Surfing/Skiing comparison

**Odin** · 01-05-2006, 08:39 PM

hmmm, I have confessed to not surfing or knowing much about it
(other than those guys have HUGE balls who do big wave surfing)

HOWEVER,

the one thing that has attracted me to skiing over things like wakeboarding or surfing was the idea that I could go anywhere on the mountain. I wasn't tethered to anything except that it had to have snow and not even that sometimes.

So where does that fit in? Don't you ever feel constrained that you are just on a never ending repeating machine surfing?

I know that I loved wakeboarding, but there were times where I wanted to let go of the rope and just be able to head off by myself..........

**hop** · 01-05-2006, 08:42 PM

Well, I just got back from a nice session at Bolinas, where in the span of about three hours I got one (that's 1) wave I can be proud of. I also spent an hour at Muir, where the surf was way over my head (literally/figuratively). I watched people get stand-up barrel after barrel, and wished I was good enough/strong enough to join them. A trio of kooks tried to get out and got badly thrashed, including one broken board. Here's a non-set wave. The sets were probably twice as big and more often than not closeouts, but I witnessed a few pretty glorious rides before the inevitable carnage.

All in all, it was a pretty typical day for me. All sorts of driving and checking and paddling and attempting and flailing for hours for one 5 second ride. Worth it? Hell yes.

I guess it's a grass-is-greener thing for me. I'm no superman on skis, but I can hold my own and I'm picky enough now where I would rather go for quality than quantity. Every day I surf I learn something new, whereas I've had ski days where I wished I was doing something else.

Ok, I guess there are way more skiing spots than surfing spots, but I have done pretty extensive travelling for skiing and have been skunked as many or more times than I've scored epic conditions.

And girls... well, maybe I'm blessed with lots of girls in my 'hood. There were probably 10 girls out there today that could and did surf circles around me.

**myles long** · 01-05-2006, 08:56 PM

hop i think i am of the same opinion as you on this matter....been skiing for 20 of the 28 years of my life but have only been surfing for about 3 weeks now, and all i can think about lately is going out again. i think its because its something totally new and everytime i am out there i feel like i accomplished something. whereas with skiing its still loads of fun but the accomplishments and stuff i learn skiing are not quite as nocitible or obvious.

**hop** · 01-05-2006, 10:05 PM

Originally Posted by snoogens

The stoke in surfing is far better than that of skiing.

You can pretty much have a dozen or two solid days in the snow each winter.

But you can surf 100 times a year and only manage a few REALLY good ones worth talking about. People talk about epic swells, not epic snowfalls.

There truly is no better feeling than toes on the nose on a perfect wave.

Now I dunno about that either! I still talk (and hear) about the storm cycle at Baker between Xmas and New Year 2003 and the Tahoe storm cycle of last dec/jan.
You've never heard the stories from the PNW from the winter of 98/99?

but then again, I am good enough to take advantage of epic snowfall, whereas epic swells keep me on the beach

**Brocktoon** · 01-05-2006, 11:41 PM

Originally Posted by Odin

hmmm, I have confessed to not surfing or knowing much about it
(other than those guys have HUGE balls who do big wave surfing)

HOWEVER,

the one thing that has attracted me to skiing over things like wakeboarding or surfing was the idea that I could go anywhere on the mountain. I wasn't tethered to anything except that it had to have snow and not even that sometimes.

So where does that fit in? Don't you ever feel constrained that you are just on a never ending repeating machine surfing?

I know that I loved wakeboarding, but there were times where I wanted to let go of the rope and just be able to head off by myself..........

Odin-

Surfing is capable of satisfying that wanderlust you describe. However, it comes in a little bit of a different form. Unlike skiing, surfing isn't a mode of transportation - it's more like a roller coaster where you bring your own rail car. That's what made the Bond movie that had the "surf chase" scene so ridiculous.

The "search for the goods" in surfing usually takes place in a car, less often in a boat, and sometimes on foot. I've hiked through national parks with a board bag over my shoulder. Once in the water, you can wander between peaks. You don't cover as much ground as you do on skis, but there is usually plenty to keep your attention within the area you're investigating. For example, if the peak you're surfing gets crowded, starts behaving strangely, or you just want to try something new, you can usually take a wave in either direction paddle a little bit and investigate what's going on elsewhere in the line up.

It's an interesting point you bring up and being able to cover all that ground is something I didn't even realize I was digging about skiing.

**Brocktoon** · 01-05-2006, 11:51 PM

Originally Posted by myles long

hop i think i am of the same opinion as you on this matter....been skiing for 20 of the 28 years of my life but have only been surfing for about 3 weeks now, and all i can think about lately is going out again. i think its because its something totally new and everytime i am out there i feel like i accomplished something. whereas with skiing its still loads of fun but the accomplishments and stuff i learn skiing are not quite as nocitible or obvious.

Myles-

I'm experiencing the same thing in skiing. I've got this newfound, insatiable obsession with skiing. I think about it constantly now - not just the sensation but everything about it. I want to learn to master my edges, understand the physics of skiing, and learn to appreciate the gear.

That reminds me, I asked a few questions about ski design in the first post and nobody seemed as interested to discuss it. I guess this is the Padded Room and most of the "gear queers" are probably reading the threads in Gear Swap or Tech Talk. However, I was soliciting a more general/random/philosophical opinion than "Shit, bro, the new Seth Vicious are SICK!" (although I've read that they are).

**LeeLau** · 01-06-2006, 12:07 AM

Originally Posted by Nugget

So, please, submit your replies to this post. What are your thoughts on ski design? What is the best way for me to get my equipment dialed? What kind of ski-quiver should I look at to be able to approach the whole mountain and the range of conditions I'll find on the mountain? What are the limitations and advantages of ski design? Obviously, if you are a skier who is starting to surf and want any input at all, throw that in as well.

Im not a gear queer but because youve posted one of the most interesting threads ive read on this board I'll try

Where do you usually ski?

How do you like to ski? Fast? Precise? Fast and precise? Fast and damn the torpedos? Slow and methodical?

Do you like short turns? Long turns? Do it all?

Generally skinnier skis will be easier edge to edge and will like hardpack more. Racing skis have 65mm waists for that reason. They'll be torsionally rigid and great on groomers.

At the other end of the spectrum you'll have 90 mm waist skis - which are slower edge to edge but being fatter will have more flotation and might be better in powder.

There's tons of variables other then ski waist. You already know about flex. A stiff ski won't get deflected by crud or windslab and will be able to blast through all matter of muck. A softer ski might get knocked around more. However, a stiff ski might be tougher to initiate a turn as opposed to a softer ski.

Another variable is ski length - generally the longer the ski the more stable it is at speed but the harder it may be to turn quickly.

There are tons of other variables (sidecut, longitudinal stiffness blah blah) but you trade off some attribute for another. Its like surfboards (flotation; fin shape, numbers of fins, gunny shapes vs snub noses, etc) and their tradeoffs

So your question is pretty meaningless without knowing something about how you like to ski.

if you look at the quiver thread you can see that most of us are gear whores so if I was to go out on a limb I'd say you need:

- a carving ski (65mm waist, stiff as all hell and can go mach schnell on groomer days)
- a nice light touring ski for long traverses and tours (70mm waist thereabouts and lots of carbon)
- a heavy touring setup for chutes and cornices (fat and tough mounted with burly touring bindings)
- a mid -fat all mountain ski for those light pow days or chopped up crud days (85 mm waist or so)
- a nice big fat soft ski for deep lazy days (90mm + waist and soft)
- a nice stiff fat ski for give er days (90mm waist and stiff stiff stiff)
- tele skis for the knee dropping meadow skipping soul days
- oh and don't forget a snowboards

JMO - and I bet I'll catch some shit for it.

**Brocktoon** · 01-06-2006, 12:52 AM

My name's Nugget and I'm a magoholic. It's been 8 seconds since my last post.

I've been combing this board for about a month now and don't even know why I can't stop. I have my suspicions, however. I silently fantacize about skiing/surfing the better part of my waking hours - probably as often as Masters and Johnson opined most men think about sex (I also think about sex that often, which doesn't leave me much time to get anything done in my life). Because I know 99.99999999% of people find this type of discussion incredibly boring, and I generally don't like to be a burden on others, I endure most conversations with about 4% of my attention span, while the rest is devoted to thoughts such as those that are strewn like so much litter on this board.

So, now that that's off my chest. . .

LeeLau - thanks for the response! Here's the answer to your question:

I don't know! I want to do it all. I think I recall seeing you post on Odin's "elitism in the brotherhood of skiing" thread, so I think you've read a pretty robust account of my experience (if not, here's the Cliff Notes: very limited with one really epic trip that changed my life).

What I want to do is ski like Eric Hjorleifson does in "The Hit List" or Shane McConky does any of the other 6 videos I've been borrowing from Rusty Nails for the last month. I understand I might have to practice a bit, starting 25 years ago, and become a tad more talented.

I really enjoyed getting "off-piste." I had the most fun skiing away from the crowds and trying to work my way through more challenging terrain. With surfing as a background, I think I'm more maneuver-oriented in my thinking than the average maggot (I detect a distinct "go big, straight and fast - turning is for pussies" vibe on this site). However, I can appreciate a clean line. Also, being stuck in central VA until May (when I'll move back to CA), there aren't the pow days to be had at the local spot, so I'm going to try to learn to jib this season. I plan to ski mostly in UT, CO and CA when I get back to CA. I also expect to make some PNW trips as well as anywhere else that's appealing and feasible.

I'm 5'11" and 190 lbs. My quiver includes:
-174cm Rossi Scratch Sprayer BCs mounted with the Rossi Scratch Axial 120
binders.
-169cm K2 Fujatives with Look P12s (incoming now)

I'm sure this looks like some degree of overlap. However, I bought the Rossis as my main go-to ski and didn't want to thrash them with this year's jib experiment. I intended to buy a used set up for that purpose but found the Looks on ebay for $100 and got the Fugatives for $150 + ship through a PSA on Gear Swap about a shop sale. (Thanks again Infantile Egomaniac!) So I don't feel too bad about beating the crap out of them!

While I don't think I'll need them this year (because I won't be exposed to the right conditions and because I won't be good enough to rate them) I want to get a set good pow skis. I'm intrigued by the Bro model (just the buzz - I don't really have the knowledge to appreciate them intrinsically). I'm also very interested in getting a randonee set-up, skins and touring gear.

I hope this gives sufficient input to fill any blanks in your reco, LeeLau (& any one else who has .02 on this topic). Thanks again!

**myles long** · 01-06-2006, 01:48 AM

[QUOTE=Nugget]
I'm experiencing the same thing in skiing. I've got this newfound, insatiable obsession with skiing. I think about it constantly now - not just the sensation but everything about it. I want to learn to master my edges, understand the physics of skiing, and learn to appreciate the gear.

the obsession is what keeps it fun....i think

**hop** · 01-06-2006, 04:01 AM

Originally Posted by Nugget

That reminds me, I asked a few questions about ski design in the first post and nobody seemed as interested to discuss it. I guess this is the Padded Room and most of the "gear queers" are probably reading the threads in Gear Swap or Tech Talk. However, I was soliciting a more general/random/philosophical opinion than "Shit, bro, the new Seth Vicious are SICK!" (although I've read that they are).

I added my thoughts on your questions in my first post.

Edit: but I'll keep going here. I don't think you really need a quiver when you're just getting started, because you're just going to be adding more variables to the equation and you'll be spending more effort figuring out each different pair of skis than actually skiing. You'd be better off just focusing on dialing in your technique and skills on what you have (seems like a pretty solid-if a little short-east coast quiver) before adding more and more stuff. Eventually you'll find that you're needing more from your skis, and then you'll know it's time to step up to something bigger or different.

It sounds like my surfing level (at least in interest) is about the same place you are with skiing. I've got a 7'2" hybrid, 8'6" longboard, and soon I'll take ownership of a 6' fish. I really like the 7'2" but it lets me know I'm not a strong paddler. However, when I'm actually on the wave I sometimes feel like it's too boaty and not maneuverable enough.
I catch way more waves on the 8'6" but it's even more boaty than the 7'2". I wish I had it now though, since the waves I'm dealing with now are either too gnar for me or more of a longboardy wave. I'm sure I'll flail hard on the 6' but when I do make it work, I expect it to feel the way I want it to feel. There is no reason for a surfer of my ability to have a quiver, but hey, they were cheap. If I could do it again, I'd probably have a 7'8" hybrid and the fish.

**Brocktoon** · 01-06-2006, 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by hop

I don't think you really need a quiver when you're just getting started, because you're just going to be adding more variables to the equation and you'll be spending more effort figuring out each different pair of skis than actually skiing. You'd be better off just focusing on dialing in your technique and skills on what you have (seems like a pretty solid-if a little short-east coast quiver) before adding more and more stuff. Eventually you'll find that you're needing more from your skis, and then you'll know it's time to step up to something bigger or different..

No Kidding! I'm terribly prone to getting carried away. Your post just gave me a mental preview of me, after I get a little better at skiing, sitting in a garage with thousands of dollars worth of the wrong gear that I bought while I was learning. I think I'll sit on what I've got until I feel a need for something new.

Originally Posted by hop

It sounds like my surfing level (at least in interest) is about the same place you are with skiing. I've got a 7'2" hybrid, 8'6" longboard, and soon I'll take ownership of a 6' fish. I really like the 7'2" but it lets me know I'm not a strong paddler. However, when I'm actually on the wave I sometimes feel like it's too boaty and not maneuverable enough.
I catch way more waves on the 8'6" but it's even more boaty than the 7'2". I wish I had it now though, since the waves I'm dealing with now are either too gnar for me or more of a longboardy wave. I'm sure I'll flail hard on the 6' but when I do make it work, I expect it to feel the way I want it to feel. There is no reason for a surfer of my ability to have a quiver, but hey, they were cheap. If I could do it again, I'd probably have a 7'8" hybrid and the fish.

Hop, you will LOVE the fish. Mine is my favorite stick in the quiver. It is an incredibly versatile design. There is a reason pros consider it "cheating" to ride a fish. Very different than riding a thruster. Depending on how your hybrid is, it's probably quite different than that also. Thrusters are a massive compromise but a salient characteristic of their design is the bursts of acceleration they are capable of. Twins/Quads/Fish don't have that. They just go. Slide a bar of wet soap around the inside of a bath tub. Imagine standing on it - that's what a fish is like.

**LeeLau** · 01-06-2006, 06:18 PM

Well i ski mostly in Whistler - i live half the week there and half the week in Vancouver. I split my time 75/25 backcountry/lift-served. I tele, alpine but dont snowboards. Like you I'm not a big straightline fan; I don't huck due to having been pretty badly injured and general chicken shit.

You're about my size but I get a lot more time in then you in soft snow so take this advice fwiw.

Get a good carving ski. You're in a part of the world where you'll need one and it will let you have fun and learn fundamentals. It's like living in a place with soft mushy small waves - well get a long board. Work with what you got.

Your other skis are fine. If you want a big powder ski for your trips out west then rent.

As you get better and more used to soft snow and powder and you want to start dabbling in touring then start finding out what you like. I like very soft powder skis since I love making little squilly pow turns.

The exception is skiing chutes where i like a stiffer ski so i have the option of outrunning sluff and going fast if necessary. But this is starting to get complicated and a bit more advanced if you get my drift. These are the choices you'll start making when you decide what kind of skiing you really like doing. Me I like big traverses and lots of touring - even the kinds of tours where the turns are shit are fun for me. I would bet that by the time you get to this point you'll start getting a sense of what you like and you'll start deciding.

hop - you're funny ... Your buzz for surfing totally reminds me of what it was like when I first started. Go get em!

Originally Posted by Nugget

What I want to do is ski like Eric Hjorleifson does in "The Hit List" or Shane McConky does any of the other 6 videos I've been borrowing from Rusty Nails for the last month. I understand I might have to practice a bit, starting 25 years ago, and become a tad more talented.

I really enjoyed getting "off-piste." I had the most fun skiing away from the crowds and trying to work my way through more challenging terrain. With surfing as a background, I think I'm more maneuver-oriented in my thinking than the average maggot (I detect a distinct "go big, straight and fast - turning is for pussies" vibe on this site). However, I can appreciate a clean line. Also, being stuck in central VA until May (when I'll move back to CA), there aren't the pow days to be had at the local spot, so I'm going to try to learn to jib this season. I plan to ski mostly in UT, CO and CA when I get back to CA. I also expect to make some PNW trips as well as anywhere else that's appealing and feasible.

**hop** · 01-06-2006, 07:21 PM

On the way:

7'2"

8'6"

**DrRy** · 01-06-2006, 09:39 PM

The other night I had a realization about a major difference between the two sports. I was watching a special on discovery about sharks, and they had a segment about two surfers who were attacked by a great white in South Africa.

Imagine, on certain mountains in the world, there was a risk of getting snagged by an animal lurking quietly under the snow. We do have many serious, occasionally fatal risks when we ski, but imagine something coming up from under the snow and biting your fuckin leg off.

**hop** · 01-06-2006, 09:59 PM

Originally Posted by DrRy

The other night I had a realization about a major difference between the two sports. I was watching a special on discovery about sharks, and they had a segment about two surfers who were attacked by a great white in South Africa.

Imagine, on certain mountains in the world, there was a risk of getting snagged by an animal lurking quietly under the snow. We do have many serious, occasionally fatal risks when we ski, but imagine something coming up from under the snow and biting your fuckin leg off.

Do snow leopards count?

**nutcase** · 01-07-2006, 12:55 AM

Originally Posted by Superstar Punani

Been a surfer since 11, and a skier since 18. Here's the similarities and differences....

Similarities....

- Both have a bullshit learning curve. You have to put in a lot of time and effort and it will take you years to get somewhat good at it.

- Both are lifestyles. You can spend your life travelling the planet in pursuit of either...or both. If you decide to do both then you'll need to live in a place that will let you do both in a world-class setting. Even then there will be trade-offs between the quality of one vs. the other. Over the past 20 years I've lived in Sydney, SF, Tahoe, LA, then SF again. Oz had insane surf, and is a short, cheap flight away from Indo, but the skiing was shit. CA has Tahoe, but shittier waves than Oz.

I know there are other cities out there where you can go surf or ski- NYC, Vancouver, Portland, Tokyo, Auckland and Seattle come to mind but the key is "easy access" to "good" snow/waves.

My personal criteria- Big metropolitan city no more than 30 minutes from the Pacific Ocean, and no more than a 6 hour drive to get pow.

Differences

- Skiing can be learned at a later time in life, whereas if you weren't surfing by puberty then you'd probably be stuck in intermediocrity (not that there's anything wrong with that).

- You can be a good skier and live far from the mountains. I've yet to meet a good surfer who lives far from the beach.

- Good surf is reliant on a shitload of factors: Tide, swell size, swell direction, spot, wind, crowds, local vibe. All these need to come together, and when they do you get what you can- it may not be there tomorrow, or a few hours later.

With pow all you need is a dump and you're ready to play. Over my life the ratio is about 10 insane powder days to 1 insane surf day. That being said, any surf trip trumps any ski trip.

- Local vibe- surfers are inherently selfish and territorial creatures competing for waves. Unlike skiing, you can always hike to your stash. If you go anywhere hassled/crowded/localized (read: North Shore / Westside Oahu, Steamer Lame, Superbank) you're gonna keep a low profile and "ease" your way into the crowd before you start picking off the good ones. Whereas in skiing you can pretty much go to the best places (Cham, Alta, W-B, Tahoe) and ski wherever the fuck you want, make friends with the locals and ski with them.

- Cheap thrills- If the surf is flat/small/mushy/crap it's gonna suck. Sure you can have fun, but nothing will get the adrenaline juices flowing. With skiing you can go out on a shitty icy day with no snow, and still get your cock rocked (Think following 666 on Ooops after it hasn't snowed for a month, or straightlining the Wall to Buckboard when it's been winch-groomed)

- Expenses- All you need is a board and maybe a wetsuit and you're set to go. Skiing required a snow-capable car, a pass/ticket, and a shitload of gear.

All this being sprayed, I can't pick just one. I must have both for a happy existence. But given a choice between a day of bottomless blower pow, or a day of mindblowing barrels I'd take the green room over the white room.

Seriously- I feel like I could have easily posted this. This is exactly how I would have responded to this. Good post dude

I will now continue reading the rest of the thread.......

**Brocktoon** · 01-07-2006, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by DrRy

The other night I had a realization about a major difference between the two sports. I was watching a special on discovery about sharks, and they had a segment about two surfers who were attacked by a great white in South Africa.

Imagine, on certain mountains in the world, there was a risk of getting snagged by an animal lurking quietly under the snow. We do have many serious, occasionally fatal risks when we ski, but imagine something coming up from under the snow and biting your fuckin leg off.

Yeah, but I think skiing is way more dangerous than surfing, for the most part.

I don't have any hard facts, just my anecdotal observations, to support my conclusions. I've been surfing about 20 years. I've seen harmless little leopard sharks but never a great white. I did see a tiger shark swimming beneath me in Hawaii. Got out and was spooked for a little while. Perhaps I've been really lucky, but none of my buddies or buddies' buddies have ever been victims of a shark attack. I know attacks happen, but I'd bet a surfer is much more likely to die of a car crash than a shark attack.

However, it seems the risk of tearing an ACL/MCL or breaking your bones/back or slamming into a tree is damn high in skiing. Christ, there's a whole thread on this site called "gimp central." There is no such equivalent thread on surfline.com! Sure, you can break your ankle in the shorebreak, compress your spine or break your neck on the sandbar, but I think injuries are less common in surfing.

For that matter, death is probably more likely in skiing too! Avy risk, Sonny Bonofication of the head, cravases. The thought of a shark might be spookier, but its less of a threat than all of the risks in skiing!

**Brocktoon** · 01-07-2006, 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by hop

On the way:

7'2"

8'6"

Hop-

This looks like a perfect quiver for a surfer whose abilities are such as you describe your own. That 7'2" is really versatile, the fish is really going to give you an opportunity to grow and the 8'6" is great for grovelling.

Patagonia makes their own blanks so they are immune from the Clark Foam crisis. In fact, Salomon also makes blanks. Maybe the ski industry will take over the foam manufacturing aspect of surfboard construction and bring some of their big budgets to the process.

**RootSkier** · 01-10-2006, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by DrRy

Imagine, on certain mountains in the world, there was a risk of getting snagged by an animal lurking quietly under the snow. We do have many serious, occasionally fatal risks when we ski, but imagine something coming up from under the snow and biting your fuckin leg off.

Except avalanches, which fit that description perfectly.

How many surfers have been killed by sharks this year? Lots of avalanche deaths already this year.

**whatcomridaz** · 01-11-2006, 10:30 AM

SuPu if you aren't getting the same glow from the white room as you are the green room pick up a snowboard. Nothing emulates the big bottom turn of a double overhead wave as throwing a big surf turn on my Prior. I've been surfing on and off for 10 years, skiing for 20, snowboarding for 6 and mt biking for 2 and I have houses close to Sebastian and Baker. Although surfing is fantastic, the reward for effort is so much lower than mtb or snowboarding that even with a house 2 minutes from the beach, I almost never bother to head down there.

As for the shark comment, its really not even worth worrying about. There are only a couple of shark bites/year and most non-fatal. There have been 2 deaths just at Mt Baker and the season is just getting into gear.

**lemon boy** · 01-11-2006, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by whatcomridaz

SuPu if you aren't getting the same glow from the white room as you are the green room pick up a snowboard. Nothing emulates the big bottom turn of a double overhead wave as throwing a big surf turn on my Prior. I've been surfing on and off for 10 years, skiing for 20, snowboarding for 6 and mt biking for 2 and I have houses close to Sebastian and Baker. Although surfing is fantastic, the reward for effort is so much lower than mtb or snowboarding that even with a house 2 minutes from the beach, I almost never bother to head down there.

As for the shark comment, its really not even worth worrying about. There are only a couple of shark bites/year and most non-fatal. There have been 2 deaths just at Mt Baker and the season is just getting into gear.

Cue SuPus classic/standard: Snowboarders are the spongeboarders of the skiing world.
-----------------------
Otherwise...
just a thought but would it maybe be feasable to put a "lift" in at some breaks for learners? eg: a tow too surfing learn to surf camp

And for my money: surfing = way sketchier than skiing, no 2 minute hold downs.

**whatcomridaz** · 01-11-2006, 02:35 PM

cue the who is the best wave rider in the world? hint its not a surfer. Not that I'm a fan of spongeboarding. Snowboarding is much more like kitesurfing of the surfing world than a spongeboard. An interesting extension that works better and worse depending on the conditions.

**Superstar Punani** · 01-11-2006, 03:25 PM

Snowboarding is to skiing what bodyboards are to surfing, and what sucking cock is to eating pussy (i.e. Only chicks should be snowboarding, bodyboarding, or sucking cock; However, Chicks who ski, surf or eat pussy are even sexier)

You can take any chump, put them on an Esky lid and make them paddle out at Pipe, just like any chump can grab a snowboard and get to instructor-level within 2 days.

...not that there's anything wrong with it. (Some of my best friends are snowboarders or spongers).