Recommended Skis & Bindings List

[lemon boy]

frozenwattlebump

[leroy jenkins]

I was also thinking that we should get some more information for boots. I know, go to a bootfitter and get what fits, but it would probably be helpful to have a list of the popular boots people seem to like with a breif description as to the shape. Also, since every company has a different stiffness index, a list for boots, similar to the stiffness list for skis would be helpful.

I don't really have the extensive knowledge to do this, but I'll give it a start at least, I don't know a ton about the shapes of everything, but at least throw some names onto a list

I know a ton of people like langes
comp120: fairly stiff, narrow last
comp130: really friggin stiff, similar shape
fr:120 soft as fuck, slightly wider shape

I have salamons
Crossmax/Xwave10s: medium soft, wideish fit
falcon 10s, strange feeling for some people, narrower than the xwaves, bit stiffer, very light

ok, i'll think up some more latter. I guess with this people would still need to go to a bootfitter, but it would help narrow down the choices beforehand.

Also, I would just like to thank marshal olson for posting this again. I really love the way this thread has evolved and all the info that is now on it. This thread alone pretty much makes this forum the most valuable place for technical info anywhere.

[marshalolson]

i'm thinking of adding a running length measurement to the skis...

probably measure the length from tip to the end of contact point on the tail. this makes it easier to conceptualize IMHO.

ie:
193 big daddy = 185 actual
193 ANT = 176 actual
185 KW MF = 176 actual
190 Lotus 120 = 177 actual
190 Igneous = 190 actual

anyone else want to post thier measurements?

[lemon boy]

? why not just plain running length?

[marshalolson]

? why not just plain running length?

i guess i just like to think about skis as squaretails still. i suck and am old. everyone should do it the way i want it done.

plain running length is fine. post them up, bitches

[lemon boy]

never fear, the big dog squaretails will still come out the big dog.

[The Dad]

At long last, it is sticky!

Now, we need to request that the sticky request thread be made sticky....

[adam]

About fucking time . . .

[harpo-the-skier]

I think I'd recommend the 179 stiff over the soft. (Did the soft flexes ever even get made?) The stiffs are medium/soft flex anyway, and still super light. Anything softer won't really cut it on corn/hairball stuff, unless you're really light.

Where do the stiff 179 Bros (which will be the 179 softs made this summer), 05-06 Trab Freerandos, the Atomic 10/R:ex, and Line Mothership/old (97mm) Karhu Jak fit on the 1-10 stiffness scale?

[jfk]

193 big daddy = 185 actual
193 ANT = 176 actual
185 KW MF = 176 actual
190 Lotus 120 = 177 actual
190 Igneous = 190 actual

anyone else want to post thier measurements?

193 titan pro = 192.5 actual (tip to tail at its longest part (rounded off))
178.5 contact length

also, i love my titan pros. i'm 180lbs, (tele)ski fast and aggressive, but i'm not a rockstar at all (too bad..). i can't believe they're that stiff (only judging from what i've heard about the squads it's hard to believe my titans should be just as stiff). they definately are stiffer than explosives though, and seemed stiffer (in the tips) than 193 m103s, only handflexing though.

awesome job on this thread!

[adam]

This may have been answered before, but can you carve a pintail?

[Squatch]

yes. think of it as the first half of a shaped ski.

[marshalolson]

This may have been answered before, but can you carve a pintail?

yes. basically the ski carves like normal, but once you get to 35 or 45deg-ish to the fall line the tail butters out.

[mountain_man]

Marshal one question i am 170lbs and i want to know where the Seth Vicious comes into the 'flex index' after u've made changes and additions? Great thread soo helpfull it has me buzzing with new skis for my ever devaloping quiver. After reading neumerous threads i would really like to buy a set of Stockli Stormrider XL's after flexing them in store they just felt nice and looked good. Great work.

[FREESKIER_FIVE-0]

Sorry if i missed this, but shouldnt the Reactor binding be on the not recommended list?

[Brocktoon]

Great thread, MO. I need to go to a ski shop and scope some gear.

BTW, anybody have a good reference for a place to read about the different types of ski construction? I'm interested in learning about the merits of different construction methods and materials. Search function failed to deliver what I was looking for.

[marshalolson]

I'm interested in learning about the merits of different construction methods and materials. Search function failed to deliver what I was looking for.

marketing terminology makes that difficult. but long story cut down to a few sentences and grossly oversimplified and typed quickly:

either the ski is wood core, foam core, or use both (wood stringers) - a wide variety of cire densities and flex properties in each catergory. stringer width factors in for wood cores and the density of glue used;

either predominately glass topsheet, metal topsheet, carbon topsheet, or hybrid topsheets - core thickness will drastically alter the torsional rigidity supplied by the topheet material and the snapiness/dampness of the ski and metal will influence the overall weight to a large degree;

cosmetic cap, structural cap or sandwich/ABS sidewall construction - the type will also affect the dampness/rigidity of the ski as well as any shaping to the profile.

ride charecteristics vary widely with construction methods due to topsheet tickness, core density, flex profile etc...

[Brocktoon]

marketing terminology makes that difficult. but long story cut down to a few sentences and grossly oversimplified and typed quickly:

either the ski is wood core, foam core, or use both (wood stringers) - a wide variety of cire densities and flex properties in each catergory. stringer width factors in for wood cores and the density of glue used;

either predominately glass topsheet, metal topsheet, carbon topsheet, or hybrid topsheets - core thickness will drastically alter the torsional rigidity supplied by the topheet material and the snapiness/dampness of the ski and metal will influence the overall weight to a large degree;

cosmetic cap, structural cap or sandwich/ABS sidewall construction - the type will also affect the dampness/rigidity of the ski as well as any shaping to the profile.

ride charecteristics vary widely with construction methods due to topsheet tickness, core density, flex profile etc...

That's the type of discussion I'm talking about. Do you know of a good place to find a more in depth discussion of these principles? I'd like to read about the relative benefits of a foam core versus wood, cosmetic cap vs structural cap. etc. etc.

[marshalolson]

That's the type of discussion I'm talking about. Do you know of a good place to find a more in depth discussion of these principles? I'd like to read about the relative benefits of a foam core versus wood, cosmetic cap vs structural cap. etc. etc.

that's really hard to read up on... mainly because peoples biases and personal preferences factor in so greatly.

[Brocktoon]

that's really hard to read up on... mainly because peoples biases and personal preferences factor in so greatly.

That's what I was afraid of. So, what's the answer? Go to manufacturers websites and read their claims and try to talk to folks who know?

Seems like there is an info gap. Then again, maybe most folks just want to go down the hill and let engineers worry about the technical bullshit.

[lemon boy]

the answer is to ski a wide variety of skis with a wide assortment of construction methods. It is also really difficult to make accurate generalizations about one construction method over the other because it is easy (as Marshal indicated above) to hybridize and/or to build skis with one method that might otherwise feel like another.

IMO it is easier and more beneficial to come up with a general idea of the feeling you like in a ski and then search around that criteria (length, dimensions, radius, stiffness [torsional and lateral], dampening etc...) and then try to find skis that fit those requirements.

[Brocktoon]

the answer is to ski a wide variety of skis with a wide assortment of construction methods. It is also really difficult to make accurate generalizations about one construction method over the other because it is easy (as Marshal indicated above) to hybridize and/or to build skis with one method that might otherwise feel like another.

I hear what you're saying, but I think it would be very useful to compile the "conventional wisdom" in a thread similar to this one. I'd start it if I knew enough to do so, but I don't.

For example, I was present for a discussion on the merits for foam core skis versus wood core skis. While I know there are lots of different kinds of foam and wood, the take away I got from the discussion is this:

Generally, foam is lighter and more lively but less durable and has a shorter service life.

IMO it is easier and more beneficial to come up with a general idea of the feeling you like in a ski and then search around that criteria (length, dimensions, radius, stiffness [torsional and lateral], dampening etc...) and then try to find skis that fit those requirements.

I agree that this would be ideal. However, if you have a less sophisticated sense of the feeling you like in a ski, it's harder to narrow things down and know where to start. However, I have some basic design philosphies with which I approach life in general and which tend to apply across different domains.

For example, I like performance equipment but the highest performance equipment tends to be much less durable. So, I look for and prefer to purchase equipment (knives, surfboards, washing machines) that is a little more durable without sacrificing too much performance.

When spending several hundred dollars on a piece of equipment, I'm leery of "the next big thing." I am not an early adopter and tend to sit on the sidelines and wait for a design to prove itself (and become more reasonable in price - I'll ski Spats and wait for a verdict on Pontoons).

I prefer simple, elegant designs over more complicated (usually "gimmicky") designs. etc. etc.

You smellin' what I'm yellin'?

[lemon boy]

yes, you're too lazy to demo skis and a cheap bastart to boot.

[lemon boy]

Going back to marshal's earlier post there is too much personal bias to really create a good listing of those (hell, look how many pages it took to just get this list).

[Brocktoon]

yes, you're too lazy to demo skis and a cheap bastart to boot.

(truth always hurts)

Going back to marshal's earlier post there is too much personal bias to really create a good listing of those (hell, look how many pages it took to just get this list).

Concur that it took a lot to create this thread, but this may be my favorite thread on TGR (except for tonghands Pantsuit Effect - that one is a classic). The personal bias would resolve itself in the thread's debate and the merits of each position could be weighed by the reader.

OK, I'll stop cunting up this sweet thread with my whining. Once again, great thread MO.