Why use AT gear for touring if you can tele?

**InspectorGadget** · 02-10-2006, 12:10 AM

Cross referencing my other thread:

Sunday I spent my first day on tele gear skiing Sunnyside, the bunny hill at Alta. I was using a pair of Garmont SynerG's and K2 World Pistes. Other than burning quads at the bottom of each run, I had an absolute riot. I am now questioning all the AT gear I've bought (and haven't used) this year. I'm thinking why, if I get proficient at telemarketing, wouldn't I tour on tele gear. The boots were comfy and the whole set-up is a feather compared to all but maybe Trackhead's AT rig.

On a sidenote: It was only the third day on his tele gear and Mini-Gadget was running circles around me. It was pretty cool watching my eleven year old making turns like it was old-hat.

To some degree, while the title of this thread may be rhetorical, I'm curious to know what you think.

Tele vs. AT . . . . please discuss.

**summit** · 02-10-2006, 12:11 AM

LOCKEM DOWN!

**cj001f** · 02-10-2006, 12:15 AM

Originally Posted by InspectorGadget

I'm thinking why, if I get proficient at telemarketing, wouldn't I tour on tele gear.

No reason at all. Except that getting equally proficient is a pain in the ass.

**Blurred** · 02-10-2006, 12:23 AM

Why not just snowboard? I heard the moonboots are waayy more comfy than tele boots.

If you have any NX21's, I'll take 'em.

**DownhillRider** · 02-10-2006, 12:23 AM

Originally Posted by InspectorGadget

Cross referencing my other thread:
I am now questioning all the AT gear I've bought (and haven't used) this year.

If you wanna sell it....let me know.

Also, if you have equally as much fun then no reason at all, I personally couldnt imagine telemarking though...all depends on the person.

**mtnbikerskierchick** · 02-10-2006, 01:03 AM

[QUOTE=InspectorGadget] I'm thinking why, if I get proficient at telemarketing, wouldn't I tour on tele gear.QUOTE]

Well, first off, if you get proficient at telemarketing, that isn't going to help you at all with telemarking

Second, I'm really no tele skier, but I know my tele pals have a lot more difficulty going off the cliffs I want to go off of. It seems like alpine (AT) is a lot easier for hucking. But, if you're not a hucker, then probably no need to worry. Maybe tele is the way to go for ya!

**Telepath** · 02-10-2006, 01:21 AM

Originally Posted by mtnbikerskierchick

But, if you're not a hucker, then probably no need to worry. Maybe tele is the way to go for ya!

Or you'll just have to be an animal like hop:

**orygun** · 02-10-2006, 01:29 AM

As someone who has gone from Alpine, to tele, and back to alpine again, I have got to say alpine is definitively a lot easier to huck in. I had a few friends I teled with who could definitively throw down, but no where near as big as a good alpine skiier. Even with burly tele boots, you just dont have the same level of stability and control. Basically you cant just get away with power, you need a lot of finesse too. I could see if you get bored of alpine it could be fun to try, but Im definitively not there yet!

**bossass** · 02-10-2006, 01:46 AM

Originally Posted by Telepath

Or you'll just have to be an animal like hop:

Does MBS tilt the camera, or is he just drunk all the time?

**Mulletizer** · 02-10-2006, 02:31 AM

There are quite a few disadvantages to touring on tele:

- it is a less efficient walking movement than AT (unless you get a heavy, expensive binder with walk mode)
- the gear is less reliable
- heel bars on tele bindings hardly ever work right
- crampons on tele boots are a pain in the ass (you need a wide model, even then you have tiny front points because of the duckbill sticking out)
- for most people it is less secure for steep stuff
- it is much harder to ski variable snow (ie breakable) on tele that you often find in the bc
- forget about ski crampons for most binders
- if you log big vertical the fatigue of tele turns will get to you eventually

I don't tour on tele gear much any more - 1 time this season compared to 7 or 8 on AT gear.

FWIW I don't see where hucking comes into the touring debate. It's not really somethinG you do when touring/on touring gear...

HOP is rad.

**shera** · 02-10-2006, 06:37 AM

Originally Posted by Mulletizer

FWIW I don't see where hucking comes into the touring debate. It's not really somethinG you do when touring/on touring gear...

Funny....

**Telepath** · 02-10-2006, 07:02 AM

Originally Posted by SheRa

Funny....

I tend to aggree with mulletizer on this. I too will go bigger on alpine than on tele gear. On the other hand I will go way bigger on tele gear than on Freeride/nx21 bindings.

I guess that it depends a bit on what "hucking" means to different people. 10-12 feet of flight into bottomless can be done on NNN-BC stuff, but jumping off anything in weird snow on technical terrain when you're 1000m vert into your line and has another 1000m vert to go is something I go far to avoid having to do on AT bindings. I trust tele binders more for this (but mostly I end up on Trekkers, which does however lead to other issues like questionable traversing at times).

Originally Posted by Mulletizer

HOP is rad.

Indeed. I wonder how Turkey is treating him (and if the russians will make him their babushka)?

**Mulletizer** · 02-10-2006, 08:20 AM

Originally Posted by SheRa

Funny....

Why do you think that?

**lemon boy** · 02-10-2006, 08:29 AM

maybe you guys have missed seeing all the pillow drops they've been hitting lately? Pretty sure that's what she's talkin about.

otherwise, there's no real reason not to tour on tele stuff. It is all merely preference for which people will find rationalizations to support their position. In the end, it all comes down to comfort: are you comfortable skiing your objective on the gear that you have chosen to bring that day.

also: can we get a ruling on the shot of HOP? That kid uses training heels enough that there's no telling w/o one.

**altagirl** · 02-10-2006, 08:34 AM

IG - I've toured on my tele gear a few times. And if the snow isn't PERFECT, I'm flailing and making survival turns all the way down (like when we skinned up to Thirds pre-season and it was all thick breakable crust on the way back down... ugly. And therefore all the touring I've done recently has been on AT gear. Really, it would just take devoting some (actually a lot of) extra time to becoming proficient telemarking in variable snow/steeper terrain/etc... and I've been having way too much fun on alpine gear this season to do it.

**Hugh Jass** · 02-10-2006, 09:01 AM

I don't tour on tele gear anymore either. Unless it's maybe just a mellow day at a moderate pace with guaranteed good snow.

AT is so much more efficient (and faster) on the up, and affords far more power and control on the way down. In addition to the points Mulletizer made, most tele bindings don't release, which was a big factor for me in terms of preserving my knees, and added safety in avalanche terrain.

I tend to ski heavy AT stuff, which is only marginally heavier than my tele stuff. And I'm not much of a hucker, so that's not an issue either.

Depending on your skill level, you can really do anything with tele gear that you can with AT. But for me, AT is just a better option.

The next question that I'm facing is: why tele inbounds if you can alpine?

**Telepath** · 02-10-2006, 09:07 AM

Originally Posted by lemon boy

also: can we get a ruling on the shot of HOP? That kid uses training heels enough that there's no telling w/o one.

Tele. I don't think he skied one day of alpine at home last year, these days he only does that when we get him in trouble over here. Besides his alpine slippers are yellow and it does look like he's wearing red in the pic. Hop is one guy who doesn't seem to mind flying off stuff on tele gear (though when you're planning on landing assfirst the gear issue becomes rather irrelevant I guess

)

Aggreed, it's about personal preferences. I know a lot of sickos who do weird stuff (or fly) on AT binders. I don't. As long as I stay on the snow they tend to last at least a few weeks of active use, whereas they normally die in less than a week when not careful. Had to walk home/down one time too many. Weight and balancing probably has a lot to do with it too.

**Huckwheat** · 02-10-2006, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by lemon boy

In the end, it all comes down to comfort: are you comfortable skiing your objective on the gear that you have chosen to bring that day. .

LB sums up my reasoning for skiing AT. I tele some, but only at resort for a different challenge. But in tahoe at least, there are usually some challenging lines I want to ski BC, so my AT makes me more comfortable. The super variable snow pack is another reason....breakable crust on tele's sounds scary.

I have obviously not had the bad AT binding experiences many here have.....but I still huck it up in the BC. Not huge or anything, but I am an self proclaimed addict, and when there is fresh snow and fun drops around......I really cannot stop myself. (also, here is the weirdest thing, I still tour on original Diamirs. They are duct taped together and have been on 3 pairs of skis, but they have fully broken yet).

**homerjay** · 02-10-2006, 10:23 AM

It took me 3 years of strictly telemarking to stop sucking. I'm more comfortable on tele gear than with my heel locked down these days.

Benefits to telemarking:
- Chicks dig it
- It makes you stronger
- Mounting all of your own skis with paper templates is fun and rewarding
- Constantly breaking gear will enable you to get good at fixing things
- Great way to get around (traversing, etc.)
- Less efficient uphill/downhill....so it makes you stronger
- Big boots, big skis, powerful bindings enable you to P-turn when you have to
- Less torque on knees in twisting falls, etc
- No need to worry about DIN settings
- An excuse to wear knee pads
- Way more 'soul' than alpine
- Goes well with Grateful Dead music, ganja, and granola
- Comfy, light boots
- More face shots because I'm lower to the ground

**hemas** · 02-10-2006, 10:25 AM

Well, for the many cons of touring on tele's, there are also a few pros.

- It's gonna be lighter (unless your AT-gear is Dynafit's).
- Some tele-binders are much more robbust than AT-binders (Rotte R8 and others spring to mind).
- You happen to hate the pivot-point on Diamir's (if coming from XC-skiing this will really annoy you, Naxo's and most likely Silveretta's are a bit better).

I tour on tele's simply 'cause I like the way they feel when touring (on flat's and gentel slopes) and 'cause I like to ski on tele's. But I do take out my AT-rig, when I'm planning on skiing something steep in no-fall terrain.

Oh, and if you flip the heel-lever the other way (works on most tele-binders) you got almost free-pivot as well (the rise which you normally use when skinning is basicly free-pivot).

**Free Range Lobster** · 02-10-2006, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by mtnbikerskierchick

Second, I'm really no tele skier, but I know my tele pals have a lot more difficulty going off the cliffs I want to go off of. It seems like alpine (AT) is a lot easier for hucking. But, if you're not a hucker, then probably no need to worry. Maybe tele is the way to go for ya!

Pick up any unparalleled video then come back after you've watched it mmmkay?

Originally Posted by hemas

- Some tele-binders are much more robbust than AT-binders (Rotte R8 and others spring to mind).

**Greydon Clark** · 02-10-2006, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by Hugh Jass

The next question that I'm facing is: why tele inbounds if you can alpine?

To avoid the ridicule of Stony Wall and Greydon Clark. Fixed gears and free heels—I’ll be true ‘til death.

**iskibc** · 02-10-2006, 12:15 PM

Freakin' hippies!

I'm thinking about buying a tele setup for long traverses and high mileage days. Also think tele would be a great training tool for AT. Just about all tele skiers I know rip hard and can hang on long tours.