Seattle Smoking Ban

[iceman]

Well, nate, I was talking about smoke from the bar escaping outside, I don't have any data at all, but they seem to work from my experience.

[Nate Dogg]

Your last point is interesting, and I actually can't remember what the NYC code says about this--I believe smoking is allowed at places that have a ventilated, outdoor area. And I know there are some smoking rooms (like for cigars) at some places (strip clubs come to mind). But most places can't just create space for something like that (space is pretty limited here), so whatever ban exists amounts to a full ban for most small places..

For places small and large, these smoking rooms are definitely not cost effective. For the amount of trouble and money one has to go through to build one, there is absolutely no way that they can recoup what they have to put into it. On top of that, they don't get the use that people anticipate - smokers don't want to be rounded up and stuck in the corner somewhere, they want to hang out, have a smoke, and socialize with those around them.

[iceman]

Why not just let the bar owners and patrons decide what kind of bar they want, instead of legislating something regarding it.

If the patrons want to split with a non smoking/smoking section or a bar for smokers, or a bar for non smokers then let them establish it instead of the governement. This way the market responds to demand instead of arbitrary laws based on what people think is "right"

Odin and I agree.

[iceman]

Actually, that's the Libertarian in you talking.
Perhaps even the Libertine.
But not the Liberal (in todays meaning).
You are thinking old 1960s and 1970s "hippy" freedom Liberal, which is a small minority of the modern liberal power structure.

The modern left liberal Massachusetts philosophy is a very paternalistic one of protecting you from yourself or others, no matter how small the injustice.
Wherever there is a (percieved) wrong, the legislature will attempt to fix it with a new law.
Granted, the right wing moral conservatives play the same paternalistic game, but their motivation is more "God doesn't want you to . . ."

I am not a child, don't speak to me as if I am one.

[element1]

Opening boundaries doesn't endanger others nor force others to endure hazards you create. If it does, it shouldn't be done (skiing on a cornice above others, for example, or in avalanche terrain over open runs/roads, etc.).

Actually it regularly affects others, unless you want the emergency responders to just leave your dead body for the coyotes. And since there is no way to ensure gapers aren't going to trigger a slide above you I think the only logical conclusion is to close all boundaries, or ban snow. I agree with FNG, this issue could be solved easily with a little common sence, no need to push our lifestyle on others either way. I mean shit, if I had my way all you mothers would be on norplant and I would have all the freshies to myself....

3 things I want to ban....

1. 2 plankers
2. mormons
3. breeders, oh wait I already said that.
3. republicans, crap, did it again
3. telluride

lol, my wife read this and said, "Dude, you are 12 years old."

Yup, and whatcha gonna do, huh, huh!

[eldereldo]

Look, I had to leave and I didn't finish my thought in my last post , I should have waited but I hit "submit" instead.

First, I'm not really a defender of smoking per se. I wish I never started, I have never smoked in the house, I don't expose my children to it, etc., etc.

That one has always amused me, people who say they smoke, but never in the house or car with their children so they aren't exposed.

Of course children of smokers are far more likely to start smoking themselves, and unless you don't believe that cigarettes are actually harmful, you have a good chance of dieing of a smoking related illness, leaving your kids to deal with that death.

Not having ever smoked I would weigh in on the side of the argument to ban all smoking in public places, but I would settle for bars having having a truly smoke free section. And more importantly, that any of their employees who only wanted to work in that section must be allowed to. IE you hire a waitress, you cannot ask her if she will work in the smoking section, and you can't make her work there.

[Odin]

If that argument is to hold weight, you must also be in agreement that a bar owner can insulate with asbestos, use lead paint on the walls, serve under cooked pork, and have only one exit. And throw out all the sanitary laws for food preperation as well. Hey, it's personal choice right?

If a restaurant had those items I wouldn't eat there either.

I am not arguing those things, as I don't think there is an Advocacy group fighting to use lead paint on walls. I am just saying that in a commonly debated argument that people should have the right to choose instead of the government telling them.

[13]

Timely debate, my brother and I had this very debate the other day.

Crazy idea: Instead of a ban, make it so that bars that want to allow smoking apply for a license? Similar to liquor licensure?

Pros/Cons to that idea?

I've smoked pot, but I hate cigarettes, and I'm also a huge fan of personal choice with minimal government intrusion.

I have to say I enjoyed bars in Utah a lot more than I enjoy bars in Michigan, there is no ban on smoking in bars here.

[element1]

Nothing worse than riding a lift and the inconsiderate motherfucking jackass on the chair ahead of you is puffing away.

I think you should stop driving a car and heating your house with fossil fuels, because you are polutting my air you inconsiderate....

I mean please, If some guy smoking on the chair in front of you had any freaking effect then I would be stoned out of my gord everytime i got to the top of the mountain.

[element1]

nice idea 13, you could also make your bar a private club. The cover to get in could be called your membership dues.

[element1]

i gotta say, what you think that lift your ridding runs on, maybe you should stop skiing to be consistent.

[cj001f]

That one has always amused me, people who say they smoke, but never in the house or car with their children so they aren't exposed.

Of course children of smokers are far more likely to start smoking themselves, and unless you don't believe that cigarettes are actually harmful, you have a good chance of dieing of a smoking related illness, leaving your kids to deal with that death.

Everything about smokers applies to the obese/overweight. Going to ban bigmacs next? A saturated fat seating zone? Or maybe mandatory miles every day? Thank you, no.

Not having ever smoked I would weigh in on the side of the argument to ban all smoking in public places, but I would settle for bars having having a truly smoke free section. And more importantly, that any of their employees who only wanted to work in that section must be allowed to. IE you hire a waitress, you cannot ask her if she will work in the smoking section, and you can't make her work there.

Forcing people to hire workers that can't do the job, brilliant


Instead of a wholesale ban, I'm curious if legislation allowing say 10% of the bars to be smoking and only 10% would work. Would it be more desirable to be a smoking bar or not?

[element1]

It's not a question of effect. It's a question of stench.

So now were on to banning hippies because they stink, maybe you should just stay home in your win powered bubble.

[element1]

I've got an idea, everything disagreeable to anyone should be confined to the privacy of your own home?

[element1]

Attention: No fossil fuels were harmed in the production of this vehicle.

[Core Shot]

I am not a child, don't speak to me as if I am one.

According to the state of Massachusetts, you are a child and they will restrict you like one.
The hand of government grows stronger and more intrusive each day.

Embrace your Libertarian soul.

[cj001f]

Embrace your Libertarian soul.

Isn't that like white people dancing?

[ncsears]

both sides are making demands of the other. it is important to understand the differences between the demands though: one actually hurts the health of the other.

[element1]

I don't use fossil fuels to heat my house. I use wind power supported by solar. I drive a Honda FCX. Now whatchya got to say BITCH!

It's not a question of effect. It's a question of stench.


I do have a serious response to all the smokers: Please tell us why you (as in a population - maybe not you personally) feel it is ok to toss your butts out the car, onto the snow, and anywhere you damn well please? I just don't get that. You carry your pack of cigs around all day, but you can't seem to find a place for that last little peice. Why don't you just put it back in the pack until you can find a trash can?

I love it when people edit their posts. First you drove a honda electric vehicle juiced by your house, now it's suddenly a hydrogen fuel cell powered honda??? hmmm, I wonder if someone is talking shit, bitch? Maybe you can post us a picture of your cutting edge fuel cell powered vehicle? You must be nukahlar engineer?

[element1]

lol, typical 2 planker Socal BS. cheers mate, I ain't sweatin it.

[skieurmalade]

I can't explain it... seven years I smoke a pack of American Spirit Blues per day. Then I quit summer of 2004 and now I hate going into the bars where they smoke and prefer nonsmoking states/bars to smoking ones. I support the regulations I used to so adamantly loathe. At this rate of becoming what I resent I wonder if I'm going to vote republican next election. what would you all say to reefer smoke in the bar (if it was legal)?

[element1]

I would say, "spark it."

[13]

what would you all say to reefer smoke in the bar (if it was legal)?

"Got a light?"

Back to studying for finals ...

[element1]

remember, if you study stoned you should take the test stoned...

[iceman]

remember, if you study stoned you should take the test stoned...

That one is true.

As for the rest of it, all I said is that people should be able to decide for themselves where they drink, where they hang out, and all the rest. You guys want to legislate, I say common sense can work. If you think that we, as a society, need to have every action ordained fron the top and to hell with common sense and responsibility, then good luck to you.