Ak Rocket Swallow Construction

[leroy jenkins]

OK, so I have a few questions about the Ak Rocket Swallowtails. I searched, but there wasn't much about the construction, either here on on Salomon's website. Salomon gaurds thier contruction materials like a dirty little secret. First off, what is the difference construction wise between the normal old (foam core) one's and the labs. Is it extra foam, a sheet of titanium with foam, or different foam? All those things seem pretty silly. Somehow I'm guessing its extra fiberglass or some such thing, but I didn't know for sure.
Also, how much stiffer are the old labs than the normal ones, how much stiffer are the new wood core ones than the old ones, and how much stiffer are the wood core labs than the normal wood cores.
Also, I have skied the old scream series, and those skis seemed to be extremely durable, yet the couple year old Rocket Swallows I have seem to have a far softer base? Did they put a race base on the big mountain ski, yet not on the bogner/groomer freindly all mountain ski?
All help is appreiciated, and sorry for yet another Ak Rocket thread.

edit for dumb typo

[wildstyle]

The main thing they do is reinforce the sidewalls and the skis with extra fibreglass and / or a titanium layer in the topsheet for durability. They still have the power foam core but usually less of it due to the extra other materials. This makes the skis more durable and stiffer in the middle of the ski without sacrificing too much weight which i like.

Some Lab skis have a mixture of a power foam/wood core as well but these are mostly the racing skis 2v's / 3v's etc as the racers like the wood core feel.

They also use the Race sintered bases on all Lab skis.

They also play with the sidecuts/dimensions a bit on the Labs which makes them ski a bit better i think ...

Check out www.salomonlab.com and listen to the guy chatting about the 1080 lab cr johnson ski (get better dude) and he descibes what they do with lab skis quite well.

The old Lab skis that were made with a pure wood core are much better than todays skis in my opinion. When i buy salomon , i only buy the Lab skis now as i've found them more durable , better made and they tend to take better care of you on returns / warranty issues.

[marshalolson]

FYI: next year there will be an in-line version of the lab gun and the ak swallowtail. (aka ~$700 street vs. $1000). also, the racing base and edges will be replaced with the more durable consumer base & edges.

ak's have a wood stringer and high density foam (as dense as the foam axioms) w/ titanal topsheet.

the green aks and the ak swallowtails are TOTALLY different, if that is what you are asking as well.....

[marshalolson]

Eh, the old green AK labs were not that durable. (search)

It's tough to beat a beefy vertical sidewall's durablity, especially when matched with wood and metal.

and the green ak's were not lab skis.

tough to beat talking on topic.

[leroy jenkins]

Sweet, thanks for the info Marshal. Also, aren't this years (the black ones) wood core? Anyone skied both this years and the version from the last couple years that could do a little compare contrast for me and tell me how much difference the woodcore makes?
I have a pair of the last years foam core labs, which I like, but would love a pair of woodcore ones, especially if they don't have that crappy racing base, which is about as tough as butter. I might be able to get the hookup, so I'm considering whether it'd be worth it.

[wildstyle]

I'm talking about the green 195 AK Rocket's with the pilot plate. Those are lab (or prostock) skis. Totally different. My friend has a pair, they edge compress pretty easy.

Do they have the Salomon Lab label/symbol on them ?

[leroy jenkins]

Ok, bump for this, I really need some info on this years ski. I can get a sickter hook up on em, but have no chance to ski them. Anybody skied em please help me out. Thanks.

[MnO]

Yes. They suck. The mount point is way too far forward, they feel like you're going over. Pretty glassy and whippy...not my thing.

The salomon you want is the 1080 Gun lab, which skis quite well. More BEEFY and damp, but not unweildy.

Eeeehhh... Gun Lab isn´t more beefy unless they made the AK Rocket much more softer than previous years. Compared to my 04/05 Lab Rockets the Gun Lab is way softer in flex. Skis ok though, but it also feels totally different with a clear bc-jib balanced stance. Beefy is definately not the right word.

[wildstyle]

I had to chose between the swallowtails and the gun labs.

The gun labs just feel more versatile and can be used in the same terrain as swallowtails and also in terrain the swallowtails wouldn't be used in.

Gun labs all the way....

[MnO]

"Did you ski both the '06 models back to back like I did? "

No, I didn´t ski the latest grey version of the AK Rocket. But I surely want to after hearing this. I just hate the feel of standing to far forward on a ski so I would most likely also find them really bad.

I have had three different pairs (warranty claims) of the orange/black ones and tried different mountings. The first edition of that ski had a mounting point far forward and then they moved it back the next year. There was a discussion about this, but I don´t remember the conclusion. Right now I have a pair mounted at 84,7 cm from tail and find them well balanced.

More forward than the original 87cm would be insane, I agree about that. Do you now the actual measurement?
I tried the Gun Lab a couple of times and find that ski more forward mounted in feel than my rockets, even though this pair of Guns was backmounted some. I found it too short, but the construction is surprisingly snappy for beeing so soft. Normal soft freeskiing easy to handle bc jib ski? Yes. Big? No.

Just the fact that it´s a new model doesn´t make the ski stiffer and better, even if the common hype crew here seem to constantly overrate anything new, limited or just special in any kind. (Not personal to you Highway, just a comment in general).

The Rocket is also a easy ski for people who don´t like to put power into their skiing, but I still say that they can handle more power than the Gun. I like the AK:s for everyday use in a big resort when the snow is mostly soft. Hard days and really deep moments they lack etiher grip and stability or float. Hands down I would definately pick that ski over the Gun Lab. But as said before I havent tried the current model, so all my words are based on the first three production years.

However I kind of like the kind feel of the Guns construction. If they made that ski flat tailed and 195 long and with a more traditional balance they would probably be a nice ski for anyone who like a soft quick turning surf feel in powder. Now they are just to much of a jibber ski to attract me. I never ski switch and never visit the park so for me the twin is just annoying. A small lift to make it possible to go backwards out of trouble when things get tight and steep is all I need.

[MnO]

Good to hear the story behind your statements. When I read it I just realised that you allready stated this is some other thread a while ago, right? Excuse my bad memory. I must say that it sounds really strange that Salomon would place the center mark at a position where it doesn´t work, but I guess stranger things have happened in the skiing industry.

I also could consider the Gun as a allround ski, but in general I don´t like skis that short. 188 untwinned is good, but with a twin it´s a bit short for me. That´s just personal preference and has nothing to do with the performance of the ski really. I also found the Gun just a little to wide for what I like to have as a everyday ski. The 101mm and overall construction seemed to just go over the limit for making it feel a bit wide. I must say that the difference between 94-97 as in AKR, Mantra, DP or LP and the 101-103mm of the GunL, Watea or Prohete is clearly noticeable when edging. At the same time it´s not really wide enough to be a ski for the deepest days. I find it better to have a quicker edging 95mm for everyday and a 110+ for powder days.

FYI I have close to 200 days on the AK Labs, so I know that ski inside and out basically and I have only tried the GunL for three days. I ski Explosive 190 as a hard snow/go big backup and a Fischer Worldcup RC 175cm for small resort hardpack. Wider pow skis are not needed this winter unfortunately since I have a new job and no real good snowy areas nearby.