CO. mags - your favorite traffic problem discussed....

[funkendrenchman]

I went up Sunday, basically had 70 and abasin to myself. Almost felt like I was missing something important

That's b/c the Broncos played.

[jrbd]

That's b/c the Broncos played.

Correction: the Broncos showed up, the Steelers played.

Sometimes I wonder whether the throughput of I-70 is greater when it's moving 10 mph bumper-to-bumper, versus 60 mph with sparse traffic. Maybe a partial solution would be to throttle the inbound traffic, kind of like the one-at-a-time onramp stoplights on C-470.

[golden powder]

That's b/c the Broncos played.

Yeah, I actually only skied half a day because I wanted to see the Broncos go to the XL superbowl. Instead I watched them roll over and play dead.

[Below Zero]

I70 is coming to the point where I am happy if I can just stay in second gear!

Well I guess immigrants like me are part of the problem too.

[funkendrenchman]

Correction: the Broncos showed up, the Steelers played.

Sometimes I wonder whether the throughput of I-70 is greater when it's moving 10 mph bumper-to-bumper, versus 60 mph with sparse traffic. Maybe a partial solution would be to throttle the inbound traffic, kind of like the one-at-a-time onramp stoplights on C-470.

How bout opening a lane on the opposite side going in the heavy flow direction.

[Lurch]

Correction: the Broncos showed up, the Steelers played.

Sometimes I wonder whether the throughput of I-70 is greater when it's moving 10 mph bumper-to-bumper, versus 60 mph with sparse traffic. Maybe a partial solution would be to throttle the inbound traffic, kind of like the one-at-a-time onramp stoplights on C-470.

Wouldn't it be great if human traffic acted like fluid and speed up through a constriction rather than slow down.

[FrankZappa]

So far, almost the only issues I've seen concern everybodies rush to get up & down the hill w/ lots of great ideas & discussion about how to do it best. But what about some of the other issues; Environmental impacts, economic...???
Environmentally, I-70 has fucked that stretch bad - read some tree rings & note the ones since I-70 was built...
Economically, I'd say a lot of Clear Creek Cnty. was devistated when it was built.
I would have thought there would be a lil' more said about these issues from this crowd.

[mr_gyptian]

ok, well, what do I know, I'm going from memory of years ago before I started going up on Friday nights.

On the way back, however, the canyon is usually slower, fucking casino monkeys going 20 miles per hour.

that's the ticket. I don't know why more people don't look into ski leasing during the winter.

LB's right, though. the Summer sunday evening traffic is demonstrably worse than winter.

Homerjay brings up a great point that whatever proposal is passed needs to get you past Vail. Vail is never backed up due to pure traffic (usually a wreck or avy). However, give it a decade and if we don't do any thing the back up will start in East vail instead of Silverthorne.

meanwhile, I'll be smugly sucking down Sunday beers at my house as all the denvoids and tourons bump and grind their way over the pass.

[smmokan]

If only it were that easy to lease during the ski season. Its really not that affordable unless you can get 8-10 people to go in with you, and you usually have to pay from November thru April, when you don't need it for about 1.5 months of that.

My suggestion is to leave earlier on the weekends (say 5:30-6:00) and hit up the Smiling Moose (or whatever the hell its called) deli off the Silverthorne exit for breakfast.

[Mountain Junkie]

How bout opening a lane on the opposite side going in the heavy flow direction.

Yeah, I've thought about that too. [homerdrool]Just imagine, 60 miles of barricades.

As for throttling the traffic, they already do that (sometimes) by holding traffic at the tunnel. Of course it doesn't really speed things up, but it's a nice gesture.

[smitchell333]

Horses, wagons, Model-A's...?

I-70 just W of Silver Plume. Mt. Sniktau.


It wasn't much different than this just 35-40 years ago. A lil' blacktop on it & it was US 6.

Can we expect the same for all the other roads in another 35-40?

Not too many "Fun" ones any more. (Indy, Wolf Creek - they're all being "Super-Sized" & safety-ized)

God that used to be beautiful!!!

[Tippster]

I'm pretty sure Hwy 6 was paved before 1960, but I could be wrong.... however 45 years ago there were maybe 10% of the people living in the Front Range compared to now. How many of the posters in this thread are native Coloradans? Hell, how many of you have been there longer than 10 years?

The ski house is a time honored tradition in new England. I have about 5 friends in the greater NYC area who pay for 6 months of Beach house in the Hamptons in the summer and another 6 months of ski house in the winter -- most in VT. I think the problem is that rentals in Summit and Eagle Counties are really ludicrously high and the affordable/geographically desirable ones have years-long waiting lists - if they ever open up. Many places are rented purely on a yearly basis versus a seasonal one. Shit - it was like that 15 years ago.

[Benny Profane]

If only it were that easy to lease during the ski season. Its really not that affordable unless you can get 8-10 people to go in with you, and you usually have to pay from November thru April, when you don't need it for about 1.5 months of that.

This is still a mystery to me - that Summit isn't filled with rentals. As said, it's a long tradition around a lot of Vermont mountains to join a ski house, and Tahoe has a lot of houses filled with groups from Frisco. So why do Denver people put up with that Sunday night shit?

And, fur krist's sake, saying that November thru April in Summit is somehow streching the season just shows how spoiled you are. Don't you get dumps at both ends?

[smmokan]

This year we did... but last year would have been a waste of money. I was just saying that for most people, November thru April is longer than needed. With all the holiday crap going on in Nov/Dec, if people come up to ski, its usually a day trip- and traffic isn't bad then anyways. Plus, paying for all of April is tough since A-Basin and Loveland are the only ones open after the second week of April.

That being said, if I could find an affordable rental that would allow me to have my dogs with me, I'd be all over it like stink on shit.

[Danno]

If only it were that easy to lease during the ski season. Its really not that affordable unless you can get 8-10 people to go in with you, and you usually have to pay from November thru April, when you don't need it for about 1.5 months of that.

Ummm, I am on year 5 of the seasonal rental. As for affordability, it's all relative. The first year I paid $1200 (6 people and $1200/mo for 6 months) but I was naive then, it's gotten much cheaper. Yes, you do need 8-10 people to get it really cheap, but I now pay ~$600 (or less) for the whole season. Sometimes I have managed to get a 5 month rental (mid-Nov to mid-Apr) and other times it has been for 6 months. Winter Park is a little cheaper and folks up there seem a bit more flexible (I have been in WP the last 2 seasons) but good rentals can easily be found in Wildernest in Silverthorne (where my first 3 were). It may not be "easy", but it isn't exactly difficult either. And I too have a dog.

I am happy to give insight or advice to anyone who wants to know more details, just PM me, don't want to derail this discussion much more.

[Benny Profane]

Plus, paying for all of April is tough since A-Basin and Loveland are the only ones open after the second week of April.

OK, just to put things in perspective, I'm actually thinking of flying out then just to ski A Basin and Loveland. Nuttin' open here. Shit, barely anything open now.

[jrbd]

So far, almost the only issues I've seen concern everybodies rush to get up & down the hill w/ lots of great ideas & discussion about how to do it best. But what about some of the other issues; Environmental impacts, economic...???
Environmentally, I-70 has fucked that stretch bad - read some tree rings & note the ones since I-70 was built...
Economically, I'd say a lot of Clear Creek Cnty. was devistated when it was built.
I would have thought there would be a lil' more said about these issues from this crowd.

OK, I'll bite.

My environmental ethic has evolved considerably over the past decade or so. I used to believe that preservation of backcountry, species, etc., was a laudable end in itself. Upon reflection, though, I've observed that:
a) Fossil fuels are a momentary interruption in Earth's history, geologically speaking
b) Ecological diversity is actually enhanced by periodic extinction events
c) I'm only here for a few decades more, and don't believe in an afterlife
d) I'm only 1/5-billionth of the total problem (humanity)
e) I like forests, unpolluted streams, uncrowded mountaintops
f) For the time being, I can afford to ski, and it's my favorite activity

From a purely selfish perspective, I think preserving wilderness is a good thing. But also out of selfishness, I want to be able to get there conveniently (i.e. without wasting much more of my remaining time sitting in traffic).

One solution would be to get rid of some of those other "gapers" (via tolls, traffic throttling, raising lift ticket prices, backcountry permits, fee demos, whatever). But my sense of fairness tells me that this isn't a good solution; after all, I'm just one of the gapers myself, and why should I have some preferential access over the other 4 million front rangers? Should money buy access to federal lands? Doesn't seem right.

So, we're left with increasing traffic flow, providing more parking, opening more lift-served terrain, basically what's going on now. Things like monorails and buses will help make the Colorado day-tripper experience incrementally better, so I'm vaguely in favor. Ecologically, though, I don't really care one way or the other.

In the long (geological time) term, the I-70 corridor will recover its pristine beauty. I'll be long gone, though (and so will the cars and our current hyper-energy-hungry society). For now, I'll keep driving to the slopes in the crowds, since that's what I like to do, and there are plenty of uncrowded mountains and valleys to satisfy my summertime wilderness needs. Good enough.

As for economic impact: that area has never had a long-term stable economic base anyway, at least not since Europeans settled the area, so I don't consider that an issue. I'm sure those of you trying to make a living in the area would disagree, but that's life in a free-market economy. Flame away...

[Ireallyliketoski2]

What about installing a conveyor belt on top of the highway that moved at a constant 45 miles per hour?

[Kya]

A transit system is the only solution.

Luckily I live in Bailey, on the 285 side of things and get to use that road to access most mountains without much traffic to deal with. I would be sad to see 285 become a new I-70. I would not be sad to see a train or futurisitic train blowing by me at 100 mph, on 285 or I-70. Seems worth the $$$$$ to me.

Why are Americans so stubborn about their damn cars and where and when to drive them?

[meatdrink9]

I found the ultimate solution to the problem earlier this year. Move. Once funken and I were in the car for 5 hours coming home from Vail. Once skiing becomes that large of a chore I start to dislike it. You have to battle crowds to getto the hill, you have to battle crowds on the hill, you have pay to park. It's a joke. I was really getting soured on skiing. It was just too much effort for not enough reward out there. Now I jump in the car, drive 25 miles in 25 minutes, park a few hundred feet from the lift, never pay a dime to park and walk onto every lift. All-of-a-sudden I'm in love with skiing again.

[Danno]

I found the ultimate solution to the problem earlier this year. Move. Once funken and I were in the car for 5 hours coming home from Vail. Once skiing becomes that large of a chore I start to dislike it. You have to battle crowds to getto the hill, you have to battle crowds on the hill, you have pay to park. It's a joke. I was really getting soured on skiing. It was just too much effort for not enough reward out there. Now I jump in the car, drive 25 miles in 25 minutes, park a few hundred feet from the lift, never pay a dime to park and walk onto every lift. All-of-a-sudden I'm in love with skiing again.

where is this heaven of which you speak?

[Mountain Junkie]

where is this heaven of which you speak?

Eldora! BWAHHHAA!

If Eldora was Snowbasin....

Yeah, I wholeheartedly agree with MD9 about how much of a buzzkill it can be sometimes. For me, the solution is backcountry skiing (and the occasional epic weekend roadtrip). I had to find something to keep the stoke alive, because other than my love of skiing, I don't have much to fall back on in life .

[sea2ski]

I think I've found my new career. Building the world's longest fastest Gondola from Morrison to Loveland.

[riderspro]

Well I had plenty of time to ponder this one sitting in my vehicle for 6 (six) hours trying to get home from Vail last night. Yes, the snow was the best I have seen in a long time. The storm was rocking, so it cleared the gapers out by 11 or Noon. Good times. Then on the road home, not good times. Sitting in my vehicle with the stolen and not replaced stereo. Pulling into the gas station on empty realizing that I had forgotten my wallet.

(Thanks a bunch BZ and Brett, for offering to loan me some cash, I appreciate it a lot, but found some spare change and thought it would be enough to get me home. I made it, on fumes. Also had the brainstorm that I might be able to buy some gas on my brothers credit card via telephone, not sure if it would have worked, but it was a backup plan)

For some reason, Kenosha Pass was closed, so no luck in going over Hoosier. LP was closed, so no luck getting around that part, and to add insult to injury, Dillon dam road was even closed.

So I read most every post in this thread I think. There were a few good ideas tossed out.

I don't remember seeing anything about law enforcement. (or I missed it) Anyone that knows me would think that a funny comment coming from me, not a real big fan.

But after spending one hour getting from Vail to close to the top of VP, I come up on this barrio beater f-250 dually towing TWO cars up the side of VP in a snowstorm. This guy stole an hour of my life. He was moving at maybe 10mph, and no-one was in front of him.

Why did highway patrol not spot this guy and get him off of the road?

Between that guy and the several two wheel rear drive POS vehicles out there (like the 1980's Mazda b-210 truck with no weight in the back) it made for one hell of a drive. I think it would have been significantly improved if the laws that were in place were enforced. There was a chain law in effect. Chains for everyone without 4wd and adequate snow tires for everyone.

Anyone?

[HikeforTurns]

that was the worst traffic I have ever seen. I left Copper at 2pm (Spaulding Bowl was great) and the jam started at Frisco. It took me 3 1/2 hours to get to Denver. Unfucking believable.