Have you ever dodged a huge bullet? (wwmd...)

**Canuk** · 01-20-2006, 10:18 AM

In learly November, I sold my 1996 Subaru Legacy LSI to a really nice girl that was a friend of a friend of a friend. I had the subi for 8 years, put 200K + km's on it, and didn't have any major problems at all with it. Regular maintainence, oil changes, timing belt, blah blah blah...all in all it was a great car, and I was mostly sorry to see it go.

Well last night I get a phonecall from said really nice girl wanting to ask me a couple of questions about the car. It seems that a month after she bought the car from me it started to run really REALLY hot. In the 8 years that I drove that car, never once did it even come close to running hot, and I told her that, and said that I didn't know what was going on.

After hanging up, it hit me - head gasket. Poor girl paid decent money for a used car that is now likely pooched. Half of me feels super lucky that I got rid of the car when I did, half of me feels bad that she got stuck with it, and half of me (that's right, I'm 1.5 times a normal man) finds the whole situation pretty funny.

So what do I do? She did have the car checked out by her mechanic prior to buying it, so I don't think I have any duty to refund her money or anything, but do I tell her that it's probably the head gasket, or do I let sleeping dogs lay, and let it go? WWMD?

**lemon boy** · 01-20-2006, 10:20 AM

caveat emptor

but you might mention the HG to her.

**Viva** · 01-20-2006, 10:21 AM

Is she cute?

**hop** · 01-20-2006, 10:29 AM

aha, the phase 1 2.5 strikes again!

**DaveTV** · 01-20-2006, 10:33 AM

Never sell a vehicle to a friend or anyone you know. Sooner or later you hear about it.

**skiguide** · 01-20-2006, 10:37 AM

I believe the correct answer here is:

stick it in her pooperhausen.

seriously, that's great that you feel bad, but if you honestly didn't know the HG was that close to going, then it's not like you screwed her purposely.

but she did chose to buy a car (subaru or not, it doesn't matter) with over 200K on it - and her mechanic didn't find anything wrong with it- though he maybe should have seen signs or at least warned her that cars with over 200K are likely to have major problems in the near future.

the fact that she called you is kind of BS, but friend of a friend i guess makes that somewhat normal. But i'm guessing your mutual friend would have told her you never had issues with the car.

**assgasorgrass** · 01-20-2006, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by Canuk

She did have the car checked out by her mechanic prior to buying it

From what I am learning about these phase I 2.5 motors is that a leak down test and\or pressure test won't catch the internal HG leak. I would point her to ultimatesubaru.net and have to a search on headgaskets. I don't think you're culpable if you actually knew nothing about it. That is the conundrum I am in now. Fix it or trade it in on something. I couldn't sell it private party knowing what I know. I am a little on the fence about trading it in.....

**nutcase** · 01-20-2006, 10:40 AM

Why are you assuming its the head gasket. More often than not on an older car its the radiator and/or the thermostat. Easy fixes. If it was the head gasket that was blown you would probably be able to see bubbles in the radiator reservior when the car is at operating temp (or higher).

**1080Rider** · 01-20-2006, 10:43 AM

Canuk, I don't know your mechanical prowess but if you're up for the task you may offer to help fix it. I don't think you have any obligation to help her but spending a saturday afternoon may make you and her feel better about the transaction. I know that if I sold a car to a friend and something went wrong that I felt I could tackle I'd offer to help out. But, I like doing that shit too. If you're not inclined I'd just tell her what you think it is and have her get on it as soon as possible. If she replaces it she'll prolly avoid a bigger headache in the long run.

**lemon boy** · 01-20-2006, 10:46 AM

NO! Amatuers helping amatuers fix cars, no way jose! He has no responsibility now but boy would he if he fucked it up fixing it.

**shmerham** · 01-20-2006, 10:48 AM

If you sold her a 2002 honda accord with 75,000 km that had been in for 5 significant repairs, you'd owe an explanation. Your car had plenty of years and km's. No further action required.

**Helicrackjnky** · 01-20-2006, 10:48 AM

No es tu problema!! Don't let her problem become yours,her mechanic checked it out,so let her deal with him.

**DaveTV** · 01-20-2006, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by nutcase

Why are you assuming its the head gasket. More often than not on an older car its the radiator and/or the thermostat. Easy fixes. If it was the head gasket that was blown you would probably be able to see bubbles in the radiator reservior when the car is at operating temp (or higher).

It's a Phase I Subaru 2.5 engine with 200k. THAT is why it is assumed it is the head gasket.
------------
This is a very well known problem with Phase I 2.5l engines. Too bad you had inept mechanics. Here's the "Disclaimer" that I posted on several Subaru forums, where head gasket problems are discussed in infinite detail (like 300 threads).

WARNING: If you own a 1996-99 2.5l Subaru with the Phase I engine, the head gaskets are known to fail with little or no warning at 80,000 to 150,000 miles. When they fail, at a minimum you need new head gaskets - $1,200. If you have ignored the warning signs or are unlucky, the engine will require rebuilding at a cost of at least $3,000.

So, you can 1. sell the car right now and buy another economical AWD station wagon (oops - there aren't any others...). 2. replace the head gaskets pre-emptively (that's what I did on one of mine) 3. keep driving it but pay attention to signs of failure or 4. drive it until failure - which may also damage the engine.

Rebuilt engines cost at least $3,000. Used engines are almost impossible to find.

I wonder how many head gasket failures will have to be reported how many times on how many forums before owners of these cars understand they need to treat head gaskets as a maintenance item?

Warning signs include: no warning; intermittent overheating ; coolant smell in exhaust; rough starting and white smoke on start; bubbling in coolant overflow bottle after hard driving; presence of coolant by products in engine oil.

**Canuk** · 01-20-2006, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by nutcase

Why are you assuming its the head gasket. More often than not on an older car its the radiator and/or the thermostat. Easy fixes. If it was the head gasket that was blown you would probably be able to see bubbles in the radiator reservior when the car is at operating temp (or higher).

I'm assuming that it's the HG based on the fact that her mechanic has completely gone over the cooling system (including removing the rad to check for blockages etc) and has yet to figure out what is going on.

No poopenhausen action for me, Skiguide. I don't think my wife would like that solution very much. She's not a 'friend' of mine...just a friends friends friend. I think that Oarhead probably knows her though...maybe I should tell her my HG suspicions lest I get him after me

**Nobody Famous** · 01-20-2006, 11:01 AM

An investment in your good name may pay dividends with her circle of chick friends, if any of 'em are good looking or really stacked.

Offer to help look at the things you actually know about, such as checking the radiator cap or thromostat. If that doesn't fix things, get on the car talk website (cartalk.com) and help her locate a reliable mechanic in your area to have the problem diagnosed and or fixed.

**A-wreck** · 01-20-2006, 11:02 AM

Yes, I have dodged gigantic bullets many times.

**Beaver** · 01-20-2006, 11:04 AM

If she's hot and you have a chance at getting in her pants go halfers on the cost of the repair, otherwise forget it. How do you know she didn't loan it to her boyfriend who took it out rat racing on deerfoot trail? Tell her you did some interweb research and found that it could be the HG. It might be something else that is a quick easy fix. I have a Toyota that I was told had a blown HG, I put 2 new rad caps on it and it hasn't overheated or used any coolant in 8 months.

**The Dad** · 01-20-2006, 11:51 AM

If it were me, I'd probably offer something. How much is hard to say.

You didn't say how much you sold it for, which could play a role.

Since the poopenhausen action is out, the parallel question is whether this could have negative social repercussions, via either the three degrees of separation you describe or some other means.

**Mtn Man** · 01-20-2006, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by nutcase

Why are you assuming its the head gasket. More often than not on an older car its the radiator and/or the thermostat. Easy fixes. If it was the head gasket that was blown you would probably be able to see bubbles in the radiator reservior when the car is at operating temp (or higher).

This is what I was thinking when you told me the symptoms. Busted HG usually produces a lot of smoke. Check the Thermostat, then the radiator first.

B)

Edit: Then stick it in her pooperhausen

**Oarhead** · 01-20-2006, 12:10 PM

Now I am all curious as to who it is.

It sound like you did not know anything about the issue and are acting in good faith. Good to see that somebody on here has a conscience

**kadeater** · 01-20-2006, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by Canuk

Have you ever dodged a huge bullet?

I tried once but I wasn't quick enough. It got me in the right leg. Here is a picture of the bloody car after I was taken by Life Flight to the hospital. Sorry no pics of my leg.

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/a...1&d=1137781240

**mtnbikerskierchick** · 01-20-2006, 12:24 PM

It's her car now. It's a Subaru. Subarus are great cars. I have one. I love Subi's. But, they are Japanese. Japanese cars are intended to last about 7 years. Beyond that you're going to have some problems. This is one of the potential problems. If you buy an 8yr old car you should expect some issues here or there. That's it.

**The AD** · 01-20-2006, 12:26 PM

Wow, I think I'm a pretty upstanding guy, but I can't imagine offering her anything in this situation. The car ran fine when you owned it. If there was an existing problem you knew about, then it's a different story, but according to you there wasn't.

I do think it's OK to let her know that the head gasket is a known problem area with that engine, though.

**A-wreck** · 01-20-2006, 12:28 PM

[QUOTE=kadeater]I tried once but I wasn't quick enough. It got me in the right leg. Here is a picture of the bloody car after I was taken by Life Flight to the hospital. Sorry no pics of my leg.

QUOTE]

Awww man. I've always wanted to get shot. I even purposely took a valet job at a club in a really shitty neighborhood where people got robbed left and right to increase my chances. I guess it wasn't meant to be.