Paging Gym Rats and Fitness Nerds

[Foggy_Goggles]

I’m tired of my routine. I need to switch it up a bit. I go to the gym 3 days a week minimum, sometimes more. Currently, I stretch first (I love stretching), do 25mins of cardio on the orbital, then hit the weights. I go:

Day 1 – arms, chest
Day 2 – legs, shoulders
Day 3 – abs, back

I’m just using the regular machines (and free weight “machines”) for the standard exercises. 3 sets of 15 reps. I’m going for basic fitness with an emphasis on core strength and shoulders (‘cause of a previous injury and surgery). I’m in pretty good shape, I carry a couple lbs of cube fat, but want to be a machine. My ski posse is insane (a smokejumper, a former college tight end, and a injun maniac) and they are always ½ a step in front of me. Also, I have a hut trip planned in BC in March that I want to rule.

1. How should I change my workouts?
2. Are there any websites that have good workout listed
3. What should I do to document progress, I don’t keep track of anything
4. Any particular exercises you recommend.

I eat a pretty good diet (no fast food) but nothing special.

Thanks

[truth]

Here ya go...

[hev]

personally i am all about the pool, you still need to do leg strengthening for skiing, but the pool tends to kick your ass in all around way similar to a rough day in the bc....plus girls in bathing suits; can't go wrong there.

[homerjay]

Suggestions (I need some help, too...NOT an expert or even close)

More/different Cardio.

Longer, lower intensity to build an aerobic base, combined with high intensity short stuff. Does your gym offer spin class? I reccommend it. If you like to run, it's great prep for skiing....when it sucks just visualize yourself trailbreaking and skinning like a maniac.

Stretch after cardio, not before. Warm muscles stretch more effectively.

I started doing regular yoga classes about 2 months ago. Core strength, flexibility, and balance are all improved.

my $.02 - and that's probably all it's worth.

[Benny Profane]

Outside magazine always has articles with long, involved schedules to attain some sort of level, but, jeez, that's not leaving much time and energy for the rest of your life. Sounds like you got it down pretty well, but I'd be more aerobic (spinning, stairmaster for an hour).

My solution is to bring the weed. My people always wait the old man with the smoke.

[Ireallyliketoski2]

Foggy,
If your knees are good I would suggest throwing some running into the mix. Hands down this has been the only thing that I've really notice help my overall endurance and ability to keep going all day. The key is to do what I call interval running, start off with a jog for about 1/2 mile to warm up, then stretch for a bit, then sprint for about 1/2 mile, jog 1/2 mile, sprint 1/2, so forth and so on. I usually only do a total of 3 miles. What this has taught my body is how to deal with lower oxygen levels, I mean you are huffing during and after the sprints. So when you are touring at a steady pace it will feel very comfortable. I just started running this year and this was the only training I did for a 1/2 marathon I ran this year (longest previous distance was 4 miles) and I did the 1/2 in 1hr 50 minutes, not the greatest time but I only trained for about two weeks. When I was jogging the race at a nice steady pace I felt so comfortable and I believe this was because of the hard short sprinting.

Yoga too is great and take up rock climbing if you need another ridiculously expensive hobby

[Strider]

exrx.net

[SledNeck]

Foggy,

Everybody has their own idea for fitness, however, I will speak from my own experience. I used to be fat boy, 235(+/- ). Decided bout 3 years ago to change my lifestyle. Now 185lb and 11% bf.

How do I do it? Intense weight-training and interval cardio training.

You want core-strength? dead-lifts and squats are the key to core strength. In addittion, to that you should try to keep you reps in the 8-10 range. 15 is great for a super light warm up set, but, for work range it is extremely catabolic and will do more harm then good. Simply put its called overtraining.

Diet is 9/10'ths of the law. You need to eat 6-8 meals a day that are evenly distributed caloricly. If your maintaining weight bout 15 calories per pound in bodyweight per day.(180 lbs *15 calories bout 2700) Experiment with the ratios of macronutrients to see what works for you. I do 50% protein 30% Low GI Carbs and bout 20% EFA's. Keep track of your diet by opening a free account at www.fitday.com

For a good weight training series go to: http://www.wannabebig.com/article.php?articleid=25

Bottom line for core strength is big heavy compound moves.

To see results you must always push yourself beyond the comfort level, its just like skiing, if your hard-corp you'll see results. Step it up.

Oh, hope thats not too gym rat for you....

[Foggy_Goggles]

So Carl Williams, ? about the body for life thing.

Say its an "upper body weight training day" do a do 6 sets of 1 exercise for each body part (Chest/Shoulders/Triceps/Back/Biceps).?

Can I do the cardio on the same day as the weights and make it a 3day instead of 6day program.

If I go an extra day should a just do cardio?

Have you used the program, does it work?

[truth]

Originally posted by Foggy_Goggles
So Carl Williams, ? about the body for life thing.

Say its an "upper body weight training day" do a do 6 sets of 1 exercise for each body part (Chest/Shoulders/Triceps/Back/Biceps).?

Can I do the cardio on the same day as the weights and make it a 3day instead of 6day program.

If I go an extra day should a just do cardio?

Have you used the program, does it work?

The 6th set for each body part should be a different exercise...I know that's not very clear on the site.

Yes, you can always add more cardio...the idea of the BFL program is to make it doable over the long haul...think years not weeks.

Don't look at as an extra day, rather you are alternating your upper and lower body wieght workouts with cardio or rest days in between. So if you follow that schedule your next weight day would be lower body. Don't discount the value of a day off...the body needs time to reboot, especially if you mix in ski days, travel and the stresses of daily life into the mix. The idea is to give you a framework to guide you over the long haul. Reality will dictate where you need more flexibility in the program, while the program will allow you to get back on track with a purpose.

Yes, I've been working with Bill Phillips from EAS since 1996. Reliable and honest info that is not interested in making you into a monster, just a healthy functional human body.

[Snow Dog]

If you can do 3 sets of 15 then you need more weight. When I reach the point that I can do 2x10 then it's time to increase the weight. To build muscle you want to stimulate growth but not damage the existing muscle. So pushing 'til I can't push no more works for me. I try and do the weights twice a week. Muscles build for 3-4 days after being stressed and then start to decline. So once a week is almost pointless.

Then I add 2-3 days of cardio. At least an hour on the bike, longer if I'm hiking or skiing. Get a heart rate monitor (the chest kind). I don't do cardio without it.

You'll need lots of protein to build those new muscles. I think it's 1 gram per pound of body weight per day. That steak of chicken is only 20-30% protein so an average 150# would need 1-1.5 pounds of meat a day. I use protein powder to buld up. It's cheap and concentrated.

That's my advice.

[MFI]

Sledneck said it best, more weight less reps. Squats are great but risky alone. If the place has a good squat machine, use it. Dead lifts are great too. They must be done with very strict form or you will blow your back out. A good website is Dr. Squat. Try to use fee weights as much as possible, including dumbells. When you hit a wall and can't add more weight, go up in 1 or 2 pound increments instead of 5. Always try to add more weight each week , even if it is only a few pounds. I understand that cardio is best done after lifting. Make sure you eat some protien after lifting and drink tons of water. It's been working for me the last 6 months. I'm sorry I ever stopped but hope to keep it up for good now. Really makes a difference on the hill.

[Foggy_Goggles]

This rools. OK so it seems like some systems recomend more weight less sets and some less weight (or changing weight) more sets. Is it true that more weight is better for size and more sets is better for fitness and athletics? I want to be a fitter better athlete not have a better beach body.

[confused]Truth, does that six set deal mean that if I was training quads I'd do 5 sets of leg presses and 1 of leg extentions?

[Lumpy]

I frikken love watching the lower rep/more weight rats with a spotter on either side of the bar and the lifter using every muscle in the system to facilitate getting that extra ten pounds up for MAX. What a fukkin joke.

I suppose its all dependent on what you want out of the workout. I stay with lower weight, isolate the muscle group and do it, precisely, and in control. 4 reps of 15 keeps the heartrate up if you don't sit aound with the meatheads between sets for 5 minutes and bullshit about your shitty relationship, new ultra wicking workout thong, or "supplement" cycle of the month.

But, I just like the high rep, lower weight workout to keep my ass and gut from rivalring Fat Bastards.

Three to Four days a week in gym (three max during ski season).

Day 1- Back and Triceps, Abs 20 minutes of cardio ( 2 minute intervals to 80% of target heart rate, with one minute rest speed)

Day 2-Chest and Biceps, same on cardio

Day 3- Shoulders, Abs 15-min of cardio, three minute intervals at 80% of heart rate.

[SledNeck]

But, I just like the high rep, lower weight workout to keep my ass and gut from rivalring Fat Bastards

Contrary to what some people believe, high rep, lower weight workouts will NOT burn fat more efficiently. What they will do is burn muscle. Lean muscle is what burns fat, builds strength and builds endurance. To keep lean muscle you must stimulate growth and overload, else the body sees fit to cannibalize its own tissue and store fat for reserves.

And yes HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training) post weight is the best time to do cardio. Google it, 3 times a week of a 20 minute HIIT session, is far more productive 5 times a week of 45 minute endurance type cardio session.

HIIT links: http://www.wsu.edu/~strength/hiit.htm, http://www.exrx.net/FatLoss/HIITvsET.html

[truth]

Originally posted by Foggy_Goggles
This rools. OK so it seems like some systems recomend more weight less sets and some less weight (or changing weight) more sets. Is it true that more weight is better for size and more sets is better for fitness and athletics? I want to be a fitter better athlete not have a better beach body.

[confused]Truth, does that six set deal mean that if I was training quads I'd do 5 sets of leg presses and 1 of leg extentions?

Something like that...everyone's body will respond to various stimulus in different ways. I know my legs get bigger from lifting higher reps...same with my arms. My chest and back are opposite. I vary my workouts according to what my body is doing (but 15 years in the gym will give you that kind of understanding).

As for the leg workout...I break it down into Quads, Hams and calves and do six sets for each. For quads you could do 5 sets of leg press followed by a superset (means no rest in between) of extensions.

Ideally you want to raise the weight lifted with each set for the first 4 and then drop back to the set 1 weight for the 5th set. If you nail your weights right so that you can only get the 12-10-8-6-12-12 reps you will be toast going on 1 minute rest.

The 1 minute period is key as it gives the muscles time to blow out the acid even though you might not feel ready for the next set. Wear a watch witha countdown timer as it makes it easy to stay on top of the sets. You'll be amazed how hard and how much work you've pumped out in 45 minutes of lifting.

[Lumpy]

Originally posted by SledNeck
Contrary to what some people believe, high rep, lower weight workouts will NOT burn fat more efficiently. What they will do is burn muscle. Lean muscle is what burns fat, builds strength and builds endurance. To keep lean muscle you must stimulate growth and overload, else the body sees fit to cannibalize its own tissue and store fat for reserves.

I guess I'm not looking to burn fat in my weight workout, just keep everything toned, not build muscle, but keep the heartrate up. I feel that only facilitates my cardio workout. Seems that higher reps lower weight, at least in my case, fatigue the muscle more. Whereas I seem to have reserves left if I subscribe to the low rep high weight. Couple with a short burst high intensity cardio it seems like a good philosophy.

At least I'm not sucking a valve when I start skiing in Nov. so it must be doing some good....that and the size 44 Dickies are kept at bay.

[truth]

Sled Neck is kinda right....though he belongs to the meat head school of training. BTDT...it works but it's not the only way as he might have you believe. High reps...20+ where the activity becomes primarily aerobic could do this to a lean body. A fat ass will benefit from any activity, period.

[Snow Dog]

Originally posted by Foggy_Goggles
This rools. OK so it seems like some systems recomend more weight less sets and some less weight (or changing weight) more sets. Is it true that more weight is better for size and more sets is better for fitness and athletics? I want to be a fitter better athlete not have a better beach body.

[confused]Truth, does that six set deal mean that if I was training quads I'd do 5 sets of leg presses and 1 of leg extentions?

To increase strength (power) then you need to push the muscle to failure. Once you reach the strength you want then increase reps for endurance. One training program was super slow -- one set with 20-30 seconds per rep 'til failure with no more than 10 reps. The idea is to stress the muscle continuously.

To get a beach boy body takes a lot of time and dedication. It also means burning off all the fat to bring out muscle definition. This means high cardio. I remember reading that (in his bodybuilding days) Arnold ran 5 miles a day to keep the fat off.

[Xover]

Here I come from a totally different; way out angle. Based on your original description and reading between the lines on what you would like to accomplish - try:

... plyos w/emphasis on explosiveness
... weight/non-weighted movements that emulate skiing movements
... trail run or hike or at least get on the treadmill and crank up the incline to like 8-10%

.. also continue to work on "core" strength

These are what I concentrate on the last two months of the fall (September and October) and nobody except Dan the friggin man can hang with me ALL day, bell to bell, hitting it hard, multiple days in a row; not braggin, just telling you how it is. Most others usually fade around 3ish and call it a day.

Oh ya one last thing; good supplements of protein, glutamine and glucosamine every day with some creatin and ribose thrown in for good measure on those endurant/power days.

But, above all else go with what your body responds to as far as number of reps, heavy vs. light weight, etc. Everybody's body is different; you gots to learn about yours.

[The AD]

Originally posted by hev
personally i am all about the pool, you still need to do leg strengthening for skiing, but the pool tends to kick your ass in all around way similar to a rough day in the bc....plus girls in bathing suits; can't go wrong there.

I swim competitively and agree it's good training. Also agree you'll need to do separate leg training because it's difficult to get in a lot of leg work swimming. If you throw in some good hard kick sets with or without a kickboard it will help.

The only problem with swimming is it's very technique critical. If your technique isn't good you'll probably hit the anaerobic threshold pretty quick and you won't be able to continue. If your technique is good, the best way to train in swimming is by doing sets, just like in weights. So, intead of just getting in and swimming amile continuously at a moderate pace, do a set of 15x100 on an interval you can make with maybe :10 seconds rest. This is a gross simplification, but the gist is you probably won't get a lot out of just getting in a splashing around for 30 minutes. There are some good references for swimming training on the web. One good source is US Masters Swimming

The other advantage of swimming is it tends to be easier on the body than other sprots like cycling, and especially running. You can get shoulder injuries from swimming, but only if you overtrain with poor technique. Usually it's pretty easy on the joints. The down side is you smell like chlorine all the time!

[Tippster]

Originally posted by The AD
...So, intead of just getting in and swimming amile continuously at a moderate pace, do a set of 15x100 on an interval you can make with maybe :10 seconds rest...

Or you could do 16x100 for a METRIC mile...

Seriously, AD is absofrigginlutely right. I used to swim competitively as well, and breaking it into sets is the way to go. I'll break those sets into a de-facto IM (sans Butterfly - pisses too many people off at the Y). You start with 100 Free, then 100 Back and 100 Breast. If I'm doing kicks that day I'll finish that 1/4 mile with 100 of a kick, then repeat. 10-15 secs rest between hundreds (4 laps in a 25m pool) and 30 secs rest between 1/4 miles (400's), keeping track of heart-rate on my neck.

If I'm not doing kicks, I repeat the free-back-breast 100's 5 times, then finish with a 50m sprint of each of those strokes. Yeah, yeah, that's 50m more than a mile. So be it.

Interesting weight workout, Truth. I need to get back into that, now that I actually give a damn about my fitness again (I quit smoking in July! Gotta love Smoke-away!)

[truth]

Xover...plyos are great but for an untrained athlete they can do far more damage than good. Few people realize that in any training the most important thing is to use perfect form. This not only prevents injury but allows you to work the targeted area more effectively. This means that the #'s don't matter so much as the amount of work that is being done. the better the form, the harder the effort the more you get out of it. Too many peolpe waste too much time slopping through workouts with the notion that moving the weight / body is the goal. The idea is to work certain muscles in specific ways and be done so you can get on with your life.

[Xover]

T,

so .... what are you trying to say? a lil clarification homey.

[truth]

Originally posted by Xover
T,

so .... what are you trying to say? a lil clarification homey.

Plyos and an untrained athlete usually end up in PT.

Too much emphasis is placed on heavy vs light when what really matters is how hard you're working. I can squat 400#'s with shitty form and a spotter but get a better workout if I squat 185 with perfect form very slow and controlled. I've spent too much time in the gym in this life and have learned how to check my ego at the door and train hard and smart so that I can stay strong, flexible and healthy without pissing away hours every day in the gym. There is no reason to train for more than an hour on any given day unless you're riding for US Postal.