Line Elizabeth?

[Jiehkevarri]

Nay or Yay?

I mean: super sidecuts on powder skis in general? Phantoms etc.

Line markets Elizabeth: "as close as freestyle snowboard as possible"

OK, fine. But since skis and snowboards seem to be quite different animals and here on the TGR forum the general opinion is that sidecut sucks in pow, it leads me wondering why Pollard generated this kind of thing? He obvioysly knows his shit. Could it be that the sidecut is made only for carving the spins from booters? I just somehow doubt that.

I'm not buying anything here, just killing time at work - but this has been on my mind some time. (A few) Kids on NS seem to praise their new Elizabeths...are they just silly kids who don't know how to ski or innovative and open minded new school gurus who are onto something new here?

I just wonder if you make the ski wide enough, is it possible to have more sidecut without making the ski unpredictable and too hooky on soft snow? I'm thinking something like 150-120-140 in a quite short lenght,like 180cm?. (Elisabeth is 139 - 110 - 137 @ 172 cm)

Think about general freeride/freestyle snowboards: those things have a lot of sidecut but still the riders float easily, schmear their turns and in general kill it in the pow. I mean if the surface area is so huge that you basically ski on the base of the ski anyway, does the sidecut actually "hook" that much on the soft snow. Line also states something about elliptical sidecut...but isn't that common stuff in general?(K2's progressive sidecut etc.)

I just like the idea of a very wide ski that you could surf / schmear on the pow but still lay deep carved arcs on the firmer stuff + trick a bit here and there. Am I dreaming here? (or even worse should I still buy the Elizabeth...heh)

[bad_roo]

Elizabeth is the unstable hooker McConkey was talking about in 'Mental Floss'.

[marshalolson]

have you ever listened to eric pollard interviews? seen his segment in yearbook where he gets cought in multi avy's on the same line on the same day? there is no way i would ski stuff he designed.

try some 180 or 185 igneous FFF's, or look up greg at captial, or volkl sumo, or check out the birdos puder luder 152-126-142 185cm twinned

[Conundrum]

I just did a currency exchange amount on Birdos PL and it looks like about $915 USD plus shipping and anything custom you want done to the skis.

[phUnk]

have you ever listened to eric pollard interviews? seen his segment in yearbook where he gets cought in multi avy's on the same line on the same day? there is no way i would ski stuff he designed.

that's dumb.

[BakerBoy]

that's dumb.

So is marshal's recommendation of the Volkl Sumo... It's not exactly a Legend Pro at 145-125-142mm...

Besides, just because Pollard makes terrible choices in the backcountry, doesn't mean Line can't build nice skis and bindings...

The Line Invader is the most warrantied ski I've heard about so far, and Line cut all spending on the Pivogy because it's so fucked...

[marshalolson]

that's dumb.

well par-donne moi...
go ahead, throw in yearbook and decide for yourself

anyhow:

volkl sumo: 145-125-142mm 175cm twinned
iggy FFF: 145-118-125mm 180 or 185cm w/ or w/o swallowtail
birdos p.l: 152-126-142mm 175 or 185cm twinned
fatypus: 172-140-158mm 180cm twinned

or hit up greg @ capital and get a mini-thrasher 147-124-134mm

there are a few options out there for you...

all i can say is that after skiing spats alot last year, i am in the same boat, wanting that same shmearing feel, but w/ normal sidecut. super-sidecut will sacrifice straightlining capability, and will increase the likely-hood of hooking an edge in tight spots

thus my thrasher order...

[bossass]

Pollard is visionary and a damn good skier. Avy segments get put in movies for the same reason fender bender's make the evening news. Check out Pollard's segments in Propaganda or Stereotype. He's got a lazy style that's different than other pros.

You don't have to like his skis, but no reason to bag on the dude for no reason. And he didn't seem to have a problem floating slow 180s on them at Meadows last tuesday on tables that most others were afraid to straight air (due to icy/poorly groomed conditions).

[Jiehkevarri]

He's got a lazy style that's different than other pros.

I just love his style too btw.

Elizabeth is the unstable hooker McConkey was talking about in 'Mental Floss'.

I've got nothing to add here...

But yeah, Sumos came to my mind after posting this yesterday. Those other options sound interesting too! Also, Gotama & Maden's are almost in the same boat too...having that much side cut that you can pretty easily carve them on the groomers, and still plenty of float (even if the 100 is the new 80)

I guess it comes to personal preferences / style. I've skied Head 103's for a season 03/04 and those were great skis. Somehow I was still always jealous to buddies riding Gotamas etc. at the same time. I guess I value fun/playability (is that a word?) / schmearing more than straightlines and stability at (very) high speeds.

On the other hand I'd love to try Spatulas & similar skis too. I just see them as a very quiver specific in Euro resorts (= lots of traversing, lots of groomers and/or bumbs to get to/from freshies, lots of variable snow, even ice etc.)

Ok..reality check: today I'm going to ski icy park and won't need anything too fat at all. (Note to self: Gotta just work that 5-year plan of moving to the Alps permanently... Btw. In Powder's photo annual issue there was a short story about Finnish "Pekkas" in Verbier! Check it out if you got the mag available. One of the guys in the picture is my former boss..I worked as a resort guide for his travel agency in seasons 02/03 and 03/04)

[bad_roo]

The Spatulas were a whole lot more versatile than I expected and even pretty good fun on pistes. Depends on your perspective. If you see the groomers as a way to get to the good stuff, you'll get on fine with Spats. If you enjoy the finer technical points of a perfect carved turn on piste, you'll hate the Spatulas. Where they really surprised me was in off-piste snow that isn't powder. Wind crust and porridge are conditions that us Euros have to accept and learn to ski and a negative camber/sidecut ski makes it child's play. That's why I think this ski has been labelled rather unfairly as a good day powder ski only. It's not. It's a whole lot smarter than that.

[Jiehkevarri]

If you enjoy the finer technical points of a perfect carved turn on piste

Sure I do...considering I kind of have to in my home country...but:

Wind crust and porridge are conditions that us Euros have to accept and learn to ski and a negative camber/sidecut ski makes it child's play

This is so true too. And very good info from you, Roo. (TGR forum rules for this kind of stuff!Thanks) Btw. I guess they would also rule the northern areas we Finnish skiers tend to visit in the Springtime (Finnish/Swedish Lappland orway: Lyngen, Narvik, Riksgränsen etc. --> wind crust, slush snow, corn etc. is much common there than real pow)

If I've got more time in the Alps / big mountains in general, I'd serioysly considered having one Spatula-like pair in the quiver.

Btw. I'm in Cham 23.1 - 28.1...gotta check if there's any possibility to test Spats somewhere there??? (demo Spats/Birdos/DB's don't run around too much though, I guess... )

[marshalolson]

Pollard is visionary and a damn good skier. Avy segments get put in movies for the same reason fender bender's make the evening news. Check out Pollard's segments in Propaganda or Stereotype. He's got a lazy style that's different than other pros.

You don't have to like his skis, but no reason to bag on the dude for no reason. And he didn't seem to have a problem floating slow 180s on them at Meadows last tuesday on tables that most others were afraid to straight air (due to icy/poorly groomed conditions).

I hear you. He is a talented skier. period.

However, there are other options that fit better into Jiehkevarri's initial constraints...

edit: yeah, i am being a dick for no real reason... harsh comments removed

[lemon boy]

.02:

I don't think you'll ever get a ski that fat to really lay trench. That said, (experience only up to 107mm) you should be able to set a fairly acceptable edge on just about any traditional sidecut, traditional camber ski*.

There are a lot of skis out there that are much more playful than M103s without going to something like the elizabeth's (a plaything). I won't bore you with my suggestion b/c I feel like it's getting a bit too played out and is now just too pedestrian here on the board and is now a mere midfat.

edit- * with a well built ski not some floppy ass shit.

[verbier61]

In Powder's photo annual issue there was a short story about Finnish "Pekkas" in Verbier! Check it out if you got the mag available. One of the guys in the picture is my former boss..I worked as a resort guide for his travel agency in seasons 02/03 and 03/04)

waiting for you in verb...

[Stikki]

Snowboarders can carve some of the deepest trenches around, so I don’t think it’s the board/ski width that’s the problem.

For a skier the problem is getting increased leverage on skis that are increasing wider than the boot and accompanying binding connection. A snowboard and monoski work because the leverage is still near the edges, so in theory you could carve 180mm wide skis if the boot and binding width nearly matched the ski width.

[/thinking out loud]

[bossass]

I hear you. He is a talented skier. period.

However, there are other options that fit better into Jiehkevarri's initial constraints...

edit: yeah, i am being a dick for no real reason... harsh comments removed

No problem. I'm a dick for no reason like 90% of the time.

Hey Roo, you better make room in your quiver for Pontoons, eh?

I think the Line Elizabeth was exactly what McConkey was talking about in the Photo Annual article about the pontoon when he said that ski companies are making fat skis and getting it all wrong. But the elizabeth is a park ski too, believe it or not. I feel comfortable, as does Andy Mahre, on Made'ns in the park, so I can see where a fatter ski with a ton of sidecut wouldn't be that big of a deal. It would be a bit slow on the edges for the pipe, but otherwise fine. At Meadows, when I see Pollard on shitty days he's got the elizabeth, on pow days he's trucking around some prototype that appears to be some version of the prophet. He paints his 916s black too.