decambering a ski

[Blurred]

If it's worth anything, a certain K2 sponsored athelete was seen yesterday with a pair of maiden AK's that were bent like Spatulas. He told me he bent them himself.

[Greydon Clark]

Like most of you, I read in the SIA thread that 4Front was coming out with a flat ski (no camber). Have any of you laied eyes on, or, better yet, skied this plank?

[marshalolson]

Sure, go right ahead and bend those non metal skis, let us know how it works!!!

because wood is incapable of being bent and holding a shape?

[hop]

If it's worth anything, a certain K2 sponsored athelete was seen yesterday with a pair of maiden AK's that were bent like Spatulas. He told me he bent them himself.

K2 made a bunch of prototypes of Pontoons out of the Made'n mold.

[lemon boy]

APD - A thought: you might try putting a section of 2x4 between the tips & tails and then using a good strap to hold the underfoot section of the bases together

or...cycle them a bunch using 4x4 blocks in your livingroom while watching the tube.

If Race Stock wants to delete all his comments that's fine but can we please stop quoting them and responding? thanks

[AltaPowderDaze]

lb,

so far, i've been taking it slow and have only used a 2x4 at tip/tail as pictured (2" side between them). i haven't used any heat with them yet, since i want to take it slow. quick changes don't seem to be very good for normally stiff/strong objects (i just re-read this, no pun intended). they are losing about .5mm of camber per 8-10 hrs. that's about 4mm since i've begun. when base to base, i plan to get them to within .5-1" of camber under foot.



i love the ski the way they are on the groomers but want to tweak them for pow. part of the problem is that i'm mounted +6mm due to the freeride binding hole pattern. i opted to move back but then the holes for the heel were in the way.

[LaramieSkiBum]

If it's worth anything, a certain K2 sponsored athelete was seen yesterday with a pair of maiden AK's that were bent like Spatulas. He told me he bent them himself.

seen the same at alta on big days this year. They don't seem to be pontoons, didn't seem to have the girth in the tip. But I didn't walk up and fondle them either. These had only had camber (reverse) in the tip.

[flip]

lb,
they are losing about .5mm of camber per 8-10 hrs. that's about 4mm since i've begun. when base to base, i plan to get them to within .5-1" of camber under foot.

I stand corrected... I guess cycling isn't necessary. That's what I get for assuming wood laminates act the same metals and fiber composites alone. Good to know, thanks.

[lingcod]

What am I missing on this camber with the Bros? Yeah, I noticed right away that my new Bros had a lot of camber, vs, say, my DPs. But I'm crazy about them in every condition from deep pow to funky North Idaho crud to hard pack getting from point A to point B. My tips aren't diving, I'm not struggling. Shit, they plow through everything. Maybe it's because I remember when people used to worry about their skis decambering and had to store them with the wood blocks under the bindings, but I'm not seeing the camber here as a negative, beyond that it just looks kind of weird. I don't know that I'd be experimenting on brand new Bros to take the camber out of them; I think you'll just tear them up. My $.02.

[AltaPowderDaze]

Yeah, I noticed right away that my new Bros had a lot of camber, vs, say, my DPs. But I'm crazy about them in every condition from deep pow to funky North Idaho crud to hard pack getting from point A to point B. My tips aren't diving, I'm not struggling. Shit, they plow through everything.

so far, the inverted snow or breakable crust has been the main problem with excess camber.

Maybe it's because I remember when people used to worry about their skis decambering and had to store them with the wood blocks under the bindings, but I'm not seeing the camber here as a negative,

i haven't seen many people with skis wider than 60mm underfoot that are overly concerned about camber. i don't park ski, so i'm not in need of pop for the kickers or boosting out of the pipe. i don't bang gates so again no need to be pushed from edge to edge, though it is nice on the groomers.

What am I missing on this camber with the Bros?

if you'll notice, mine are mounted with a binding that isn't common at resorts. these aren't meant to be my end all quiver of onebut rather a ski that can do perform well in most conditions. powder and survival turns take precedence over maching down the double black corduroy. maybe i just haven't figured out how to ski this stuff they call powder. i figure that if this doesn't work out, i can always attach a couple of these floaties to the tips for the inverted days.

[BLOODSWEATSTEEL]

Great.

Now you guys have tempted me enough to take some clamps and a heat gun to my favorite pair of skis [madens].

:ass puckers up:

This should be interesting.

[splat]

What am I missing on this camber with the Bros? Yeah, I noticed right away that my new Bros had a lot of camber, vs, say, my DPs. But I'm crazy about them in every condition from deep pow to funky North Idaho crud to hard pack getting from point A to point B. My tips aren't diving, I'm not struggling. Shit, they plow through everything. Maybe it's because I remember when people used to worry about their skis decambering and had to store them with the wood blocks under the bindings, but I'm not seeing the camber here as a negative, beyond that it just looks kind of weird. I don't know that I'd be experimenting on brand new Bros to take the camber out of them; I think you'll just tear them up. My $.02.

freakin old skool norida shwister bums...heh.
thank you for that moment of reminiscence.

[LaramieSkiBum]

bump, APD or anyone else, how did this work out? Are you still skiing them? I thought I might have seen you at the 'bird last week but I was on Germ.

My first gen aspen soft bros are submarines (note to others, the new bros do not have this camber issue), mounted on the line with freerides. I've put 20ish days on them, and they still dive in the low density stuff. On Castle this weekend I never did get them to surface and ended up switching back to Seths. I tried to get them up to speed and flex the ski to surface them, but the powder was just too light.

The camber is awesome for the spring, but not so great right now.

Even thicker powder is alot of work compared to my Seth's. Both have are mounted at about the same point and have close to the same running length, so I think it's mostly the stiffness / camber holding me back.

[descender]

I got some Nordica Supercharger Blowers and they had a lot of camber, but more importantly, one had way more camber than the other. It was a noticeable difference, and while it didn't cause any problems skiing, it did annoy me.

So I decided to go the home decamber route. I suspended the ski between two boxes and added some weight to the middle. It was enough to create a reverse camber bend in the ski. I left it like this for about 9 hours.

Results were achieved. I reduced the camber by about 1.5mm. They are more even now. So it works. Maybe.

[flip]

Results were achieved. I reduced the camber by about 1.5mm.

1.5mm of camber is noticeable? I would have a hard time even measuring that...

[descender]

1.5mm of camber is noticeable? I would have a hard time even measuring that...

You can measure the maximum gap between both skis with their base to base. More importantly there appeared to be results with the all important eye-ball exam.

[LaramieSkiBum]

So I decided to go the home decamber route. I suspended the ski between two boxes and added some weight to the middle. It was enough to create a reverse camber bend in the ski. I left it like this for about 9 hours.

Approx how much weight did you use?

Seems the best way to measure would be to rubber band the brakes, hold the skis base to base, measure the max distance, and then divide by two. That would give you the 'average' max camber for each ski. -- i probably won't bother, I want these puppies nearly flat.

[descender]

Approx how much weight did you use?

I used a ski boot plus about 20 lbs of these wrap around weights for exercising. I just added weight until the ski was a little bit reverse cambered -- so there was a slight curve, but not much. After 4 hours nothing happened, so I left it that way during a work day. So maybe an additional 9 hours, for a total of 13. I also cycled the system up and down by hand at various times. I remeasured using the base to base max-gap method. Since I only did this to one ski, the gap change is the camber change in that one ski. I think the approach that AltaPowderDaze took is probably more scientific, but my ghetto technique works too. Just do it in short intervals and measure the progress so you don't overdo it. I think the Blowers have a metal sheet in them, so that may have an effect.

Here is a pic of the setup:


Edit: I should point out that I didn't notice any performance difference after doing this, and the ski still has a lot of camber (maybe too much), so they are still very snappy. I just wanted to even them out.

[AltaPowderDaze]

bump, APD or anyone else, how did this work out? Are you still skiing them? I thought I might have seen you at the 'bird last week but I was on Germ.

i was there monday on the 179's doing some work with the avy dog school.

i am still skiing the 2nd year 188's with the hulk green base and tons of camber. my efforts to decamber the ski worked in the short term but the camber did eventually return to nearly where it started. it was still a noticeable difference and if i ever have the time i may try it again. these skis are mounted alpine and i don't get to ski them very much but i am sure they will eventually decamber on their own. i just don't bring them out on pow days, which doesn't seem to be a problem this season. my every day ski is a pair of 188 blems from the first batch w/ brown sidewalls and i really love to ski those. lsb, like you i also noticed that the recent edition skis that i've seen don't seem to have camber problems.

[summit]

20lbs? but if you weigh say 170lbs at 1G and are pulling Gs in a turn... what exactly is 20lbs going to do to the ski? tickle it?

[lax]

i was pretty sure pep skis were made for him no?

i think i have to do this to my powder pluses now, especiall yafter reading that "they're 800x awesomer" review

[splat]

i was there monday on the 179's doing some work with the avy dog school.

i am still skiing the 2nd year 188's with the hulk green base and tons of camber. my efforts to decamber the ski worked in the short term but the camber did eventually return to nearly where it started. it was still a noticeable difference and if i ever have the time i may try it again. these skis are mounted alpine and i don't get to ski them very much but i am sure they will eventually decamber on their own. i just don't bring them out on pow days, which doesn't seem to be a problem this season. my every day ski is a pair of 188 blems from the first batch w/ brown sidewalls and i really love to ski those. lsb, like you i also noticed that the recent edition skis that i've seen don't seem to have camber problems.

You guys are giving me goosebumps. I can't even begin to relate my frustration when the quebecois guys who barely spoke english and I (with my five to ten word french vocabulary) argued rather heatedly about that camber in the factory last year when the skis were coming out of the press. That issue was the first thing we solved once we got the press up and running this fall. Since then, it seems we've dealt with a thousand other issues and mixed things up to make each pair better than the pair before it, backtracking every flaw in detail so it is corrected immediately. I know we've been slow, but we've been fastidiously detail oriented in tuning and sculpting the skis to ride, endure, and look the way they should. Making changes on the fly wasn't an option last year, due to the mindset and financial straits of the factory crew and owners. They just wanted to blast through the order. We're endeavoring to do it right this year. I think you'll like the 188s from this year much better, APD.

[LaramieSkiBum]

i'll give this a try over the next few days and let you guys know. Thanks so much for your input and quick replies.

I've got a long way to go :-). My bros have more camber than my 182 volkl six stars, I'll post some before and after pics if I can get my camera going.