I'm not dead yet.

[Benny Profane]

Wow. Only one reply talks about a radio. Are these things so uncool?

[iskibc]

Frozen,

Glad to hear you are OK. Not a good feeling that morning when you didn't come down from the trail. We should have looked out after each other a little more with all the new snow and potential dangers. Keep your head up and go back out there with confidence.

[britney]

well, frozen, i skiied with iskibc today, and perhaps my new signature line will at least put a smile on your face!

PS IMHO you are doing the right thing by learning what lessons you can and then getting back out there.

[Crinkle]

Frozen, glad to hear that you are ok. I have never fallen in a tree well, but have had similar panic experinces on skis. Get back up there and show'em who's boss. [ass smack to the mtn] "you like that?"[end ass smack]

[Endlessseason]

Originally posted by Benny Profane
Wow. Only one reply talks about a radio. Are these things so uncool?

I use 'em...so they prolly are uncool. According to my kids, pretty much everything I do is uncool.

I'm about to buy another pair of FRS 5 milers. I can get rechargable digital Unidens or Motorolas. They both cost about the same and have the same features.

Anybody have a recommendation on which to get?

[Foggy_Goggles]

Froz, glad to hear your OK. Scary schit. I had a friend die in bounds at Winter Park in a tree well. Massive storm, skiing with a posse, didn't show up at the end of the run, found upside down in a tree well days later.

While beacons, probes and shovels play their part in the safety equation, don't overlook the importance of keeping your eyes on each other. When you are at the area (not BC) the buddy system seems to work well. At the top of the run/pitch/face just tell someone your following them and they need to make sure your with. Increase the structure of the group as the the terrain/situation gets increasingly risky. It's a slippery slope from ski mountaineering to wedging the bunny slope. There is not one set of protocalls for all situations.

Disasters are averted with a compination of sound desicion and proper equipment and knowledge.

Radios - Would have worked (possible) if someone above him had a radio and Froz keyed it in time. Once your below someone, your ability to help in decreased exponentially.

Whistles - Much better than a radio. Can be heard by anyone.

This is what you want, a Fox40. I have one in my chest pocket on a string. Not really the best location, any ideas
http://www.kangasport.com.au/images/fox40_whistle.jpg

[iskibc]

Originally posted by Foggy_Goggles


Whistles - Much better than a radio. Can be heard by anyone.

This is what you want, a Fox40. I have one in my chest pocket on a string. Not really the best location, any ideas
http://www.kangasport.com.au/images/fox40_whistle.jpg

Got mine attached to the shoulder strap of my backpack. Easy access.

[fiddler]

Frozen, glad you came out ok. Hearing stories like yours makes me think a little harder about where I am since I ski solo so much of the time.
Endless, I just got a pair of Uniden 5 milers and so far I like them. Easy to use, a little on the large side but not unmanageable by any means. My son thinks they are cool, he can bug me about giving him money from anywhere on the mountain! I never used to carry one when I was on my own, but the last few weeks I have always kept one with me for safety.
As far as having someone to respond to radio calls Baker patrol monitors 9-11, there are signs around letting people know that. I assumed all patrols would do that on some channel of their choosing. Is that not the case? If not I think it would be a good idea to suggest they do.

[Tresckow]

Glad to hear your alright.

I was in REI this evening shopping for those two-way radios, and picked up two Fox40 whistles for the lady and I. They were 4.50 a piece, which I happily handed over to the cashier.

It's nuking up in BCC right now, so ya'll get after it tomorrow.

[summit]

GLAD YOU ARE ALRIGHT
I hear lots of people get caught in treewells and never get out.

BEACON
If you paid for the fucking beacon, why not wear it at all times on the snow? SAR and ski patrol will do beacon searches in avalanches even if told that the victems were not wearing beacons.

AVALUNG
It does'nt seem like an avalung woulda helped here since he had no warning and therefor no time to put the mouthpiece in... unless you follow that one method where you always have the tube in your mouth... or maybe I'm misunderstanding.

RADIOS
FRS/GMRS radios are as unreliable as cellphones on the mountain. In fact, they are less reliable because a cellphone will go right to 911.

5 Miles is bullshit unless you have true LINE OF SIGHT and even then it can be iffy. I found most FRS radios (all FRS only radios are 0.5W) are effective at ~0.5 average while on the mountain if you don't have true LOS. If you have a FRS/GMRS radio, no matter what its stated output, it will only do 0.5W for channels 8-14. This makes monitoring 9-11 stupid for anyone with a halway decent radio (for the type of radio we are talking about).

Nobody monitors FRS or GMRS channels around here.

Summit County's SAR team has some FRS type radios but they aren't apparently employed unless someone specifically says that a lost victim had one.

Universal monitoring of a single channel and CTCSS code by all resorts does seem like a good idea, but there is nothing to stop people from using that for personal use. Still, something like 6-11 seems like a find choice.

GMRS channel 20-22 (or was that 22-20?) is the unnoficial emergency GMRS channel monitored by some civil defense types, but that monitoring is exceedingly rare even more rare is the possibility that you are in range onf someone who is monitoring with a wimpy 0.5W or 1W GMRS radio.

There are plenty of radios out there that cannot do CTCSS codes and some radios have nonstandard codes. Disabling CTCSS (like channel 9-0 or 4-0 or 18-0) will let yo uhear all traffic on a given channel, CTCSS or not, but if you reply only people with CTCSS disabled or without it on their radios will hear you. Bleh.

The best bet I think is to scan and when you find an active channel/code combo, transmit if you need to be helped. Most of the time you will simply be trying to raise some gaper and convince them to go to a patrol phone.

RADIO SUMMARY

FRS/GMRS are mostly usefull for keeping track of your group and should never be relied upon to summon help due to their unreliability. They are much more likely to summon help in a busy resort vs the backcountry (where chances would be nil).

Much more reliable for the backcountry would be a nonactiave iridium sat phone or a PLB. A VHF/UHF radio would be a good choice too assuming you have a HAM license, know how to use your radio, and know the local repeater input/outputs.

The Motorola T5820 or T5920 seem like a kickass deals on amazon.com at the moment... $50 per PAIR then you get a $25 or $10 rebate. 1W FRS/GMRS radios.

I carry a Motorola T7200 FRS/GMRS radio which does 2W output and is GMRS repeater capable (not that there are any GMRS repeaters around here). Soon (once I find a place to pass the FCC technician exam) I will be carrying a Yaesu VX-7R 5W 4-band VHF/UHF radio.

FINAL THOUGHTS
I think, as was mentioned above, carefull skiinig, close attention to your buddies and a WHISTLE are the best defense against treewell traps.

[Benny Profane]

Well, sure, radios have their downside, but c'mon, they can be a Godsend in the trees just for peace of mind. It's pretty hard to keep that "line of sight", and if and when seperation occurs, just a few words can calm things down if things screw up. That and a cell could save one's ass, if you could get to them.

[britney]

Originally posted by Foggy_Goggles
Froz, glad to hear your OK. Scary schit. I had a friend die in bounds at Winter Park in a tree well. Massive storm, skiing with a posse, didn't show up at the end of the run, found upside down in a tree well days later.

While beacons, probes and shovels play their part in the safety equation, don't overlook the importance of keeping your eyes on each other.

Foggy - I am so sorry about your loss.

Hear, hear on "keeping your eyes on each other." The silver lining on Frozen's shitty experience is that I (for one) will change my behavior when skiing solo. One of the great things about this board is that it reduces the solo days!

[MFI]

Scary shit, glad you pulled out of it. My wife fell into one of those last year at Alta. I was there but got a little freaked out when she didn't pop up after a minute. She was digging down, didn't know which way was up. Freaked her out pretty good. Another minute and I was going to jump in there and get her. We don't have these things where we live.
Right now we don't even have snow.