I don't get it

**Powdurr** · 11-16-2005, 02:15 PM

Whats the big deal with trams and gondolas? Do you guys really like them? I mean, theres all this whining about Jackson's tram coming down and all that. I prefer a nice high speed quad. The last thing I want to do while skiing is take my skis off, and get inside a little tram and stand up in ski boots, holding my skis, with way too many people around. Unless its like -20 and windy as hell, I'd prefer a high speed quad any day. Last time I was at snowbird, I realized how stupid trams are. You have to go take your skis off, then wait in line on some cement walkway, carrying your skis the whole time, then go through a bunch of turnstyles and all that. Screw that is what I say.

**Buster Highmen** · 11-16-2005, 02:17 PM

Tower four in a windstorm on a quad. That would r00l.

**Endlessseason** · 11-16-2005, 02:19 PM

I don't know whether you're being serious, but the group I ski with feels the same way. It's a waste of valuable skiing time on a crowded day. On a "walk-on" day I don't really have a complaint.

____________________________________
"Remedial education for students of life."

**skiski** · 11-16-2005, 02:30 PM

A chair at the top of jackson would be blown down 50% of the time.

**Tippster** · 11-16-2005, 02:53 PM

I like the terrain they access, and the fact they keep the skier numbers FAR lower than a Quad.

Edit: Trams. Fuck Gondolas.

**72Twenty** · 11-16-2005, 02:56 PM

I prefer rickety old double chairs.

**The Reverend Floater** · 11-16-2005, 03:02 PM

I will answer your question thoughtfully if you tell me who you are. Where do you work? Throw us a bone here. Me, Jimmy Page and Super G are all homies....another mag in SV needs to be known!

**A-wreck** · 11-16-2005, 03:03 PM

I feel that way about the bird tram.
I've never even been on it.
The people I ski with just don't use it.
At least when Iv'e been there.

**Tippster** · 11-16-2005, 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by A-wreck

I feel that way about the bird tram.
I've never even been on it.
The people I ski with just don't use it.
At least when Iv'e been there.

You need to ski with different people then. The Tram accesses the goods... there's a reason why the top rated lifts (forgot where that damn thread is) by maggots are the trams at Chamonix, Snowbird, and J-Hole.

**BOOMTOWN58** · 11-16-2005, 03:15 PM

The gondolas at Snowbasin are sweet! Plenty of room and no lines. Much easier to keep things lit if you know what I mean.

**A-wreck** · 11-16-2005, 03:17 PM

Yeah but, I still get to the top of the bird using lifts.

I'm not totally opposed to a tram but, If there is a huge line for it and I can just jump on two chairs and get there then, why would I use it?

I just have never used the bird tram, that's all. I guess I was more or less agreeing with endless.

**Buzzworthy** · 11-16-2005, 03:23 PM

I have always bought Birds tram ticket, use the tram for first ride up, then have never taken a second ride on it in the same day. I too am not a fan of the cattle car, unless you can walk on and I don't normally come back to that area, unless it was a cheap ticket and I want beers at the deck.

Jackson, just want one ride to say I did.

**Tippster** · 11-16-2005, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by A-wreck

Yeah but, I still get to the top of the bird using lifts.

I'm not totally opposed to a tram but, If there is a huge line for it and I can just jump on two chairs and get there then, why would I use it?

I just have never used the bird tram, that's all. I guess I was more or less agreeing with endless.

The problem is you don't get there. Little Cloud drops you too low to hit Baldy. You'd have to go down Mineral and back up the Quad. Doable, and like Buzz - the plan after the first run (or three) but ... nevermind. Trams suck.

Disclaimer: If there was no non-Tram option I'd never ski Snowbird. EVER.

**lemon boy** · 11-16-2005, 03:43 PM

:shrug: People don't like Trams? I am shocked! SHOCKED I tell ya!

A-wreck, your buddies probably have the less expensive chairs only passes. I just can't believe that people wouldn't do tram laps. Wierdos!

**A-wreck** · 11-16-2005, 03:50 PM

[QUOTE=lemon boy

A-wreck, your buddies probably have the less expensive chairs only passes. I just can't believe that people wouldn't do tram laps. Wierdos![/QUOTE]

No they don't. They all have alta/bird tram passes. They just don't use it. I'm sure they use it when it's not crowded and they can walk on. But it's never been like that when I've been there so I've only used the lifts. I'd use it if it was walk on.

At jackson, not using the tram is pretty retarded.

Again, I'm not totally against trams, I was just more or less agreeing with endless that unless you can walk on, it's not that sweet. (at the bird)

**lemon boy** · 11-16-2005, 03:53 PM

the fallacy of crowded slow highway vs. less crowded surface streets.

It's okay, it is no skin off my nose but I gaurantee you that even on a line into the plaza day you can bust out more cirque laps via the tram than on chairs.

**jhveteran** · 11-16-2005, 03:57 PM

Originally Posted by Powdurr

Whats the big deal with trams and gondolas? Do you guys really like them? I mean, theres all this whining about Jackson's tram coming down and all that.

Jackson Hole alternatives (times and vertical quoted from the JH trail map):

Ride the tram:

4,139 vertical feet. All skiable with minimal traversing if you choose. Ride time... 10 minutes. Includes skiing Rendezvous Bowl.

Ride the gondola/chairs:

Gondola Ride (2,730 vertical feet, 7 minutes), Thunder Chair (1,456 vertical feet, 7 minutes), Sublette Chair (1,630 vertical feet, 8 minutes). Total vertical = 5,816. Total ride time... 22 minutes.

Tram ride = 414 vertical feet per minute of lift riding.

Gondola/chairs = 264 vertical feet per minute of lift riding.

Riding the tram gets you more vertical feet in less time, takes you to the summit of the mountain, and lets you ski Rendezvous Bowl and the Hobacks/Lower Faces with minimal traversing.

Riding the gondola and chairs means quite a lot of skiing/traversing to get to much of the same terrain.

Originally Posted by Powdurr

I prefer a nice high speed quad. The last thing I want to do while skiing is take my skis off, and get inside a little tram and stand up in ski boots, holding my skis, with way too many people around. Unless its like -20 and windy as hell, I'd prefer a high speed quad any day.

Well, it's often windy as hell at the top of the two highest chairs in Jackson. Dress warmly.

The reason both the Snowbird and JH trams tend to have long liftlines is that they're the most efficient way to get uphill. If you skied either place regularly and you had a no-liftline choice of tram or chairs all day, I'm pretty sure you'd take the tram.

**Shepherd Wong** · 11-16-2005, 04:26 PM

Wow I think at least half of my days at the bird are spent only riding the tram.
No lifts at all.

**MacDaddy** · 11-16-2005, 04:29 PM

The Tram is for HARDCOREMOFOS only!

**Buzzworthy** · 11-16-2005, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by MacDaddy

The Tram is for HARDCOREMOFOS only!

In white sleeveless fartbags with an Elvis wig!

**LIP** · 11-16-2005, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by jhveteran

Jackson Hole alternatives (times and vertical quoted from the JH trail map):

Ride the tram:

4,139 vertical feet. All skiable with minimal traversing if you choose. Ride time... 10 minutes. Includes skiing Rendezvous Bowl.

Ride the gondola/chairs:

Gondola Ride (2,730 vertical feet, 7 minutes), Thunder Chair (1,456 vertical feet, 7 minutes), Sublette Chair (1,630 vertical feet, 8 minutes). Total vertical = 5,816. Total ride time... 22 minutes.

Tram ride = 414 vertical feet per minute of lift riding.

Gondola/chairs = 264 vertical feet per minute of lift riding.

Riding the tram gets you more vertical feet in less time, takes you to the summit of the mountain, and lets you ski Rendezvous Bowl and the Hobacks/Lower Faces with minimal traversing.

Riding the gondola and chairs means quite a lot of skiing/traversing to get to much of the same terrain.

Well, it's often windy as hell at the top of the two highest chairs in Jackson. Dress warmly.

The reason both the Snowbird and JH trams tend to have long liftlines is that they're the most efficient way to get uphill. If you skied either place regularly and you had a no-liftline choice of tram or chairs all day, I'm pretty sure you'd take the tram.

No line=tram all the way. If it's 3-4 box wait, gimme the chairs. Rather ski ANYTHING than wait in line for an hour.

**Nate Dogg** · 11-16-2005, 04:59 PM

If you were to put a quad and a tram in the exact same location, both going from point A to point B, I would pick the quad 85% of the time. The only purpose a tram serves in my mind is shelter from extreme weather conditions, and accessing terrain where it is difficult to build a quad. Waiting for the tram sucks, taking off your skis sucks, piling in and squeezing up against a bunch of people sucks....

Seriously, I think the only reason that this crowd favors them is because they can access just about anything, not because they are more efficient or convenient. Quads can still run in very high winds, as I've discovered on more than one occasion....at Wildcat numerous times, and going back to Ischgl from Samnaun when I was actually rather concerned about my safety. If there is a bubble on the quad I'm game for any weather, if not I may not be able to endure a full day of windy trips.

**freshie247** · 11-16-2005, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by lemon boy

It's okay, it is no skin off my nose but I gaurantee you that even on a line into the plaza day you can bust out more cirque laps via the tram than on chairs.

I disagree & have a longtime friend who has disproven this theorem many times over in the last 15 years skiing there.If there's any line at the tram,Gadzoom to Little Cloud is much faster & better.If there's no line & you can walk onto the tram,it's the goods.

This happens about as often as compassionate conservatism does in the Bush Admin.

Jackson needs another way to the top besides the tram.I HATE waiting 45 minutes to get to the top.

**sea2ski** · 11-16-2005, 05:17 PM

Well, I find that the entertainment value of the tram experience to be completely ignored in this thread so far. I mean how many times do you get to watch one of your extremely hungover ski buddies nearly lose his breakfast on several people without a crowded tram on a windy day.