Wrangler vs. Outback Sport?

[Blatant]

have you been checking autotrader.com for various cities? I'm tellin you there's a bunch here and due to there being no weather in Phx but miserable hot, sub's are not as hot a commodity as they are in foul weather locals (almost everywhere else) and they tend to be in very good condition and usually owned by older people who tend to beat them much less and actually main't them.

what was wrong with it?

[snowfire]

have you been checking autotrader.com for various cities? I'm tellin you there's a bunch here and due to there being no weather in Phx but miserable hot, sub's are not as hot a commodity as they are in foul weather locals (almost everywhere else) and they tend to be in very good condition and usually owned by older people who tend to beat them much less and actually main't them.

what was wrong with it?

Th

There is actually one I looked at in Phoenix, but it was pretty expensive (9500 for a '98 with 68K miles). I definitely can't afford that. It's at a place called Consolidated Auto Sales and it was on cars.com. I've looked at other cities, hence the dallas one (2000 with 75.5K miles for $8500). It's cheaper than the phoenix one. Also, there's one in Sioux Falls for $5300 ('98 w. 80K miles) which is pretty cheap, but as I found out yesterday if the car is cheaper than it should be there's probably something wrong.

The one in Boulder... well, there was a page long list of problems that came to over $2000. Also she said the car had been involved in a head on collision and did not look like it had been well taken care of, and she recommended I not buy it. It was hard because I really loved the car, and it looks perfect from the outside and drove great, but if shit's that fucked up under the hood I don't want to throw a bunch of money into it.

balls.

[snowfire]

I just talked to teh Dallas one, he's also selling the car on ebay. I dunno, that just sketches me out. He said he's had it inspected, and it supposedly comes with some sort of a 3 month warranty. He's emailing me the inspection documents. I dunno. Also, he listed it for $85, and I talked with him about 20 minutes trying to get him down to $75 and the lowest he would go was $79. So, gotta decide if it would be best to take it for $79 or bid on the auction and try to get it for cheaper?

hmm.

Any Dallas maggots around that could check it out for me?? heheh

I had this thought for about 2 seconds until I realised that there is about a 99% chance no one on here is from Texas.

edit: one-way flights to dallas start at around $270. The guy said I could probably ship it for around $400. Worth it? hmmm.

[Blatant]

Make sure the cities you're looking in has a major airport. 400 for shipping seems unrealistic too me, having shipped a few vehicles in the past...i was in for bout 800 to a G and that was when fuel was .90 a gallon.

It's going to be pretty hard to negotiate something on the phone...

[snowfire]

It's going to be pretty hard to negotiate something on the phone...

yeah, but there's nothing I can really do about that. I'm not going to fly out to Dallas or something and possibly not come home with a car. $400 did seem pretty cheap, AAA quoted me $750. The guy probably quoted me an unrealistic price to reel me in. Who knows.

I think I need a vacation.

[DerJaeger]

Have you settled on a subi, or are you still considering other options?

The Jeep Cherokees are a great buy from a low cost of ownership perspective. Sure they use more gas, but anytime you get work done on it, it'll be far cheaper than any Subaru. Any mechanic can work on them, and it's a domestic vehicle, so parts are cheap.

That said, my Jeeps have all been pretty good to me in that regard. Cherokees especially, because they've have the bugs basically sorted out because they've been around so long.

The downside is that Jeeps are rough, noisy and handle poorly in comparision to any car. In the snow, the poor mass distribution and hard suspension really makes itself felt - I find they tend to skate a bit on ice (although the newer Grand Cherokees are an order of magnitude better - almost car-like in their handling). The virtue of Jeeps is that they're cheap, tough and no-frills. If you've got a very tight budget, a good used '97 onwards Cherokee is much less likely than any Subaru to give you a nasty (expensive) surprise later.

On the topic of Jeeps, I think someone mentioned the full-time 4WD option available on Cherokees (its called SelecTrac). That's a nice option if you can get it, but keep in mind that even with this, the Subaru is a superior snow car.

Another thing to think about: the Subarus in the age range you're looking at are somewhat lacking in power, exept the 2.5L (which was available in the RS - not sure if it was ever available in the Outback Sport) is merely "reasonable"), so if performance is important to you, you're going to find those Subarus take a bit of getting used to. Especially with an automatic transmission.

[Cornholio]

I think I need a vacation.

You should take a road trip!

sorry.

[snowfire]

heheh. Don't have a safe car to do it in. I'll have to decide between flying to dallas and driving home or getting the car shipped. I'll have to add up all the costs.

Biggest problem now is getting the dude to email me the inspection records. He keeps saying he'll do it but hasn't had time. It's sketchy to buy a car that I can't drive and even more so if I haven't taken it to a mechanic.

Also trying to decide whether to take my chances and bid on ebay or to just buy it now for $7900. He listed it for $8500 but said he'd take 79...

[Cornholio]

Remember the car in Boulder that was so great but then had all the lemon-ness? How do you know the Dallas car isn't the same without taking it to a mechanic?

[snowfire]

yeah, I know. That's why I'm so sketched out to buy a car over ebay or over the phone without actually seeing it/driving it/taking it to a mechanic. I'm starting to think this is just another one of my hare-brained ideas that will never amount to anything.

He swears up and down that it's been inspected and it's clean, but even I'm not stupid enough to trust a used car dealer. (no offense to any of those in here, of course. )

[Blatant]

fawk dude, there are 49 other states, pick one with a Mag in it and have them go sniff around a subie near them and takes some pics and give you an actual account of the shit.....

[snowfire]

Ok, I"m working on one in Phoenix, but it's way over priced. If you would be willing to look at it for me it would be awesome. I'll let you know if it works out.

[lemon boy]

fate is whispering a siren's song to you


cheeeeerrrokeeeeeeeeeeee cheeerokeeeeeee

[snowfire]

yeah, I"ve been thinking that. Gas mileage just doesn't compare though.

[lemon boy]

I don't mean to be blunt but I'm going to be:

Between the lower cost of maintenance and the lower purchase price you will never recoup the difference buying a suby over a jeep. Yes, its nice to brag about how good a mileage you get and it makes you feel good but $ wise the jeep'll put you ahead, and way the fuck further up 4wd roads Suby's simply don't get that much better mileage. And I don't know but suspect that the suby's speck 87 octane and the jeep specs 85.

[uglymoney]

And I don't know but suspect that the suby's speck 87 octane and the jeep specs 85.

Your right. You can't run 85 in my 02 Outback with the 2.5. I have tried a couple of times and even at extremely high altitudes, the engine pings unless you are extremely careful with the throttle. I have also seen a letter directly from Subaru Tech stating that 87 is the bare minimum octane in the 4 banger even at altitude.

I bought my 02 new in 02. I love the car and have no intention of trading it, or getting rid of it for 7 more years. I tried to buy a used Subaru, and simply ran out of time trying to find a decent deal. My old car gave in and I needed a ride so I bought new. Used prices on Subaru's tend to be ridiculous until they are pretty much used up or over 10 years old imo. Its a good thing for owners who choose to sell, but for the used buyer, its tough. Good deals are out there though for the dedicated hard core shopper, but I feel the pain of the used Subaru shopper. Frustrating.

Have you (snowfire) considered something like a Ford Escape/Mazda Tribute? Sort of strikes the middle ground between the Cherokee and the Subaru, with better mileage/on road manners/ and probably reliability than the the Jeep, and a rate of depreciation that is somewhere between the two meaning that a decent deal on some of the earlier models might be easier to come by than with a Suby. They are pretty blah though.

[riderspro]

What a timely thread. I just logged in here as my other board is doing some construction. I drive a Jeep and would consider a suby for an option.

I am on my second Cherokee Sport. I drove the first one to about 90k miles, and this one is right about there as well. They are very reliable up to this point, and my brother has one that he drove to 245k miles, but he did drop a new engine in it. The engine was surprisingly cheap, but I don't remember just what it was, but they are so common...

As for ice, yes the suby will be better with the AWD. (I had an Eagle Talon AWD for a while) In deep snow drifts busting through snowplow leftovers, I would rather have the Jeep. You do need to find the one with full time 4wd, otherwise you have to shift in and out of 4wd all the time on icy/dry roads. I think that option may only come on the automatic, which is what I wanted due to heavy city driving also. With the full time 4wd, I feel totally confident on black ice whatever. Don't chance it in 2wd though, just shift in when it starts getting sketchy...

I have actually been thinking about trading this one for a suby for better gas mileage, but I think some people in here are spot on about the higher maintenance costs for subies, if anything goes wrong, I would imagine it would be pricey. But, I have also heard of people driving them forever. I think it is the engine that lasts forever, but things like the suspension, alignment, CV boots, spark plugs (do you have to lift the engine to replace spark plugs? you did on my Eagle), even down to cracked headlights. For me in my Jeep, new headlight, 10 bucks. What does a new headlight cost in a outback? $150?

Don't get me wrong, I miss my car a lot on long highway trips. Car is much more comfortable. And yes, I drive the evil SUV. But still, in reality, gas mileage is similar, especially if you were to be looking for a WRX (and I am not sure why you are not) The Jeep has some more emissions as well.

Another option you might consider if you drive low miles is leasing a new Suby, that is going to be the next thing I look into. Then you get all the new parts, no maintenance. The only problem is the mileage, I drive 20-30k per year. At the end of a lease, you have the option to buy the vehicle, but not sure if that is the best way to go either.

Basically, if you are a 60 day a year skier and live in Denver, get ready to pay out the nose for a vehicle...

[LaramieSkiBum]

drove a 89 Cherokee for last 80 of it's 290k miles. It is still on the road, my dad drives it to work evey day. That said the 4.0L engines really should be using 87 octane in my expereince. I have major pings, even at 7200' elevation w/ anything less with my 99 wrangler. So that should factor in to what they said above - 85 might be ok for the older versions of the 4.0l, but for the newer ones, your looking at 87 octane all the time or your going to knock.

Jeeps = maintence, but you can work on them, they are easy to fix if you have the little know how it takes to cure the typical: Exaust manifold (replaced 1x), starter (replaced 2x), clutch (1x & 210,000 miles).

[shirk]

I have not read the whole thread, just the last page.

If your willing to go out of state to get a used Subie, why not out of country? You should be able to pick up a used Canadian Subie cheaper with the exchange rate. The loonie is at a 5 year high curently, but your still going to get .15 - .18 on the dollar. It's not a big hassel to get Canuck cars into the States, we have stronger safety regulations here. Getting US cars in Canada is a pain. Auto Trader is the best spot to look in Ontario. They do have sites in other provinces, but I don't know if they have the same market share.

[riderspro]

I forgot to talk about the gasoline, I have been using 85 for 90k miles, and things were fine, now I am starting to get a bit of knock, don't know if it is cause of changed formulations for winter petrol, or they are using cheaper pertol cause of the cost, or if cause the Jeep is older, or some combination of all. I am planning to switch to 87 for a while and see what happens.

fyi, just had my serpentine belt changed for $120, and my injectors cleaned for another $120. What would those costs be in an Outback? Same?

[LaramieSkiBum]

^^^^ jeeezus christ man $120 for a fucking belt? That's a $30 part and 30min job. Do you mean timing chain?

Make sure you keep the old one under the seat before your up shit creek with out a belt or pantyhose - it sucks.

[riderspro]

Hey I never claimed to be a mechanic. hence the fact I am concerned with the price that mechanics will charge to do to random things. Like I can change the spark plugs on my Jeep, but I could not on my Eagle, as the Engine had to be lifted. A total bullshit design if you ask me. I was asking if things like that were similar on the Suby (again, because I am interested in having one)

As for the belt, as far as I know, there is only one belt on the Cherokee inline 6, which is called a serpentine belt. It runs the alternator, fan, power steering, etc. Not sure if it controls the timing or not, but it makes sense that it might.

So. How much is a serpentine belt for a Suby? Spark plugs? Headlight? Air filter? How easy is it to parallel park? What would happen in a 5 mile per hour accident? What would happen if little Johnny bounced a baseball of the hood?These are things I consider in buying a car.

[lemon boy]

Ummm and a general note (riderspro, not callin you out but for future reference) one $20 can of BG 44K (available at autoparts stores everywhere) = 150 injector cleaner. Stuff is amazing.

[Blatant]

I'll try to comment. I just had to put a headlight in my outback. 2000 outback, 65k, beat on, main't well and regularly, shit has been flawless. The headlight was a typical 55w H4, $7.00 and 5 minutes, 4 of which were fucking with it b/c it was dark out. Simple

Having owned many jeeps i think subie's are just as easy as yj's to work on, the engines have a ton of room around them and everything is readily accessible. For example the subie's gas filter is under the hood in a simple and unobstructed spot, the wranglers is above the rear drivers wheel on the frame rail...easy switch in a garage or summer (still a pita, but not nearly as easy as a subaru.) Subaru's are known for being very easy to work on. Changing the oil on a sub is as easy as a wrangler, no ramps needed as the design of the oil pan and proximity of the filter is choice.
Plugs are just as simple, no engine hoist (can't imagine owning a vehicle like that) unscrew, screw new ones...again several minute, 6 beer project.

This is a comparison of the subaru 2.5 and a yj 4.0. The xj (cherokee) are not as easy as the yj as the engine is tucked and packed more. Also some of the systems are different, such as the coolant system, which in the xj i think is pretty fucked...imo.

Main't cost for me is way less on the subaru, WAY. I'm fairly mechanical and can get away with doing alot of shit myself...plus i'm cheap and only want to toss $ to mechanics when absolute necessary. (ps i do think you got a bit jacked on the belt) The most expensive one time repair on a subaru, aside from major engine issues would be the suspension, b/c of the design, however you shouldn't have to worry about that for many MANY miles, well over 100k if its driven respectably and not abused. Suspension is over rated anyway.

As for the octane rating, run the lowest shit that doesn't cause a ping. if you have excessive knock that you can't get rid of after experimenting with various octanes, time to move to the knock sensor. Also with subarus, the exhaust system is warranted for 80k, I'm pretty sure, don't qte me not sure what yr that started but a call to the dealer should firm it up. I was paul hoganing mine and bent the shit out of the cc, the dealer hooked it up, no hassel, even though it was clear i fucked it up.

my .04cents

[gravitylover]

I'm actually in the market for a new rig right now too. I currently have a '91 4runner that's rotting out from under me and has 176k on it (and the gas mileage sux). My wife has a '97 Outback limited that's been pretty reliable. We had to do an oil pump so did the timing belt and water pump at the same time. Other than that it's been great. Awesome snow car and rock solid in heavy rain too. It's a pretty nice car on the road, even with the roof box and bikes on the back it holds its own at (well) over the posted speed limit. We're probably gonna end up with an Impreza Sport wagon to save a few thou and get the extra five mpg. My question is - is it as good as the Outback in the snow? Anybody have any experience with the baby 'ru?