Santa Cruz Nomad?

[crashnburn'd]

So which one of these is the Nomad?

[Tap]

CS - since we're derailing this thread, i'll chime in.

yes, bikes are bikes, and skillz are skillz, but i'll say that it's the geometry details that make the difference.

as for the cornering thing....again, a matter of geometry....here's a quote i lifted from MTBR from Dave Turner regarding cornering (it's specifically about why the DHR does not have a 150mm hub - which doesn't matter here - but says something to me about the designers thought process)

Races are won in the corners. Period. Everyone has balls of steel untill the tape bends and the ruts get BB deep. My theory in the past and to this day is that a 135 x 73 allows the narrowest deraileur spacing for the least chance of ripping it off. It also allows the cranks to be a little narrower for pedaling out of turns on off camber slopes. In racing it all ads up and with races won by such narrow margins I try to think in the most tight terms.
Wheel strength is an issue, and I would love to see a 6 speed available in the back to get some spoke angle back, and keep the rear lighter and still narrow. XC crank stuff is WAY lighter than the 83 FR stuff as well, and in racing weight will always be returned to as a way to manage a race vehicle performance. Maybe working with Eric Carter and John Kirkaldee and April and Colin rubbed off on me too much. But when I put on my DHR thinking hat that allow me to see ribbons slapping in the breeze and fresh ruts arcing down the hill as racers in skin suits flowing over the rough and powerwheelying like bmx pro's wherever there is room to pedal I try to build a frame for them, and if they have to re lace a new wheel once or twice a year I think that will be the least of their worries. Thats Racing!

DT

FWIW.....long live long rides!

[Particle]

I have to agree with CS here. While I have ridden (and owned) several boutique bikes, the fact is they aren't that much better than something like a Kona.

I own a Foes, and that thing is a work of art. It is a beautiful frame, and it absolutely rules for riding. I freaking love the thing. But know what? If I had a Yeti, Kona, SC, Specailized, etc...I'd most likely love them too. Actually I do have a Yeti (made in Taiwan) and I'm as attached to it as to my Foes. I think that bikes like Turners, Foes, Intense, Ellsworth, etc...are like exotic sportscars. You hear these brand names as being the absolute best, winning races, etc...and dangit you WANT one. You want a ride THAT COOL and everything that comes along with it (riders staring at your rig in jealousy, etc). And when you get one...well, it's a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

It's such a sick bike in your mind before you own it that it becomes so in real life. There's no denying that the custom/boutique nature of these frames is beautiful - they are dead sexy. The welds, craftsmanship that go into them is definitely a step above a Kona. But on the trail? The differences ARE real, but not so huge as many people make it sound.

[assgasorgrass]

Well, having gone from one horst link bike to another, Specialized FSR Pro to a Titus Motolite this is what I can offer as far as ride on mass builders v. boutique builders:

On the downhills the FSR Pro felt like I was riding an old school Schwinn Swinger bikes i.e. the front end didn't feel "connected" to the rear end.

Hop on the Moto-lite on the dh's and it feels like I am on rails, literally.

As far as the Kona v. Turner, the angle of the rear shock on the Turner looks like it is different than the Kona's, different positioning. Don't know how that effects the ride though.

[wintermittent]

Speculation and sanctimony is par for the course in Sprocket Rockets, but bringing a tele plate binding analogy into the fray =

[Particle]

On the downhills the FSR Pro felt like I was riding an old school Schwinn Swinger bikes i.e. the front end didn't feel "connected" to the rear end.

Hop on the Moto-lite on the dh's and it feels like I am on rails, literally.

ditto on this big difference

[uncle crud]

Lastly, I think all this jabber is lame anyways. If you can ride, you can "handle" any decent bike. I'm pretty sure I can ride a Kona just as well as I can ride a Turner. There may be some nuances you have to get used to but in the end, it's all just going downhill anyways (we won't go into the uphill part because, well, that part is lame).

Turner "Homer" or GOMER I'm not. I don't spend my time taking photos of my newest "upgrades" when other people are out riding. I don't do paper calculations of superiority.

why does a Turner corner better? I don't fuggin' know, I'm not the engineer, I'm the rider. ask Dave Turner. but anyway, why would it matter? if the bike is better for me and my cornering style, why should you give a fugg about second-guessing my honest statement? why?

CS, if you ask me you can give the Homers as much schitt as you like, I do it myself over at MTBR.com where I can't stand the goobers and their silly shadetree engineering debates.

I'm interested in riding my bike, not theorizing about it. and it's not riding season so I'm not riding it daily and can't give you specific details from what I just rode, etc. I will say only this:

to me the true test of a bikes stability and handling is when you get a few rides on a new bike and find that when you take it to your sketchiest DH run and you are coming into and out of corners hotter than ever before, and with stability and confidence you've never seen on any prior bike, and you know YOU aren't doing anything differently... well, what does that tell you?

if you think it's the rider and not the bike (which it may be in your fantasies but humor me here) then tell me why it is that Marc Beaumont went from an also-ran to a regular top 15 placer in World Cup DH after swapping from Orange to Santa Cruz? Beaumont has said it's the bike. His friends and non-SCB Syndicate teammates say likewise.

a skilled rider can ride any bike well. what a skilled rider also knows is that he/she has his/her own style of riding and that there are certain bikes that complement that style and others that require technique and style changes from those normally preferred.

say, CS, what skis do you ride?

[Arty50]

I'm pretty sure I can ride a Kona just as well as I can ride a Turner.

I'm pretty sure you can ride that little pink kiddie bike as well as either of these too. And while I'm joking, I'm not joking.

[CS]

a lot of words

Easy there unlce c. Don't take everything I say so literally. I'm sure at the top-level dh circuit the bike does make a big difference. Probably not so much for the average Joe. And I wasn't trying to second guess anything you said, I was honestly wondering what makes the Turner such a solid ride. And I get that different bikes suit different people better. Eh, anyways, glad you dig your bike. I'm jonesin to get out and ride mine.

oh, and for skiing I ride a Nordica Beast in the BC and a Stockli SS Pro inbounds.