Bush on the lack of WMDs- "what's the difference?" NSR

[dipstik]

Originally posted by irul&ublo
Dipstick will now lead us all in the singing of "Stand By Your Man".

YOUR WRONG!!! ONLY MY OPINION IS RIGHT!!! EVERYONE WHO HAS A DIFERENT OPINION FROM ME IS STUPID!!!

look guy, this is a simple debate between the left and the right. I'm not personally attacking anyone, just expressing my views. I know my opinions wont change yours, and yours def. wont change mine, so theres no need to be a dick. If your best defense is that some stupid comment like "bush is stupid and hes dumb and he is very unsmart" than you are not really progressing the debate at all. Were just having a good healthy argument, and if you can't contribute something half way intelligent than don't bother saying anything at all.

It's just for fun, even though I completley and 100% disagree with milkman, he's probably still a sick skier and thats all that I care about.

this goes for everyone else making unbacked opinions.

[Buster Highmen]

Consider whether or not the process is important.

America is the best country in the world because of our processes, because we assume innocent until proven guilty, because we believe that everyone should get a chance, because we believe in separation of Church and State.
I won't drone on about GW. But we, as Americans, should consider whether he is upholding our traditions of due process.

It doesn't matter whether the WMDs are found. What matters is that no one had any substantive evidence that they existed at the time of the invasion of Iraq.

If, as Americans, we agree that it doesn't matter, then I will stand up to disagree.

[Ireallyliketoski2]

Originally posted by splat
If Bush went on TV and said, "All Americans will now get gas at twenty five cents a gallon, at least $80 billion dollars worth," I bet the chorus would be deafening. Instead the lyrics are more like "Cheney's the man...He's gonna take your money...Even if you don't understaaaaaaaaand...Cheeeeneeeys yooooou'rrrre maaaaan"

Kind of touching on what you were talking about before splat, does anyone else wonder why the price of gasoline has basically not increased at all in the last 30 years. Surely it has to do with the fact that if gas were 4-5 bucks a gallon like in Europe that we would all end up having to sell all our SUVs and buy Geo Metros, then the Big 3 Motor Co's wouldn't make any money because they make most of their money selling trucks and the Oil companies wouldn't make any money sellling gas.

Back this summer when gas was around 2-2.50 dollars a gallon here, I was watching a news segment and they were interviewing people at the gas pumps and there are MANY suv's at the pumps here, the number one comment was "Gee I should have bought something else, this is costing me 80 dollars a pop" But now that gas prices are down again, the SUV's are flying off the lots and we're all worse off for it.

[Telephil]

Originally posted by Ireallyliketoski
Kind of touching on what you were talking about before splat, does anyone else wonder why the price of gasoline has basically not increased at all in the last 30 years. Surely it has to do with the fact that if gas were 4-5 bucks a gallon like in Europe that we would all end up having to sell all our SUVs and buy Geo Metros, then the Big 3 Motor Co's wouldn't make any money because they make most of their money selling trucks and the Oil companies wouldn't make any money sellling gas.

Back this summer when gas was around 2-2.50 dollars a gallon here, I was watching a news segment and they were interviewing people at the gas pumps and there are MANY suv's at the pumps here, the number one comment was "Gee I should have bought something else, this is costing me 80 dollars a pop" But now that gas prices are down again, the SUV's are flying off the lots and we're all worse off for it.

I love mine, loved it this summer when gas prices were high. I commute 90 miles in a day to work and back, pay out the ass for it, but I love it.

[Buster Highmen]

The President is only a symptom.
We are the disease if we are negligent of our commitment to the underlying principles of America.

[Ireallyliketoski2]

Originally posted by Telephil
I love mine, loved it this summer when gas prices were high. I commute 90 miles in a day to work and back, pay out the ass for it, but I love it.

Yep, everyone loves their SUV's.

[Dexter Rutecki]

Originally posted by CantDog
There was an interesting segment on NPR yesterday, an interview with Max somethingorother, the head weapons inspector for the UN.

Hans Blix?
It's fun to say his name with weird emphasis and accents.

[Blurred Elevens]

Originally posted by Buster Highmen
Consider whether or not the process is important.

America is the best country in the world because of our processes, because we assume innocent until proven guilty, because we believe that everyone should get a chance, because we believe in separation of Church and State.
I won't drone on about GW. But we, as Americans, should consider whether he is upholding our traditions of due process.

It doesn't matter whether the WMDs are found. What matters is that no one had any substantive evidence that they existed at the time of the invasion of Iraq.

If, as Americans, we agree that it doesn't matter, then I will stand up to disagree.

Innocent until proven guilt??? That's the biggest crock of shit ever fed to us. If there's a warrant for you, you go to jail. Just like Kobe. (please don't sideline this thread) He was in jail before they had even decided to "try him". You're guilty until proven innocent.

Beyond all this, The Patriot Act is the biggest violation of our rights ever. Fuckers can come into your house while your gone, look through all your shit, and then leave not telling you were there...LEGALLY!!! Why in the fuck aren't people standing up to stop that shit??!! How is this any different than tactics used by the Gestapo??
GRRRRR!!!

[Dexter Rutecki]

Originally posted by Buster Highmen

It doesn't matter whether the WMDs are found. What matters is that no one had any substantive evidence that they existed at the time of the invasion of Iraq.

What may be even more important is the fact that the administration had reliable information that WMDs were not in Iraq, but chose to use other intelligence in order to 'sell' the war.
And the right was upset that Clinton lied over a blow-job.

[milkman]

Originally posted by dipstik
[
It's just for fun, even though I completley and 100% disagree with milkman, he's probably still a sick skier and thats all that I care about.

[/B]

I guess we can agree to disagree. I do enjoy hearing other points of view, but still disagree with the way you perceive the Iraq situation. Skiing is why we're all here though. Intelligent political discussion is fun as well as long as it's backed up by some facts.

[Buster Highmen]

Originally posted by Blurred Elevens
Innocent until proven guilt??? That's the biggest crock of shit ever fed to us. If there's a warrant for you, you go to jail. Just like Kobe. (please don't sideline this thread) He was in jail before they had even decided to "try him". You're guilty until proven innocent.

Beyond all this, The Patriot Act is the biggest violation of our rights ever. Fuckers can come into your house while your gone, look through all your shit, and then leave not telling you were there...LEGALLY!!! Why in the fuck aren't people standing up to stop that shit??!! How is this any different than tactics used by the Gestapo??
GRRRRR!!!

Innocent until proven guilty is not a crock of shit. It's one of the cornerstones of America. Don't forget that GW signed The Patriot Act, even though there was bipartisan support.

THe issue of the Patriot Act is a perfect example of why we've got to stop being such reductionist idiots and vote the people who support the Patriot Act out of office. That includes Cantwell, Murray and Bush.

[grrrr]

I consider myself neither right nor left, but I will vote against Bush because he is selling America to the highest bidder. Right now, Clark is my pick.

Unfortunately, in the 23 years since I came of age, I have never once backed the candidate who won. My vote may be the kiss of death.

[Blurred Elevens]

Originally posted by Dexter Rutecki
What may be even more important is the fact that the administration had reliable information that WMDs were not in Iraq, but chose to use other intelligence in order to 'sell' the war.
And the right was upset that Clinton lied over a blow-job.

Prove it Dumbfuck. Also please include proof of the shooter on the grassy knoll.........Jackoff.

[Dexter Rutecki]

Hey, dipshit, just because you're not smart enough to read anything aside from USA Today doesn't mean I need to keep you informed.
You are a stupid pile of moronic donkey shit.

[splat]

Originally posted by Ireallyliketoski
Kind of touching on what you were talking about before splat, does anyone else wonder why the price of gasoline has basically not increased at all in the last 30 years. Surely it has to do with the fact that if gas were 4-5 bucks a gallon like in Europe that we would all end up having to sell all our SUVs and buy Geo Metros, then the Big 3 Motor Co's wouldn't make any money because they make most of their money selling trucks and the Oil companies wouldn't make any money sellling gas.

Back this summer when gas was around 2-2.50 dollars a gallon here, I was watching a news segment and they were interviewing people at the gas pumps and there are MANY suv's at the pumps here, the number one comment was "Gee I should have bought something else, this is costing me 80 dollars a pop" But now that gas prices are down again, the SUV's are flying off the lots and we're all worse off for it.

Even in Europe, you can get an SUV that gets 40-60 mpg. Also, in 1973, people freaked when gas hit $0.28 a gallon after the Arabs nationalized American oil assets and the Arab Oil Embargo went into effect against the US. My overwhelming concern here, and it dovetails into what Buster said, is that when corporations lobby politicians to act against the best intrests of Americans and only in the best interests of corporate profits, we will eventually see corporations do away with due process, Constitutional rights, fair elections and anything else that threatens their deathgrip on Americans' pursestrings. In essence, politicians already are corporate officers waving the banner of being elected officials under the guise of "freedom". Because elections are bought, not won. The minute I heard GW had like $200 million in his campaign fund, before he had even announced his candidacy, I knew what the outcome would be.

[Blurred Elevens]

Originally posted by Buster Highmen
Innocent until proven guilty is not a crock of shit. It's one of the cornerstones of America. Don't forget that GW signed The Patriot Act, even though there was bipartisan support.

THe issue of the Patriot Act is a perfect example of why we've got to stop being such reductionist idiots and vote the people who support the Patriot Act out of office. That includes Cantwell, Murray and Bush.

First of all, I'm not a knee-jerk Bush supporter. I can still like the guy even if I don't agree with everything he does. (Knee-jerk- meaning I don't agree with everything a politician says/does without knowing the facts, unlike alot of the kneejerk liberals represented here) I don't agree with any politician that had a part in the Patriot Act. I do take into account though the seriousness of 9-11, and the wave of emotion that followed those circumstances. Everybody was for anything that might prevent a tragedy like that from ever occuring again, and throwing common sense out the window.

If innocent before guilty is a cornerstone, than that corner fell off a LONG time ago. Alledged(sp?) is the most used word in the courts today. You go to jail for when not proven guilty, and if your found guilty, you just stay there. If found innocent, you are released, but were jailed for no reason in the first place. It's a crock.

[Blurred Elevens]

Originally posted by Dexter Rutecki
Hey, dipshit, just because you're not smart enough to read anything aside from USA Today doesn't mean I need to keep you informed.
You are a stupid pile of moronic donkey shit.

You know, it's assholes like you that complain about the toothpick in my eye, disregarding the plank in yours.

What you don't realise is that the media is LIBERAL now days jackoff. That means they support YOUR point of view. You keeping ME informed? With what? Your proof that the US knew WMD's were NOT in Iraq? Where'd you score that scoop Einstein?

It's people like you that THINK they know what the fuck they're talking about when they don't that are really scary. Go read the GOTCHA thread before criticising me with your brainwashed rhetoric from the left, douchebag.

[tuffy109]

Originally posted by Dexter Rutecki
Hey, dipshit, just because you're not smart enough to read anything aside from USA Today doesn't mean I need to keep you informed.

hahahaha

prove it jerkoff jackoff moron jong!

[detroit]

Just wondering. Does it snow in Iraq? Did Saddam ski?(Wait,no he probably rode ). Does GW ski?

[Blurred Elevens]

Originally posted by tuffy109
hahahaha

prove it jerkoff jackoff moron jong!

Glad you could make it!
We've been waiting for the circle-jerk reinforcements!
What took you so long, were you busy making up useless facts on some other website?

It's really great to see 2 men in love, welcome back Tuffy!

[Chronic]

Originally posted by Blurred Elevens


Saddam kicked out weapons inspectors...If OR if not he had WMD's, what a dumb fucking move! What'd he expect??! That's an admission of guilt right there.

I hesitate to add to one of these right v. left political threads but...

I initially thought Saddam had WMDs - not because Dubya said so, but because of Saddam's actions. Like Blurred, I thought that he must have them if he's kicking inspectors out of the country, placing all these restrictions on them, etc. Then, several months ago, I heard a pretty convincing argument that Saddam didn't have WMD's at the time we invaded. It was important for Saddam to maintain his prestige as a tough guy in the Arab world, and intimidate his neighbors and possessing WMDs was a great way to do this. But he also had to deal with the UN resolutions and U.S. scrutiny to eliminate all WMDs. So, he walked a fine line, bluffing and dodging to make it appear that he might have WMDs, when in fact all of them had been destroyed. He never thought the U.S. would invade - and that miscalculation cost him everything. And I believe that our intelligence agencies knew this.

I think that if Iraq in fact had WMDs, we would have found something by now.

Leaving aside the debate on whether this Iraq adventure is ultimately good or bad for the U.S., I believe the U.S. government knowingly misled the American people when they claimed Iraq had WMDs.

[Dexter Rutecki]

Originally posted by tuffy109
hahahaha

prove it jerkoff jackoff moron jong!

I can't because the media is owned by liberal brainwashers, like Rupert Murdoch at Fox, and General Electric over at NBC. Real liberal, anti-establishment group at GE.

[Ireallyliketoski2]

Originally posted by Blurred Elevens
First of all, I'm not a knee-jerk Bush supporter. I can still like the guy even if I don't agree with everything he does. (Knee-jerk- meaning I don't agree with everything a politician says/does without knowing the facts, unlike alot of the kneejerk liberals represented here) I don't agree with any politician that had a part in the Patriot Act. I do take into account though the seriousness of 9-11, and the wave of emotion that followed those circumstances. Everybody was for anything that might prevent a tragedy like that from ever occuring again, and throwing common sense out the window.

If innocent before guilty is a cornerstone, than that corner fell off a LONG time ago. Alledged(sp?) is the most used word in the courts today. You go to jail for when not proven guilty, and if your found guilty, you just stay there. If found innocent, you are released, but were jailed for no reason in the first place. It's a crock.

Agreed that the Patriot Act is the biggest threat to Civil Liberties since the Tea Act of 1768.

Agreed that the corporate interests in government are ruining this country, but politics has always been about money. That seems to me to be more of the same.


Disagree with the death of innocent before proven guilty, that is still alive and well. If you are charged with a crime, there is usually good reason, but you are not convicted. First, they will detain you, and then you can be released for the hearing. But you are innocent until proven guilty in this country, just because they held you in a cell over night does not mean you are guilty. It's all about due process, the problem is that due process is becomes a little hazy if you are perceived as a threat to national security, then I'm pretty sure that they can shoot you on spot.

This thread has become an amalgamation of a juggernaut of opinions. Debate is good, sharpens the mind.

[milkman]

Originally posted by Blurred Elevens
You know, it's assholes like you that complain about the toothpick in my eye, disregarding the plank in yours.

What you don't realise is that the media is LIBERAL now days jackoff. That means they support YOUR point of view. You keeping ME informed? With what? Your proof that the US knew WMD's were NOT in Iraq? Where'd you score that scoop Einstein?

It's people like you that THINK they know what the fuck they're talking about when they don't that are really scary. Go read the GOTCHA thread before criticising me with your brainwashed rhetoric from the left, douchebag.

Haha. CNN, MSNBC and FOX news are Liberal? That's insane buddy boy. Where do you actually get your facts from? I'm willing to read some of your sources.

[Dexter Rutecki]

Originally posted by Blurred Elevens

It's really great to see 2 men in love, welcome back Tuffy!

Stop making passes at Tuffy. Doesn't your institution have any man-love for you to find?