Bode Miller is an idiot

[Trackhead]

EPO Testing

Old science on EPO testing.

IGF-1, nothing like a little gene therapy to get faster. Maybe some TDF riders are the lab rats.

[trouble]

If Lance is a doper for consistently finishing first, then clearly Ullrich must be a doper for consistently finishing 2nd.

ullrich and everyone else, lance just gets the heat because he wins. They can't test for epo, so the best they can do is set a max hemoglobin level, but we all have a naturally different level. Somehow everyone in the pro ranks is within 1% of max. I doubt its a coincidence.

And how are they going to test for blood packing? You are just forcing your body into more of your own red blood cells, no drugs needed. It won't end because the tests and regulations are all created as a reaction, they are always a few steps behind.

All that said, if they are all doing it, then the playing field is level anyways, its just at a different level, and really that doesn't bother me all that much. Maybe lance is clean, but all I am saying is that I wouldn't be surprised if he (or anyone else) wasn't, because people only get caught when they get sloppy and that guy has the most meticulous preparation of probably any athlete in any sport, ever. Even if he did get busted I really wouldn't feel cheated, because thats not what sets him above the other racers, and it doesn't take away from his most important accomplishments. But, I am sure many people would feel differently than me.

[powderhound]

EPO Testing

Well shit, guess I'm the idiot.

[philippeR]

ullrich and everyone else, lance just gets the heat because he wins. They can't test for epo, so the best they can do is set a max hemoglobin level, but we all have a naturally different level. Somehow everyone in the pro ranks is within 1% of max. I doubt its a coincidence.

And how are they going to test for blood packing? You are just forcing your body into more of your own red blood cells, no drugs needed. It won't end because the tests and regulations are all created as a reaction, they are always a few steps behind.

All that said, if they are all doing it, then the playing field is level anyways, its just at a different level, and really that doesn't bother me all that much. Maybe lance is clean, but all I am saying is that I wouldn't be surprised if he (or anyone else) wasn't, because people only get caught when they get sloppy and that guy has the most meticulous preparation of probably any athlete in any sport, ever. Even if he did get busted I really wouldn't feel cheated, because thats not what sets him above the other racers, and it doesn't take away from his most important accomplishments. But, I am sure many people would feel differently than me.

My thoughts exactly.
Doping is inherent to pro cyclism since the early ages.
It's just the toughest sport of them all. And Armstrong was the best at it for seven years.

But he had been tested positive, sort of :
http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/8740.0.html

[Trackhead]

My thoughts exactly.
Doping is inherent to pro cyclism since the early ages.
It's just the toughest sport of them all. And Armstrong was the best at it for seven years.

But he had been tested positive, sort of :
http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/8740.0.html

In an article publish in Aug-05, not much has been heard since?

That's a big 'sort of'.

Guilty until proven innocent?

[schindlerpiste]

heh...people are talking about Bode and the US ski team...

I'll bet they didn't plan that.

The problem is that all the euros that I know, are now talking about Bode being "arrogant, and a spoiled American". What else is new....the european perception of the USA.

The dude was the darling of world alpine skiing and all of winter sports. Instead, he has become a dip shit. Nice going.

I say, either race and win, or STFU. No one likes an ex-champ who has gone bad with a big mouth. It sounds Mike Tyson-like.

[Foggy_Goggles]

That's just "Bode being Bode". If he wants to speak his mind, so be it. He earned his microphone. I'm not sure he directly called out Lance for dopping. It reads to me he called him out for taking a random box of pills. Semantics? Perhaps. I think he's exposing a valid critique of suststance testing. Most world class athletes probably take whatever they can to enhance their performance as long as it's not "on the list". Once it's "on the list" they are a cheat. It's a fineline in reality but one that the public and media see as black and white. My prediction, Bode is done after the Olypics. I celebrate his successes and honesty. All the Bode haters, you don't like Iverson do ya?

[philippeR]

In an article publish in Aug-05, not much has been heard since?

That's a big 'sort of'.

Guilty until proven innocent?

Well, it had been heard fairly well on my side of the pond (I'm french). But not that much indeed because :
- Almost everyone interested in cyclism was already convinced that Armstrong was on EPO.
- He had already ended his career.
- It was impossible to take his '99 maillot jaune back. (so what was the point ?)
- The personal vendetta between L'Equipe (a sports daily whose parent company organize the TdF) and Armstrong makes a lot of people uncomfortable.
Doping has been the dirty little secret of the TdF since it started. Everybody knew, nobody would talk. And certainly not L'Equipe's journos. The Festina case in '98 and the massive crackdown on doping by french police and sport authorities ended the omerta for a while. L'Equipe had to be more serious on doping. And Armstrong was an ovious target.

But you have a point. There are no solid evidences, just innumerable clues and second hand testimonies. I was just expressing my conviction, based on the history of the sport, Armstrong super - human performances, and to much clues (his long lasting relationship with and support of Michele Ferrari for instance). It just smells real bad.

[verbier61]

EPO Testing

Old science on EPO testing.

IGF-1, nothing like a little gene therapy to get faster. Maybe some TDF riders are the lab rats.

...... please.......
there's a lot of drugs that are intensively used in many sports, are currently not detected and probably will never be detected. hGH is the prototype, but is certainly not the only one. New Epo derivatives are among those.

[shmerham]

The problem is that all the euros that I know, are now talking about Bode being "arrogant, and a spoiled American". What else is new....the european perception of the USA.

The dude was the darling of world alpine skiing and all of winter sports. Instead, he has become a dip shit. Nice going.

I say, either race and win, or STFU. No one likes an ex-champ who has gone bad with a big mouth. It sounds Mike Tyson-like.

Why is this such a big deal? It's prejudice to form an opinion on the citizens of a country based on some soundbites from a professional athlete and a politician. I think it's arrogant to think you have the authority to do this. So there.

[board]

Most people claim to love "so and so because they are such a straight shooter" but the reality is when someone attempts to speak the pure unadulterated truth we more often than not assassinate them literally or figuratively. The bottom line is while most of us profess to seek the truth we are only truly happy with feel good bullshit.


btw both Bonds and Lance take drugs.

[Foggy_Goggles]

btw both Bonds and Lance take drugs.

You take drugs, dick.

[board]

You take drugs, dick.

But unlike Lance and Barry I will freely admit it. It's also why I go bigger than you !

[JMan]

Bode being Bode sounds similar to Manny being Manny.......i understand why Bode is pointing figures because he is under a lot of scrutiny, but for someone who hates the press he loves talking to them.

[Benny Profane]

Bode had the best Time cover of the year. Frame-able.



And my favorite quote was in Newsweek: "Look, a lot of the people involved with the U.S. Ski Team—the people that I'm representing—are unbelievable a--holes. Rich, cocky, wicked conceited, super-right-wing Republicans. But because of my morals, my principles, I can't judge them for that."


I seriously think that Lance didn't take drugs after the cancer. Before.....of course he did. Now Bonds, good lord. He'll be dead of a heart attack before the hall of fame induction.

[PTracy P1]

Bode rules. fuck you you stanky ho.

[JMan]

^tell manning to cherish his o-ring, its the only ring he'll ever get..........sorry had to use that line, too good to let go.

[PTracy P1]

^tell manning to cherish is o-ring, its the only ring he'll ever get.

i'll trade you PAYton for a can of spaghettios. the ones with the meatballs, cause he ain't got none.

FPM.

[JMan]

^he just has a playoff jinx

[Viva]

They can't test for epo, so the best they can do is set a max hemoglobin level, but we all have a naturally different level. Somehow everyone in the pro ranks is within 1% of max. I doubt its a coincidence.

When I raced, I was within 1.84% of the max allowable and, I was told, many well-trained athletes were within 2 or 2.5 %. How do you think they arrived at that threshold?

I don't believe Lance is taking any of these drugs. I met him and rode with him during his comeback before he went Postal. He didn't strike me as dirty (A bad husband, maybe, but, hey, I wouldn't mind doinking Cheryl Crow either). But that was, like, seven (eight?) years ago and people can change.

As far as these scientific tests go, busting juiced athletes is not an NIH priority and I've never met anyone (i.e., scientists) concerned with this issue. The currently available tests are probably mostly all business-developed. Even if the equipment and assays work as designed, I'm not convinced a lot of the people using them are accurately interpreting the data.

Bode's a young man who's grown up ski racing and may have had too much structure in his formative years. Kinda like Jan Ulrich, who's been mentioned in this thread elsewhere. Lot's and lot's of talent and potential, but he's lost the light. I cannot hold his comments against him; I don't know the man and I don't know what demons he may be wrestling. Be happy Bode!

[runethechamp]

Best cover of the year

[WhiteHunter]

Most people claim to love "so and so because they are such a straight shooter" but the reality is when someone attempts to speak the pure unadulterated truth we more often than not assassinate them literally or figuratively. The bottom line is while most of us profess to seek the truth we are only truly happy with feel good bullshit.


btw both Bonds and Lance take drugs.

Who is speaking the "truth" here. Is Bode? Does Bode have the perfected knowledge regarding Lance that nobody else seems to have. If Bode wants to criticize the inner workings of FIS and the US Ski Team, of which he has been a member, and actually does have intimate knowledge of, that's one thing. Even in that case it is likey only a partial "truth". He does have knowledge in those areas that the rest of us don't but his viewpoint skews his interpretation. Regarding Lance taking EPO or other performance enhancing drugs. He's just stating his opinion, and if you are going to state an opinion without having proof to substantiate it, you are fair game. Just because someone says what they believe doesn't mean they speak the truth, only their truth. Opinion is not truth. The number of people who know the "truth" about anything is infinitesimally small. But frankly, I don't know shit.

[BLOODSWEATSTEEL]

[Cornholio]

Somehow everyone in the pro ranks is within 1% of max. I doubt its a coincidence.

Of course it's not a coincidence!

But it's not causal. The pro riders may have crits like that because they're the worlds best athletes, hence occupy the entire pro ranks. The causation isn't shown. You can't say "They all have max hematocrits, so they all dope."

Bode is an attention hating attention whore, but because of my morals, my principles, I can't judge him for that.

[board]

Who is speaking the "truth" here. Is Bode? Does Bode have the perfected knowledge regarding Lance that nobody else seems to have. If Bode wants to criticize the inner workings of FIS and the US Ski Team, of which he has been a member, and actually does have intimate knowledge of, that's one thing. Even in that case it is likey only a partial "truth". He does have knowledge in those areas that the rest of us don't but his viewpoint skews his interpretation. Regarding Lance taking EPO or other performance enhancing drugs. He's just stating his opinion, and if you are going to state an opinion without having proof to substantiate it, you are fair game. Just because someone says what they believe doesn't mean they speak the truth, only their truth. Opinion is not truth. The number of people who know the "truth" about anything is infinitesimally small. But frankly, I don't know shit.

I totally understand what you are saying. The "truth" is very subjective and open to interpretation etc so maybe in retrospective I should have said "speaking from the heart" Again though I think it is damn near impossible to deny Bonds takes drugs and Lance has a positive EPO test. I don't think there is much room for reasonable doubt here.

How about this example though Bode flatly stating he has skied massively hung over bordering on drunk. He was totally castigated for this, but why ? Because he simply stated a fact that made many people uncomfortable ? I am pro truth and anti bullshit. More people should speak and act more matter of factly the world would be a better place, maybe slightly less comfortable but ultimately better.