Common Sense

**Odin** · 12-29-2005, 01:30 PM

If you throw something somewhere. It lands somewhere.

If you shoot something somewhere. It lands/goes somewhere.

woulda been better if it had landed in the guy's head that shot it

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051229/...s/shot_in_head

**Tippster** · 12-29-2005, 01:32 PM

According to the Arab reporters I work with back in the glory days of Saddam when they would organize big rallies and all the men would shoot their guns in the air a whole lot of people (dozens) died when those bullets came back and landed. Gravity works!

**Odin** · 12-29-2005, 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by Tippster

Gravity works!

It isn't just for scientists anymore!

**Tippster** · 12-29-2005, 02:22 PM

Or Apples! Yay!

**MeatPuppet** · 12-29-2005, 03:31 PM

Several years ago my parents were driving home from visiting a friend, who lived in a rural area, when the back window of their car shattered for no apparent reason. They stopped the car, got out and looked around but didn't see anyone so they went home. As my dad was looking over the car he noticed a small hole in the package tray right at the corner of where the rear window used to be. Come to find out the hole went all the way down to the frame of the car where he found a .30 caliber bullet slightly mushroomed against it. The bullet hit the car at about a 60 degree angle and since my parents were on the top of a hill when the window shattered, the only explaination was that someone a long way away had fired into the air and my parents were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Yes...gravity does work.

**snow_slider** · 12-29-2005, 07:50 PM

Bullshit. I'll believe in "gravity" when I see it.

**Arty50** · 12-29-2005, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by Odin

If you throw something somewhere. It lands somewhere.

[nerd]What if you throw something in outer space?[/nerd]

**LaramieSkiBum** · 12-29-2005, 09:50 PM

I had shot land on and around me 3 or 4 times on the lower green last winter while fishing. But chances of shot landing on and around you is way higher than a bullet -
ewww.

**splat** · 12-29-2005, 09:59 PM

There was a story in Powder about skiing Lebanon during the war there back in the nineties. Lebanese soldiers had taken over a ski resort where the writer went to ski. Sitting at a table with some commander who was drunk off his ass, I believe the writer said the officer pulled out a pistol and started shooting it and nailed one of his soldiers on the balcony a few stories up.
Interesting story.

**Lurch** · 12-29-2005, 10:13 PM

Originally Posted by Tippster

According to the Arab reporters I work with back in the glory days of Saddam when they would organize big rallies and all the men would shoot their guns in the air a whole lot of people (dozens) died when those bullets came back and landed. Gravity works!

The terminal velocity of a free falling bullet is not even going to be high enough to break your skin let alone kill you!

Squatch · 12-29-2005, 10:24 PM

Originally Posted by Lurch

The terminal velocity of a free falling bullet is not even going to be high enough to break your skin let alone kill you!

Got anything to back that up?

The variables in question here are surface area and mass. It seems like a rifle bullet (full metal jacket, all that jazz) would have the right profile and weight to have a high terminal velocity. I'll get back to you with something more than speculation, though.

Squatch · 12-29-2005, 10:28 PM

valid only for .30 cal bullets, referencing an old Army test:
http://www.loadammo.com/Topics/March01.htm

for those too lazy to read, the answer for a .30 cal bullet is: "Based on the results of these tests it was concluded that the bullet return velocity was about 300 f.p.s. For the 150 gr. bullet this corresponds to an energy of 30 foot pounds. Earlier the Army had determined that, on the average, it required 60 foot pounds of energy to produce a disabling wound. Based on this information, a falling 150 gr. service bullet would not be lethal, although it could produce a serious wound."

they also said that higher calibers result in a higher terminal velocity. so if you go around firing Desert Eagles while a drunken fool, then yes, damage may ensue.

**Orange Julius** · 12-30-2005, 02:10 AM

Wouldn't a bullet have to arrive back at the ground at the same speed it left the ground?

**Spats** · 12-30-2005, 03:15 AM

Originally Posted by Tippster

Gravity works!

You are a godless heathen. Inanimate objects cannot attract each other. "Intelligent falling" is the only rational explanation.

**Alek** · 12-30-2005, 08:47 AM

Originally Posted by Spats

You are a godless heathen. Inanimate objects cannot attract each other. "Intelligent falling" is the only rational explanation.

You beat me to it! And obviously the falling MUST
be intelligently driven by the noodly appendage of the flying spaghetti monster!

**Dexter Rutecki** · 12-30-2005, 08:56 AM

In a vacuum a bullet would return at its muzzle velocity, but in reality they still come back down with enough velocity to do damage and possibly kill. Tippster is right, although his number might be a bit high. I first read about this in reference to PLO celebrations in Beirut. In fact, I believe some U.S. reporter was once seriously wounded by a falling bullet.

**Tippster** · 12-30-2005, 09:29 AM

I have nothing to back up my post, since all "facts" were anecdotal in nature. It could well be that these folks were simply shot and the "falling bullets" were blamed.

And Arty: [nerd reply] The thrown object would travel until it got caught in the Gravity well of the nearest star/planet/whatever and then slowly accelerate until it hit something. Now, had you simply let the item float in place without any motion (relative to what I know not) or gravitational forces acting on it from without then it should in theory never hit anything. [/nerd reply]

**TomK** · 12-30-2005, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by Orange Julius

Wouldn't a bullet have to arrive back at the ground at the same speed it left the ground?

Nope,

The terminal velocity of an object falling in air s the speed at which the gravitational force pulling it downwards is equal and opposite to the atmospheric drag. At this speed, the object ceases to accelerate downwards and falls at constant speed.

A bullet out of the barrel is traveling faster than TV, and slows due to drag throughout it's flight to impact.

**DJSapp** · 12-30-2005, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by TomK

Nope,

The terminal velocity of an object falling in air s the speed at which the gravitational force pulling it downwards is equal and opposite to the atmospheric drag. At this speed, the object ceases to accelerate downwards and falls at constant speed.

A bullet out of the barrel is traveling faster than TV, and slows due to drag throughout it's flight to impact.

But what if the bullet was on a tredmill that would match it's speed? Would it be able to go fast enough to kill?

**TomK** · 12-30-2005, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by DJSapp

But what if the bullet was on a tredmill that would match it's speed? Would it be able to go fast enough to kill?

You forgot to say which direction the treadmill was going

If it wasn't so buried and pointless, I'd change my reply about the plane/treadmill. I assumed too much about the control feedback loop and didn't stay with the fundimentals of the problem. Plane takes off with wheel tread spinning at 2X airframe speed.

**Lurch** · 12-30-2005, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by Squatch

valid only for .30 cal bullets, referencing an old Army test:
http://www.loadammo.com/Topics/March01.htm

for those too lazy to read, the answer for a .30 cal bullet is: "Based on the results of these tests it was concluded that the bullet return velocity was about 300 f.p.s. For the 150 gr. bullet this corresponds to an energy of 30 foot pounds. Earlier the Army had determined that, on the average, it required 60 foot pounds of energy to produce a disabling wound. Based on this information, a falling 150 gr. service bullet would not be lethal, although it could produce a serious wound."

they also said that higher calibers result in a higher terminal velocity. so if you go around firing Desert Eagles while a drunken fool, then yes, damage may ensue.

I though that a falling bullet would be similar to a falling coin but I guess I was wrong. Read the last three paragraphs of this http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a950414b.html

**Lurch** · 12-30-2005, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by DJSapp

But what if the bullet was on a tredmill that would match it's speed? Would it be able to go fast enough to kill?

What if the person holding the gun that shot the bullet was standing on a treadmill? Would he be able to run a 5 minute mile?

**Odin** · 12-30-2005, 12:44 PM

What if the flash was shot at, couldn't he just run superfast around the earth and catch the bullet thus negating it all together? Or would that spin the earth so much that we would all travel back into time thus negating the bullet all together.......