Please HELP!! Addicted skier almost ready to give up due to skiboot woes!

[Skip Dooley]

preferably NCAA, not just highschool and old dudes.

NCAA???

USSA or FIS? maybe

[endlesswintersnow]

I might be able to help
I have serious boot issues 7 surgeries heel pain plantar facia issues
***
1 First have a shop with a GURU no 16 yo wanna be's a, serious vetran
get another opinion
2 Take aPUSHED out shell ( plastic welding ) Punch out hot spot
3 take the LOOSER boot (AREA ) and pad it Up
wet suit scraps or, bubble wrap & duck tape get in thers NO one knows better tha you the right fir BE patient
a boot after summer the liner can "sag" that is why my boots after a couple weekends are pushed back ( Body heat / flow memory liner )

MINUS Cutting ,Dr Scholl mole skin, 1/8 thick foam like for photo frames, and similar packing materials IN small incriments
You will need to NOT make any serious decisions until after each trial you have given each modification a few hrs of time NOT in sub freezing temps because it would be hard to detect the change
cant and or shim, verrris wedge, cup to push fwd, "C" ring ankle , be careful to NOT push in the wrong direction, ie pad right to push left with me
experiment at home in afternoon with swollen feet NOT IN THE MORNING
Mike endlesswintersnow@yahoo.com
need more help no problem just be very accurate in description

[flip]

NCAA???

USSA or FIS? maybe

I meant at least as serious as NCAA. If they're serving, for example, most of the Middlebury ski team, they're going to be pretty good, even if the few national team folks go someplace else.

[Below Zero]

In the last few years I've gotten really hardcore, spending a lot of time on moguls.

BWAHAHAHAHA!

I'm sorry, but that's just too funny!

[xboat]

yeah BZ, that got the whole thread going...and then i stumbled onto this -

I might be able to help...

3 take the LOOSER boot (AREA ) and pad it Up
wet suit scraps or, bubble wrap & duck tape get in thers NO one knows better tha you the right fir BE patient
a boot after summer the liner can "sag"

and about lost it! holy crap that's funny.

the dudes telling him to stick wetsuit scraps, bubble wrap, duck tape and lumber in his boots! classic, i love it.

[Trigger]

Go to Fernie, find Top Shelf, ask for Brian or Donnie, miracles will be worked, problems will be solved

[rkagerer]

Thanks for the feedback, guys! (minus all the immature off-topic and malicious posts).

After a couple of afternoons (maybe 8 hrs altogether) in the boot shop and a couple outings to the hill, things have gotten SIGNIFICANTLY better. I must be one of the pickiest customers the poor chap's ever had, but the new bootfitter I'm working with *seems* to know his stuff. We did a bunch of shell work, and after that the Lange even with the factory liners was better than anything else I tried last or this year. You have NO IDEA how good it felt to be able to spend the day on the hill with a good snug fit that wasn't wobbling around a bunch. I was the happiest guy on the hill.

There were still some minor issues with a bit of "slip" in the left boot, but nothing we didn't think would either be fixed by the foam or addressable afterward.

So I went ahead with the foam - holy CRAP that's some TIGHT stuff!!! It feels great, 'cept possibly TOO tight around the toes (before the foam, the toes were perfect - sure, after skiing for the day I had white toes with no feeling and 20 minutes of insanely painful burn while dethawing - but I can accept 20 minutes of burn in exchange for a good day of skiing). I'm HOPING to get on the hill tomorrow to get some real feedback on the foam.

Anyway, just thought I'd post the progress in case anyone was curious how it's working out.

And to any flamers who are saying I'm a wanker who should go find some bunny-hill forums.. hey, you're entitled to your opinion, but come out for a ski with me before you pass judgement eh!

Cheers!

[runethechamp]

sure, after skiing for the day I had white toes with no feeling and 20 minutes of insanely painful burn while dethawing - but I can accept 20 minutes of burn in exchange for a good day of skiing

Please, don't do this too much. Every time you're going to fuck up your toes more. Not good

[ill-advised strategy]

www.dalebootusa.com

they get it right.

[KANUTTEN]

Thanks for the feedback, guys! (minus all the immature off-topic and malicious posts).
So I went ahead with the foam - holy CRAP that's some TIGHT stuff!!! It feels great, 'cept possibly TOO tight around the toes (before the foam, the toes were perfect - sure, after skiing for the day I had white toes with no feeling and 20 minutes of insanely painful burn while dethawing - but I can accept 20 minutes of burn in exchange for a good day of skiing). I'm HOPING to get on the hill tomorrow to get some real feedback on the foam.
Cheers!

What liner did you use. I know only of comformable personnally. First; did your boot techie dude put plastic caps around your toes before releasing the foam into the liner? This should always be done with the comformables, and probably with other liners as well. If he hasn't you should get'em warrantied.

If everything happened the way it should, but toes are still to tight, two things may be done: (1) either 0the shell is still to small, in which case you can block em in the toe area. I hear that lange's have a tendency to go back to original shellsize after blocking, though. (2) if too much foam in liner around toe area, surgical methods work. I've done this with ssuccess. You basically slice open the surface of the liner until you get to the foam (I used a scalpel, and it worked really well). When you get to the foam, just cut loose the wanted amount and remove. Stich it up when done.

Good luck, mate. Killer boots is the most important thing in the mountains.

[rkagerer]

Thanks for the tips Kanutten.

We put foam over the ankles, but not over the toes (just a bit on the outside of the toes 'knuckles' instead). :-(

So yeah, maybe that was a mistake? As nice as they were, I got the impression the guys in the shop didn't really have much experience working with foam injected liners. The other thing I'm a bit irked about is the tongues weren't centered. I didn't pick up on it as a potential problem when we were molding them, but now I realize if the tongue is off a bit to one side, it gives a fair bit of play since the leg pushes the tongue on an angle (moving it even more to the side) instead of straight forward against the shell. Just out of curiosity.. is warranty usually covered by the boot shop, or does Conformable cover 'improper installation' or whatever? Since I know just about NOTHING when it comes to foam injected boots.. would you consider these significant mistake or nothing serious?

Anyway I went back and they injected some acetone in the one toe trouble spot and it helped a helluvah lot there. The liners probably need a bit more opening up to make them skiable for a whole day (even for the most die-hard tight-fit enthusiast, I reckon!), but I want to ski 'em a bit more to see if they pack a bit more on their own first, before messing around with them further. I've noticed they packed ever so slightly after a few hours of skiing.

Presently, I can go about a half day before I can't take 'em any more. The fit is TIGHT, which is great; although its not as even as I had expected. (i.e. there are still areas that grip really tight and others that I wished gripped more)

Believe it or not, at this point I actually like the factory liners (after our shell work) better, simply because I can ski on them all day without wincing; and when I ratchet up the buckles they fit isn't that bad in terms of evenness. But I have yet to hit some seriously nasty terrain this year, so we'll see how it goes. I really hope they've packed about as much as they ever will. I might end up just beefing the factory ones up a bit more on my own with some foam where I want a little more grip, and using those. <sigh>

Oh a bit off-topic.. here's a tip I discovered (sure, maybe everyone already has heard about it, but...): If you have problems with the fabric on custom footbeds peeling off, there's this "iron-on" glue you can get from fabric stores. It is meant for hemmming pants (without having to sew) and comes in a roll just like tape. You stick it in between the two materials to bond, then pull out the iron and heat. The stuff holds great (at least so far!) and the nice thing is its a perfectly smooth bond without seams or ridges.

Found out about the stuff from my mom, believe it or not..

Cheers, and Merry Christmas!

-Richard

[IE]

Dude, that whole unevenness thing sounds fucked up... Find another shop.

[KANUTTEN]

Richard;
As I said, with the comformable foam liners you should always use PLASTIC CAPS around your toes before injecting foam into the liners. I am not talking about the pads you put on your knuckles on ancles and other places. I am talking about solid plastic caps that are way bigger than your toes. The whole purpose is to prevent foam to flow to the toes, because it shouldn't be tight there.

It sounds as if you have a warranty case. Against the shop. The manufacturer has done nothing wrong. I think the tounge thing shows the same thing - off course they should be centered! I am pretty sure they are gonna fight it though. Tip: get your facts right first: e-mail the manufacturer and make sure that they say the toe caps should be there - get this in writing. Then confront the shop with this. Your best argument is of course that the boots can't be used for a full day.

If the warranty thing doesn't work out, I would go with the surgical method. Do it yourself, don't let the shop guys deal with it (as they obviously don't know what they are doing). I have tried the aceton thing myself, but i didn't think it worked well enough. There should be plenty of space around your toes. Slice open, remove more or less all the foam from the toe area, stich up. It works. But try the warranty first, and be firm.

Good luck!

[Below Zero]

Thanks for the feedback, guys! (minus all the immature off-topic and malicious posts)

How about this for an immature post.....

You're a poopy head. Are you going to tell on me?

And to any flamers who are saying I'm a wanker who should go find some bunny-hill forums.. hey, you're entitled to your opinion, but come out for a ski with me before you pass judgement eh!

Well, then post some gnar gnar pics of yourself tearing up those moguls! I heard you are getting pretty hardcore!

[PrankMonkey]

I've been spending a lot of time on moguls.

Hmm, I think I found your first problem....

no seriously, I feel your pain. Moguls can make transparent bootfitting woes. I have issues w/ the boots (really narrow low-volume feet w/ normal width forefoot and long toes) and can almost forget about them until I get into moguls, or mank, or variable snow. Solution: I now just tele, because my crispi's miraculously fit. F*&^ you old Rossis!

Edit: Damn, Below zero beat me to it

[Big E]

I can definitely feel your pain, after going through a couple of seasons w/ ridiculously tight boots that, despite all the work I had done on them in addition to skiing on them, never packed out enough to become reasonable.

This 2nd shop doesn't really sound like a winner either. I went with heat-moldable liners, and when I had that done it was like having a NASCAR pit crew working on your feet. Having that cap on your toe when they mold 'em makes a huge difference. A few tweaks here and there and the addition of Booster Straps, and now I'm totally comfy and warm all day.