enormous risk to do so. And their employess expected to get paid in good times or bad. The vast majoirty of them fail, and the employes lose nothing compared to them.

save a million bucks, then go start a company, hire a bunch of people, pay ridiculous workers comp rates and insurance, try to get some sleep during the first 2 years and then tell me you dont derserve it if you are lucky enough to turn a profit.

[CUBUCK]

You're kidding me, right? Saying that the vast majority of CEO's come from the farm or from the lower classes of society is a straight lie. Most that I have ever had the pleasure of dealing with come from the lucky sperm club, or at best took risks with millions of dollars of inherited money. Sure there are a couple of farmboy millionaires, but they are the exception, and not the rule.

What can you say.... Ambitious people have ambitious offspring.

I would assume that most come from somewhere in the middle. Not the over privileged and not the farm boys either. Although there are a few of both of those groups as well.

[Magnoe]

Whoa, I come back from lunch and post a few responses only to find the threads moved a whole different direction.

My previous two posts don't really fit in the rhythm there. JONG move on my part

[divegirl]

Whoa, I come back from lunch and post a few responses only to find the threads moved a whole different direction.

My previous two posts don't really fit in the rhythm there. JONG move on my part

I did the same thing above - but it doesn't matter - people go on tangents all the time.

[Cyber Cop]

No worries, that was Cono Estes fault. You know how these log cabin repub types like to operate.