CO. mags - your favorite traffic problem discussed....

[lemon boy]

Unfortunately, this whole discussion begs the overriding question:

How (if) do we want to provide or limit people's access to certain types/areas of recreation?

Do we want sacrifice sites and use density in some areas to trade for low use hard to access areas.... or spread out medium use density.


???????????????????????????????????????????????

Where oh where shall the people live?

[Tippster]

Lyle Lanley: Well, sir, there's nothing on earth
Like a genuine,
Bona fide,
Electrified,
Six-car
Monorail!
What'd I say?

Ned Flanders: Monorail!

Lyle Lanley: What's it called?

Patty+Selma: Monorail!

Lyle Lanley: That's right! Monorail!

[crowd chants `Monorail' softly and rhythmically]

Miss Hoover: I hear those things are awfully loud...

Lyle Lanley: It glides as softly as a cloud.

Apu: Is there a chance the track could bend?

Lyle Lanley: Not on your life, my Hindu friend.

Barney: What about us brain-dead slobs?

Lyle Lanley: You'll be given cushy jobs.

Abe: Were you sent here by the devil?

Lyle Lanley: No, good sir, I'm on the level.

Wiggum: The ring came off my pudding can.

Lyle Lanley: Take my pen knife, my good man.

I swear it's Springfield's only choice...
Throw up your hands and raise your voice!

All: Monorail!

Lyle Lanley: What's it called?

All: Monorail!

Lyle Lanley: Once again...

All: Monorail!

Marge: But Main Street's still all cracked and broken...

Bart: Sorry, Mom, the mob has spoken!

All: Monorail!
Monorail!
Monorail!

[big finish]

Monorail!

Homer: Mono... D'oh!

[cj001f]

Unfortunately, this whole discussion begs the overriding question:

How (if) do we want to provide or limit people's access to certain types/areas of recreation?

Do we want sacrifice sites and use density in some areas to trade for low use hard to access areas.... or spread out medium use density.


???????????????????????????????????????????????

Where oh where shall the people live?

Easy there tiger. You've sprung the urban planning debate a bit too quickly after the mass transport discussion. People might begin to think of California...

[Lurch]

Ask Ogdenville or North Haverbrook how much they like theirs.

Niles seems to like his

http://www.monorails.org/tMspages/Niles.html

[Cornholio]

Modular busses! Modular busses!

Seriously, I don't think the busway is a bad idea at all, modular or no.

I like the double-deckering of the road, of course... Glenwood canyon is a masterful example of how well this can go. Of course, that project was years late and several lottery tickets over budget.

[Tippster]

Actually I would love to see a Mag-Lev train. Those things would kick serious ass, and cut the commute to what, 20 minutes from Downtown to say Dillon?

[smmokan]

This discussion is great and all, but I think the process is far enough along where CDOT has selected their preferred alternative and it's selective widening and a guided busway. Idaho Springs, when widened, will probably go 'stacked' like Glenwood Canyon.

Selective widening? So we're looking at different sections where the highway goes from 2 lanes to 3, then a few miles later it goes back down to 2? That's great. There will be a backup at each one of those when it goes from 3 to 2.

[smmokan]

Just for reference, how is the traffic in UT on the way to the ski resorts? If it isn't bad, then you have your answer right there- $1000 season passes.

[The Dude]

problem w/ mag-lev is the change in elevations along the roadway. those that exist right now have very little change in grade. although 20 minute travel would kick ass

[Tippster]

Lloyd: It's 8 miles of access road up a dead end canyon. Different beast entirely.

Dude: PSHAW. I spit on your elevations:

[jrbd]

I like the idea of turning 285 into a 4 lane highway all the way to BV with connection to I70 over Hoosier Pass and through Leadville.

Why not to Breckenridge over Boreas Pass? The elevation is similar to Hoosier pass, and it'd be shorter.

Of course, any solution that requires a 5-mile-long tunnel is DOA, since it would probably cost too much. Either Hoosier or Boreas routes would require going through Breckenridge otherwise, which is already clogged at ski-time rush hours.

[Danno]

Just for reference, how is the traffic in UT on the way to the ski resorts? If it isn't bad, then you have your answer right there- $1000 season passes.

and how would that reduce summer traffic, which is way worse than winter traffic?

[Mybad!]

That's it. Drain the Oceans.

[Mountain Junkie]

Couple mistaken assumptions here:



First of all, let's start to use the technology that already exists out there. You're assuming that just because I said "toll" means I want to build toll plazas per the norm. Time to think differently.

Actually, I wasn't. I imagine there would be a variable fee to discourage peak travel.

And oh but wait, that shiny brand new bus system on the directed flow lane that gets built later if needed picks up right there at the massive free parking RTD park and ride at the base of 70, just to make you think a third time about driving yourself up.

That I agree with.

With no traffic, it's a 1.5 hour drive into Summit County, + or - depending on final destination. With traffic, it can, realitically, be a 4 hour drive.

You have the option to drive your car up between the hours of 7am and 10am at a cost of $15 and back between 3:00pm and 6:00pm at a cost of $15, or you can pay $5 round trip at other times of the day. Your car can comfortably fit 3 people and gear, including you.

What do you do?

Okay, let's modify your game.
You have the option to drive your car up between the hours of 7am and 10am and sit in traffic for 3 hours and back between 3:00pm and 6:00pm at and sit in traffic for 3 hours or you spend three hours round trip at other times of the day. Your car can comfortably fit 3 people and gear, including you.

What do most people do? Sit in traffic. Your cumulative $30 toll will have the same effect on people's behavior, ie nothing. The toll needs to be something outrageous, like > $50 during peak times, UNLESS you have 4 or more people in a car, then the toll is waived. But, I agree that this stinks of exclusivity.

[lemon boy]

and how would that reduce summer traffic, which is way worse than winter traffic?

Fee Demo x 100 BEYOTCH!

[smmokan]

Knock on wood, but apparently I've been driving a different I-70 this year. I've been skiing just about every weekend (granted, its usually only once/wknd) and I haven't taken 3 hrs to get to Summit Co from Boulder. In fact, it hasn't taken more than 2 hours. Maybe its because I'm smart and take US-6 thru the canyon near Golden, but I don't get it. I usually leave at 6:30, and am in SuCo by 8:15-8:30 at the latest. On the way home, I either take off early (before 3:00) or stick around and go home late (5:30-6:00). It isn't that hard.

I can't speak to the summer driving because I haven't ventured up I-70 much then, but the few times I did last year I had no problems.

[golden powder]

I don't see how you could force ski resorts to raise their season pass prices. I think that might be collusion (COMMUNISTS!!!!). Also, every year I've been here I've seen the season passes go up 10$/yr. Give it time and the market will equalize itself (season passes will go way up OR CDOT expands I-70 OR numbers of mountain visitors drop OR most likely a combination). I'd say we're pretty close to equilibrium as it is, or maybe I chose my days and hours of travel using my brain and past experiences. (or maybe I'm used to Houston traffic problems)

[Danno]

Knock on wood, but apparently I've been driving a different I-70 this year. I've been skiing just about every weekend (granted, its usually only once/wknd) and I haven't taken 3 hrs to get to Summit Co from Boulder. In fact, it hasn't taken more than 2 hours. Maybe its because I'm smart and take US-6 thru the canyon near Golden, but I don't get it. I usually leave at 6:30, and am in SuCo by 8:15-8:30 at the latest. On the way home, I either take off early (before 3:00) or stick around and go home late (5:30-6:00). It isn't that hard.

I can't speak to the summer driving because I haven't ventured up I-70 much then, but the few times I did last year I had no problems.

If it isn't bad, why do we need $1000 passes?

The canyon vs I-70 doesn't make much difference, and I can't speak to weekend mornings or evenings because I usually go up Friday night and come back Sunday after ~ 7:00pm.

summer traffic is different, because the times are not as defined. There isn't likely to be traffic going into the mountains, but sunday afternoons/evenings can be brutal. If you drove back at those times on a Sunday and din't hit traffic, you were lucky.

[Cornholio]

I've been skiing just about every weekend (granted, its usually only once/wknd) and I haven't taken 3 hrs to get to Summit Co from Boulder. In fact, it hasn't taken more than 2 hours.

Well, yer fucked. Keep that tank full, buddy.

[smmokan]

If it isn't bad, why do we need $1000 passes?

The canyon vs I-70 doesn't make much difference, and I can't speak to weekend mornings or evenings because I usually go up Friday night and come back Sunday after ~ 7:00pm.

summer traffic is different, because the times are not as defined. There isn't likely to be traffic going into the mountains, but sunday afternoons/evenings can be brutal. If you drove back at those times on a Sunday and din't hit traffic, you were lucky.

Just a suggestion.

I believe it does make a difference (I-70 vs Us-6). It seems a lot of times there is a huge backup around Evergreen. I know there was a few weeks ago when it took my friend 3.5 hrs to get to A-Basin from Denver and it took me 1hr 45min.

[Yossarian]

agreed, the buildup on 6 is actually a bit later than on 70 in the AM.

[Danno]

ok, well, what do I know, I'm going from memory of years ago before I started going up on Friday nights.

On the way back, however, the canyon is usually slower, fucking casino monkeys going 20 miles per hour.

[funkendrenchman]

Seems like the same conversation we have 2-3 times a year... anyway.....

Anyone notice the traffic getting worse this year? Last weekend the traffic was backed up to Golden. In 5 years, I have never seen that before. I try to go up Friday nights as much as possible, but even then, there is still quite a bit of traffic, but it doesn't really slow ya down.

As for the 6 VS 70 debate, 70 is always faster on the way back. On the way there, it is a toss up, but if 70 gets clogged you can get around it.

[golden powder]

Last weekend the traffic was backed up to Golden. In 5 years, I have never seen that before.

I went up Sunday, basically had 70 and abasin to myself. Almost felt like I was missing something important

[jrbd]

On the way back, however, the canyon is usually slower, fucking casino monkeys going 20 miles per hour.

On the way back, the backup generally disappears right where 6 branches off, since I-70 goes to three lanes.