Canuckistan: Election '06, Who will it be?

[bigtrubs]

For all you Canadians out there, it'll be an interesting night seeing who will be taking over the reigns of our fair country:

The woman haters
The money swindlers
The Potheads
The Socialists
British Saskatchalbertatoba

(delicately named by a friend of mine)

What do you think?

[EstoBum]

We merged with pakistan? I guess that explains all those indian-looking guys in my grad classes.

[f2f]

it really doesn't matter who wins. canada will still be one of the finest countries in the world when it comes to politics. my european friends chuckle and american friends look in amazement when i quote the CBC interview of someone from the previous government: "oh, did I call him an idiot? i'm sorry, I should've called him an imbecile"

everyone who has watched what "this hour has 22 minutes" and politicians do together, should know this

to quote someone who knows: "it will be really, REALLY difficult to screw up canada no matter who's in charge"

(ok, i admit i miss canada... )

[bigtrubs]

Well, a Conservative minority of women-haters it is!

[gravy]

think I would have rathered a money swindler minority with a woman hater or socialist opposition... wonder if the potheads will ever win any seats?

[bigtrubs]

I think British Saskatchalbertatoba (Western Bloc) would be a pretty sweet setup. We're the ones with all the industry and the good skiing anyway.

[Shaggy]

Looks like the greens went down from last time, 4.5% popular vote versus something like 5% before. They'll still get their $1.75 per vote though.

Speaking of votes, looks like turnout went up by 5%. Score one for democracy.

Can't say I'm sad to see PMPM go, that guy was way too pompus.

[fridge]

I'm still trying to figure out how my province is so dead-set on voting NDP provincially, but is completely dominated federally by the conservatives.

[Shaggy]

I'm still trying to figure out how my province is so dead-set on voting NDP provincially, but is completely dominated federally by the conservatives.

I was wondering that about my province (ON) too. We usually vote conservative provincially (mark my words, Dalton will be history come the next provincial poll), but Liberal federally.

[Canuk]

I find it hard to believe that anyone could have possibly voted Liberal this time around...all they have done over the last 13 years is lied to Canadians, stolen from us, and basically laughed in our faces when questioned about it (Dingwall and his 'entitlement' speach, Martin denying any knowledge of the sponsorship deal, HRDC screw-up, out of control gun registry costs etc.) It's sad that people would rather bring back the same party that has consistantly screwed over Canadian tax payers than look to alternatives, whoever they may be.

[LeeLau]

Im just really sad that the Rhino party is no more. The alternatives we have are an effing joke

[Mott the Hoople]

Tuesday, Jan. 24, 2006 2:59 p.m. EST

Canada's Crime Rate 50 % Higher than U.S.

Press reports that Canada is a Shangri-la – an America with free health care and less crime – may be short sighted.

In fact, statistics show that the violent crime rate there is double that of the United States.

It seems Canada is looking for a scapegoat, too: Outgoing Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin is blaming the United States for his country’s violent crime wave. He says his southern neighbor is eagerly bringing guns over the border.

According to the Second Amendment Foundation’s Alan Gottlieb, writing in the Fort Worth Star-Telegram, Martin is wrong for blaming Canada’s rise in violent crime on criminals smuggling guns from the United States.

Gottlieb says the blame instead belongs on Canadian crooks getting guns from wherever they can.

"Blaming the United States for Canadian crime is an argument that does not pass the smell test,” Gottlieb wrote. "Canada's experience has simply demonstrated that no matter what kind of gun control law a government passes, that law is doomed to failure because instead of keeping guns out of the wrong hands, the law disarms the wrong people. Canada's gun control scheme has not just failed - it has failed disastrously. Clear evidence of that can be found in a comparison of the crime rates for Canada and America.”

Gottlieb cites an article by Canada's National Post columnist David Frum where he revealed that "Canada's overall crime rate is now 50 percent higher than the crime rate in the United States.” Moreover, "Since the early 1990s, crime rates have dropped in 48 of the 50 states and 80 percent of American cities. Over that same period, crime rates have risen in six of the 10 Canadian provinces and in seven of Canada’s 10 biggest cities.”

He also cites the most recent complete data available from both countries that shows that in 2003, the violent crime rate in the United States was 475 per 100,000 people; while up north, there were 963 violent crimes per 100,000 people. The figure for sexual assault in Canada per 100,000 people was more than double that of the United States: 74 as opposed to 32.1; and the assault rate in Canada was also more than twice that of the states: 746 to America's 295 for the people.

Moreover, he cites research that showed the figure for sexual assault in Canada per 100,000 people was more than double that of the United States: 74 as opposed to 32.1; and the assault rate in Canada was more than twice that of the United States: 746 to America’s 295. Also, in 2005, Toronto had 78 murders; that’s a 28 percent increase in homicides since 1995.

"The situation hasn't improved for Canada; it has here,” he wrote.

"Moreover, this shift in crime rates between the two countries has occurred while dozens of U.S. states have adopted ‘right-to-carry’ and ‘shall-issue’ handgun laws. During the same period, Canada’s gun laws have gotten more restrictive, with the national gun registry being implemented,” he added.

"Since declaring war on guns under former Prime Minister Jean Chretien, Canada's Liberals have presided over the sharpest rise in violent crime in the nation’s history.”

Gottlieb wrote that "Frum put it best when he claimed, ‘Gun registration and gun bans ... do not work,’ adding later: ‘It is not guns from across the border that threaten Canadians. It is the weak and cynical policies of home-grown politicians, and especially the Chretien/Martin Liberals.’”

Martin and the Liberals are not the solution to violent crime in Canada, Gottlieb wrote. "They're the problem.”

Gottlieb concluded that "the disparity in crime rates says it all about how well gun registration works to stop crime, as opposed to actually carrying guns to deter criminals, and fighting back if necessary.”

[bigtrubs]

An interesting study on crime rates can be found in the book Freakonomics, by some guy whose name I forget, but I just read it over christmas break. Anyway, he says that one lawsuit in the USA is responsible for the drop in crime rates down there. That suit was regarding women's right to abortion, and when it passed, it meant fewer unwanted babies were being born into poverty and therefore it directly led to the drop in crime. The Conservatives, while a minority, are against abortion, so if new laws are to pass, we may see an increase in crime, but also an increased crack down by police. Interesting....

[Shaggy]

(Dingwall and his 'entitlement' speach, Martin denying any knowledge of the sponsorship deal, HRDC screw-up, out of control gun registry costs etc.)

You forgot immigration visas for strippers..... ohh wait, you were talking about the bad things they did...

Apparently the AG is due to release a more detailed report on the gun registry when paraliment resumes. Rumored to be a bombshell.

Canada's Crime Rate 50 % Higher than U.S.

As they say, 93% of all statistics are made up on the spot...

Property crime has been higher in Canada for a long time, it's the violent crime that's suddenly on the increase. It's at the point where in many cities, stabbings simply don't make the news anymore.

In Winnipeg a gangster kid killed someone with an "eight ball", which is a billard ball in a sock (modern version of the mace) and a gang weapon of choice in that city. The kid got sentanced to ONE DAY in jail because of the new youth justice act the Liberals shit out. ONE DAY for deliberately, intentionally killing someone. I'm not the lock-em-up-and-throw-away-the-key type (read: not a social conservative), but one day for murder is just wrong. Talk about wrong messages.

The Conservatives, while a minority, are against abortion, so if new laws are to pass,

Won't happen; a) While no party wants to see another election too soon, they won't stand for the abortion issue being re-opened either. b) Lets face it, we're going back to the polls within 2 years... If they try to ram totalitarian legislation through, they'll be punished for sure. and c) Many conservative MPs are not socially conservative (expecially true of former PC MPs), and wouldn't support an abortion ban. Ohh, there's d) as well: The mere mention of the word "Abortion" in politics in Canada is equivilent to swallowing a big jug of Drāno, total suicide.

It's definately good they're only a minority. They need to prove themselves. I'm hoping they do well.

(Not that I'm interested in politics or anything.... )

[golden powder]

I wish US political discussions could be kept in here in the padded room where they belong.

And yeah, banning guns = crime rate increase, not a big surprise. I always point to switzerland as a great "more guns and a properly trained population = less crime" example

[rossibandit]

Yesterday 11:09 PM

Canuk

I find it hard to believe that anyone could have possibly voted Liberal this time around...all they have done over the last 13 years is lied to Canadians, stolen from us, and basically laughed in our faces when questioned about it (Dingwall and his 'entitlement' speach, Martin denying any knowledge of the sponsorship deal, HRDC screw-up, out of control gun registry costs etc.) It's sad that people would rather bring back the same party that has consistantly screwed over Canadian tax payers than look to alternatives, whoever they may be.

The Conservatives lost 7 seats in BC, two the liberals and 5 to the NDP. Not everyone shares your views in this country. I don't know why, but the Conservatives and Harper scare me. Too many of the right winged freaks from the old Alliance and Reform are still there and are pretty scary. They are going to be vocal and have quite the right wing agenda. Hopefully, the conservative government has a short term. Things havn't been too bad with the Liberals. We don't need to be dealing with issuses like gun control, abortion, and same sex marriage again

I predict that Liberals will come back next term with Belinda Stronach as the leader and form a majority government. I really get tried of Alberta complaining that they are ingnored by Ottawa. I like things the way there are in the West right now.

[Shaggy]

Things havn't been too bad with the Liberals. We don't need to be dealing with issuses like gun control, abortion, and same sex marriage again

Agreed on SSM, and abortion, but the gun control law isn't working. Toronto just experienced the "year of carnage", and you know why? Because criminals don't register thier guns.

As far as things not being "too bad" with the Liberals... let's go down the list:

• $2 BILLION, (NOT MILLION, BILLION) for a gun registry: A computer database that keeps a list of names and addresses.
• Complete inaction on softwood lumber
• Complete inaction on the mad cow crisis
• $100's of millions to ad agencies, and other liberal-freindly firms. Much of this money was funneled back to the Liberal party, to give them a competitive edge against other parties. That's right, they used tax-payer's cash to win elections. You expect that kinda shit in third world dictatorships, but not here in 1st world Canada. I'm pro SSM, pro-choice, and libertarian in general. BUT, protecting our democracy comes before anything else. I don't think SSM is going away, nor are abortion rights. We as citizens can't protect our other rights if our democracy has failed. People have fought and died in wars to protect the democracy we enjoy. The liberals feel they're 'entitled' to power, they needed to be shown otherwise.
• The HRDC boondoggle.
• Liberal Candiates (Judy Sgro) getting immigration visas for strippers and others approved in return for those individuals working on thier campaign teams. Again, using thier power in government to gain advantage against other parties in elections.
• A finance minister droping insider trading information to liberal contributers, even though he knew an election was looming. They truly believed that kind of behaviour was O.K.
• Campagining to remove section 33 from the charter. Stupid stupid stupid. Did you know that the supreme court struck down (in quebec) the parts of the Canada Health Act that prohibit paying for private health services, because according to the court, it violates the right to life and security of the person promised in the quebec charter? That decision opens the door wide to private heath care and can easily be applied to section 7 of the Canadian Charter, making the descsion a national concern. Without Section 33, there is NOTHING paraliment can do to protect health care. The Liberals wanted to remove the ability to do so. It was a stupid campaign promise anyways, considering the past 2 attempts to amend the constitution failed, but hey, they were going to try! Idiots. Just proves that they'd say ANYTHING to stay in power, I guess. It wouldn't be so bad if they wern't also campagining as the "defenders" of health care.
  
• They cancaled the sea-king helicopter replacement program, for strictly partisan reasons. Our search and rescue crews have been using 50 year old, archaic, unsafe, and crumbling hardware as a result.
• They've decimated our military to the point we no longer have any clout on the international stage.
• They've insulted the men and women in our military, the people who have signed up to risk thier lives to protect ours, should the need arise.
• They've outright insulted and incited tense relations with the U.S. Comments from thier M.Ps about the Americans being "idiots" were allowed to stand. Yes, we're a soverign nation, and yes, living next door to a giant can cause some concern about that soverignty. Still no excuse to be rude though.
• Youth Criminal Justice Act. Thanks to the Liberals, you can commit a gang killing and get just one day in jail, as long as you're under 18.
• Paul Martin, whose shipping company's ships are being systematicaly re-registered in foriegn countries, to avoid the high taxes here. The same high taxes that Paul Martin and the liberals before him (Trudeau) helped increase.
• Paul Martin (again!), who claims to be a quebeker, but was really born in Windsor, On.
• Paul Martin (It's a trend!), you can just tell this guy doesn't believe in anything other than money and power. Same with Creatin. Power and greed, definately a Liberal trait.
• Belinda Stronach. Enough said.

I could go on, but this is getting long. The list of bad things the Liberals HAVE DONE is huge. The list of the "scary things" the conservatives MIGHT DO is small. Yet people are willing to vote agaisnt the conservatives for what they might do, even though the liberals have, and might continue to keep on cheating us.

It has to be said, Harper is a patriot. He believes in what he is doing. Martin on the otherhand, well, he's been nicknamed "Mr. Dithers" for good reason.

Sorry, but I just don't understand how anyone could have voted Liberal. That 30% of the population is horribly under-informed is about all I can think of.

I predict that Liberals will come back next term with Belinda Stronach as the leader and form a majority government.

Hmm, If Belinda ever becomes PM... ugh.. I just can't fathom it, serriously, my mind just refuses to entertain the thought. She's just such a spineless person.

I saw her on TV on election night and the reporter had asked her what she planned to do in opposition, and she gave what was obviously a completely pre-canned mini-speach designed to become a sound-bite. The reporter then asked if she planned to run for the Liberal leadership, should Martin resign (this was before he announced he would), and she then repeated the exact same mini-speach, which had obviously been prepared for her. The reporter said "Spoken like a true politian, you're just not going to give me an answer". If Belinda wasn't born into wealth, she'd be nothing.

As for predictions ... I predict that the Conservatives will prove to be not as scary as they've been made out to be, and they'll score a majority in the next election.

My $0.02.

[gravy]

well I tend to thinnk that I am not under informed... and I'm wondering if you were reading the calgary sun with their 106 reasons to not vote liberal. Personally I couldn't bring myself to look at the thing, think I may need to find a new province to live in; I'm getting a little tired of having conservative propaganda rammed down my throat at every opportunity. Since I'm tired and my head hurts I'm just going to grab on to a couple points -
You're conveniently forgetting how we ended up with the GST a tax which ends up being effectively higher as a percentage of ones take home pay the less one makes (not exactly progressive). As poor a decision as it was to cancel the sea king replacement program and then re-instate it shortly after it was one of their campaign promises, one of the reasons they were elected and they stuck to it. When did they ever slight the men and women of our military? They keep us out of iraq, a war supported by the conservatives. What exactly would you suggest they should have done in the mad cow crisis, seems to me special interest groups in the U.S. courts had more to do with the border staying closed than Paul Martin. Should the farmer have followed ralphies conservative advice and shot, shoveled and shut up? Not to mention the conservatives position on abortion and minority rights is a touch backwards for my taste.
What has it been 12 years of liberal power, yep some things won't go their way. I'm pretty sure I could find plenty that went wrong with the last conservative government too, but I'm going to bed.

[bigtrubs]

I unfortunately found things wrong with every single platform. I want to make my own party. I basically went with the party that I disliked the least. I think you all have some really good arguments, and I'm sorry that I don't really have a lot to add but I'm enjoying reading this.

We'll have to see how things go in the coming months...

[rossibandit]

Shaggy

Hmm, If Belinda ever becomes PM... ugh.. I just can't fathom it, serriously, my mind just refuses to entertain the thought. She's just such a spineless person.

I saw her on TV on election night and the reporter had asked her what she planned to do in opposition, and she gave what was obviously a completely pre-canned mini-speach designed to become a sound-bite. The reporter then asked if she planned to run for the Liberal leadership, should Martin resign (this was before he announced he would), and she then repeated the exact same mini-speach, which had obviously been prepared for her. The reporter said "Spoken like a true politian, you're just not going to give me an answer". If Belinda wasn't born into wealth, she'd be nothing.

As for predictions ... I predict that the Conservatives will prove to be not as scary as they've been made out to be, and they'll score a majority in the next election.

My $0.02.

Hmm, all the conservative candidates were very scripted this election and toed the party line with pre-canned statements. Not one of them accidently let out a crazy right wing statement. Those guys and gals were on quite the tight lease. I really like to know a person personal views before I vote to let them represent me in Ottawa. We will see if things stay the same since they are now forming the government. Thankfully, its just a minority government and if they get too crazy with a right wing agenda, the Bloc, NDP and Liberals can motion for a vote of non confedence.

Its ironic to read the paper headlines during and after the election. The Calgary Papers are pretty partisan in there views, where the National Post and Globe and Mail are pretty netural in there pollitical views. IMHO, Canada needs a leader of the likes of Pierre Trudeau again. I really get tired of Alberta crying a sob story of beening ignored by Ottawa. I like how things are in British Columbia presently and things don't seem that bad in Alberta last time I checked. If you really want attention from Ottawa, why not move there.

[rossibandit]

Shaggy

Paul Martin (It's a trend!), you can just tell this guy doesn't believe in anything other than money and power. Same with Creatin. Power and greed, definately a Liberal trait.

Yes, Jean Chretien, believes in money, power, and greed as a Liberal Trait


Joseph Jacques Jean Chrétien, PC, QC, BA, LL.L, LL.D (born January 11, 1934) was the twentieth Prime Minister of Canada, serving from November 4, 1993, to December 12, 2003.

Born in Shawinigan, Quebec as the 18th of 19 children, Jean Chrétien studied law at Université Laval. Chrétien would later make light of his humble origins, calling himself the "little guy from Shawinigan". In his youth, he suffered an attack of Bell's palsy, leaving the left side of his face permanently paralyzed. Political opponents, like former Prime Minister Kim Campbell, used this affliction as a basis for political attacks, accusing Chrétien of both figuratively and literally "talking out of the side of his mouth". This tactic was liable to backfire when made insensitively, as it did for the Campbell-led Progressive Conservatives in a 1993 attack ad.

[PlayHarder]

This conservative vs liberal debate is entertaining. They're all politicians that care about nothing more than what they need to do get re-elected.

[milkman]

Conservative minority will be a good thing. The Liberals will regroup with a new leader and will win another majority in 2 years. The current conservative win was just a protest vote. Most Canadians align themselves with the Liberal party's values. The Liberals are not perfect by any means, but the social conservatism of the Conservative party is just scary. They ran extreme right wing candidates (Focus on the Family Christian evengelicals) in North Van, West Van and Richmond and lost all three seats. West Van hasn't been Liberal in about 15 years, but once again the ugly evangelical side of the Conservatives showed itself and the people responded. The Conservatives have to change a lot for me to ever vote for them. They're still too similar to the old Reform/Alliance party. Joe Clark left when the conservative merge happened for a reason. I say they dump all the religious conservatives (including Harper), let Peter Mackay run the party and then I'd consider voting for them if the Liberals screwed up.

[Shaggy]

I really like to know a person personal views before I vote to let them represent me in Ottawa. We will see if things stay the same since they are now forming the government.

Alright then. What exactly is Paul Martin's personal view on SSM, abortion, and other hot-button social issues? We know he's a devout Catholic, seems to me he'd be inclined to be personally against such things. But, he knew he had to represent the collective will of the Canadian people. I suspect the same will be of Stephen Harper.

He (Harper) is on record as saying he's against SSM, and abortion. He's also on record as saying he'll hold a free-revote on the SSM issue, but has declared he will not pass laws limiting abortion. I think it's very honast and honourable for him to be up front about his intentions in that regard, even though I disagree with re-banning SSM (or abortion).

Let's not forget, the conservatives are not idiots. They're not going to make a quick-dash to pass radical legislation, a) Because they know doing so will completely nix thier chances at re-election, b) Like I said in a previous post, the CPC membership is not 100% social conservative, at least not anymore. c) Thier successors can always repeal any laws they pass.

Here's some food for thought; during the last week of the campaign, the abortion issue got dragged out and every reporter in the land made a mad dash, crawling over one another in thier fury, to get Stephen Harper's "Personal view" (remember; the CPC had already stated "NO" to re-opening the abortion debate at thier policy convention). Why didn't any of them ask Martin for his "Personal View" on abortion? The media in this country has had a Liberal bias for a very long time now, and it shows.

Thankfully, its just a minority government and if they get too crazy with a right wing agenda, the Bloc, NDP and Liberals can motion for a vote of non confedence.

Agreed. The CPC is still a "new" party. Although even with a majority, they'd have to call an election sometime. Fear of the voter would be a very powerfull motivator to stay away from hot-button social issues.

Its ironic to read the paper headlines during and after the election. The Calgary Papers are pretty partisan in there views, where the National Post and Globe and Mail are pretty netural in there pollitical views.

The media in general in Canada is pretty liberal freindly, with a few holdouts (such as the Citizen in Ottawa). The worst of course is our public broadcaster, the CBC. Want proof? Look at this graph:



This is to be expected of course, the Liberals had 13 years to stuff that board full of freindly directors.

You can see how an aspiring production manager or producer wanting to climb the ladder within CBC would be somewhat inclined to not be too negative about the Liberal party.

Another big Liberal supporter is of course the Asper family, who own the Sun line of papers, Canwest (inc global television), amounst other media outlets.

And let's not forget Moses Zinmer (probably mis-spelt), who controls everything CHUM (city TV, and a pile of radio stations). I'll be honast here and admit I'm only asuming Moses is Liberal, considering the HUGE bias shown by his stations.

IMHO, Canada needs a leader of the likes of Pierre Trudeau again.

Umm, no.

I really get tired of Alberta crying a sob story of beening ignored by Ottawa. I like how things are in British Columbia presently and things don't seem that bad in Alberta last time I checked. If you really want attention from Ottawa, why not move there.

Actually, I do. Just south of it actually. I'm planning on moving out west though :P

The most interesting thing about this election is Quebec. They keep voting for a party that will never be able to represent them in cabinet.

It's no secret that there are some regional differences in Canada. Alberta is largely social conservative, Ontario and Quebec are social liberals.

I'd agree that the "Not being listened to in Ottawa" line heard in Alberta can be loosely translated to "Stop shoving SSM, Abortion, and other sinfull things down our throats and let us get back to thumping our bibles, praise lord!". Mind you, my take is that Trudeau's NEP attempt still has people in the oilfields grumbling, all these years later..

and I'm wondering if you were reading the calgary sun with their 106 reasons to not vote liberal. Personally I couldn't bring myself to look at the thing,

Nope, didn't see it, sorry. That list was drawn up 100% from my own memory. It seems that many people in our country have short memories when it comes to politics, but not I.

think I may need to find a new province to live in; I'm getting a little tired of having conservative propaganda rammed down my throat at every opportunity.

I live in Ontario and am tired of having Liberal propaganda shoved down my throat at every opportunity. I'm also really sick of shallow news reporting that doesn't really tell the whole tale, or that is designed solely to change or solidify opinions.

Since I'm tired and my head hurts I'm just going to grab on to a couple points -
You're conveniently forgetting how we ended up with the GST a tax which ends up being effectively higher as a percentage of ones take home pay the less one makes (not exactly progressive).

I havn't forgotten. It was created by Brian Mulroney's government. IIRC, it also eliminated a pile of confusing, and costly to administer levies and taxes.

Did Canadians end up paying more because of the GST. Yes, but Mulroney really got the short end of the stick, having to clean up after Truedau and Turner had made such a mess of things. (The same can be said of Bob Rae's NDP government in Ontario -- wrong place, wrong time). As a completely non-partisan statement, both Mulroney and Rae did very well given what they were dealt.

The economic success, and budget surpluses of the late ninties and early this decade can be attributed largely to the GST, and other initiatives that Mulroney implemented.

As a final comment on the subject, didn't the Liberal's 1993 red book promise to get rid of the GST? Yes it did. Perhaps Creatin realized that it really was a required evil.

As poor a decision as it was to cancel the sea king replacement program and then re-instate it shortly after it was one of their campaign promises, one of the reasons they were elected and they stuck to it.

It was still a poor decision. It cost us millions to cancal that contract. Of course, that pales to the 100's of millions in ad scam, and $2B long-gun registry.

[EstoBum]

The only party I really care for is the one with kegs

Well it gonna be fun out here in the maritimes. They already bitch about not getting enough say in the federal issues. It's probably gonna get worse with the conservatives, so I gotta listen to the media bitch more. Plus we haven't got any snow yet this winter. WTF did I move here for?