Wrangler vs. Outback Sport?

[Z]

huh. I think y'all and a friend I talked to tonight who owned a jeep nearly have me convinced. I may make an offer on the subie tomorrow. I'l probably offer $5500 to start, see how low I can get him to go. Then take the thing to the mechanic. I wish I could find one a couple years newer, but outback sports are really hard to come by around here. Probably cause nobody sells 'em.

Also, any thoughts on the Impreza L Wagon? Same body as the outback sport, but much less clearance.

Subie. do it.

Get some snow tires, my outback sport kills it the snow, only way to get caught is a serious high center. Has more clearance that you would think too, holds its own on springtime access roads.

Get a mechanic to check it out good.

[bad_roo]

Cherokees are so big though.

I think I can hang a headline feature around this.
"American in Jeep Cherokee Is Too Big Shocker"

That would play really well to a British audience.

[bad_roo]

I've owned and driven a CJ as my primary car for the past 12+ years. I love that car and will never sell it.

That said, it's not exactly fun to drive on snowy roads. You have to be on your A-game 100% of the time. The super short wheelbase combined with increased ride height (in comparison to a passenger vehicle) and light weight makes it really easy to swap ends. I'm telling you right now, it will happen. Even the best snow tires won't save your ass. So if you're going to be doing a lot of winter driving, get the Subie.

My Jeep's gotten me safely through some pretty burly storms, but a lot of that has to do with the fact that it's practically an extension of my body at this point. I know every creak, rattle, and wobble in that thing. If a tire's 5 pounds low, I can tell. I'll never sell it, but it's not my daily driver anymore either. Wranglers and CJs weren't built for road driving. They're trail vehicles.

You can get away with driving that in California, but you would certainly be earmarked as having something of the lavender about you for driving one over here. That or a frustrated ex-boyband member.

[Lynx]

i helped a friend find a subie this summer, found him a 99 OBS with 110k miles on and he ended up getting the guy down to $6,000 after his mechanic looked at it and found a couple things needing some fixing.

the ouback sport vs the regular impreza wagon....the OBS is going to have a few more outback-ish details as well as the sport suspension which is nice in my very humble opinion. (and I am on my 3rd outback sport BTW).

Too bad about the automatic transmission you found, maybe you should look longer or harder and try to dig up a manual. Though, trust me, i do KNOW how hard it is to find a Manual OBS. I found my 2nd one in a different state about 9 hours away from where i lived at that time. and the 3rd one, even though i bought new that time was still hard to find a manual.

wranglers....i know a girl who flipped one. she was not the brightest crayon in the box, but i wouldn't go there.

Also, I have rallied my car over some GNARLY roads this summer in Utah. And there was one up American Fork Canyon where i'd be lying if i said i didn't wish i had a jeep or a truck, but my little subie made it just fine, and it RULES in the snow. (but make sure you get good snow tires or the Nokian WRs!)

ramble ramble ramble......i love my outback sport....ramble....ramble....

[lemon boy]

Lemon, I've driven a Cherokee.... more than a few times over the past 4 years. Actually, a lot. GFP owns one.

Then why on earth would you need a second Jeep? If you know you're going somewhere that a suby won't pass take that

[El Chupacabra]

Then why on earth would you need a second Jeep?

"It's a Jeep thing, you wouldn't understand."

[lemon boy]

bah!


655321

[snowfire]

So I've pretty much decided on a subaru. I've got 2: a '99 Impreza L Wagon with 43K miles for $8000, guy said he wouldn't go down much when I tried it. Also the '96 Impreza OUtback sport with 63K miles for $7500. Don't know how much the guy will go down.

Any big advantages of the outback sport over the impreza L? Lynx, what is the outback suspension difference?

[El Chupacabra]

You can get away with driving that in California, but you would certainly be earmarked as having something of the lavender about you for driving one over here. That or a frustrated ex-boyband member.

CJ-7 = lavender vehicle of choice in Jalalabad?

[yentna]

So I've pretty much decided on a subaru. I've got 2: a '99 Impreza L Wagon with 43K miles for $8000, guy said he wouldn't go down much when I tried it. Also the '96 Impreza OUtback sport with 63K miles for $7500. Don't know how much the guy will go down.

Any big advantages of the outback sport over the impreza L? Lynx, what is the outback suspension difference?

Maybe try Ebay. I bought my previous 1996 subie outback there for $3950, but it had over 100K miles on it. Great experience though, and saved money. Ran great until I traded it in at over 200K miles.

As for sport v. wagon, they actually have the same engine and thus the same gas mileage despite the smaller size of the sport.

[snowfire]

Well, the 99 impreza l wagon sold. damn, should have gotten on that sooner. So, it sounds like either the '96 outback sport or start looking at cherokees... I like them fine, but they're just so big. And get crappy gas mileage.

Dude with the '96 won't come down off the $7500 price more than a couple hundred dollars though. Seems people can ask more on subarus because they're so in demand.

[snowfire]

Maybe try Ebay. .

oooh, that sounds sketchy though. Weren't you a bit freaked out at not being able to test drive or take it to a mechanic? Did you have to fly somewhere to pick it up or pay to have it shipped?

[Arty50]

You can get away with driving that in California, but you would certainly be earmarked as having something of the lavender about you for driving one over here. That or a frustrated ex-boyband member.

Hmmmmm...last time I checked, Jeep owners don't drink Orange Mocha Frappuchino and spray gasoline all over the place while dancing to Wham.

[Lynx]

snowfire, where do you live?

[fridge]

1) 3) Back to the Cherokee suggestion: the XJ (boxy one from '84-01), were all available with a full-time transfer case. This is the best of both worlds: basically an AWD setting for slick onroad driving, 4LO for offroad, plus enough ground clearance for two-track campground clearance.

Sorry for the hijack, but can someone explain this to me? Growing up my family has had 92 Cherokee, 93&94 YJ, and now a 99 TJ. All of them only had 4 high & 4 low, and in 4 high we never used them on dry pavement or even go over 50-60 km/hr. I was looking at a 92 Cherokee "limited" (the loaded one with leather) and it had 4 wd "part time", 4wd "full time" and 4 low. I'd never seen this on a jeep before, and the guy was saying to me that 4wd "full time" was basically where power is sent to the front wheels if they are slipping, and can be used on the highway, etc. Is this right? Our jeeps have been very reliable, are there any different reliability issues with these?

[Arty50]

For years, Jeep's fulltime 4wd system was known as QuadraTrac. It was even available with old CJs.

Anyway, someone posted a great link in another thread that explains AWD/4WD/etc.

Here's a summary:

2WD: Only two wheels are turned via engine power.

Part time 4WD: The driver can select between 2WD, 4WD High, and 4WD Low. 4WD can only be engaged on loose/slippery roads. If engaged on dry pavement, binding will occur which can lead to major damage. You see, each tire has a slightly different diameter and the gearing in each axle may be slightly different. Thus the wheels turn at different rates, which causes the transfer case to freeze up since the front and rear driveshafts are not turning at the same speed. Eventually, something's gotta give: driveshaft, u-joint, axle, t-case, etc. On dirt or slippery roads, the tires can spin which releases the binding.

AWD: All four tires are driven by the engine all the time. A limited slip differential in the transfer case prevents binding from occurring. There is no low range.

Full time 4WD: This is the same as AWD, but the transfer case has two gears: High and Low. High is for normal highway speeds. Low trades speed for power and control in off road situations. Just like AWD, it has a center limited slip differential.

In addition there is Full Time 4WD with a center differential lock. This allows the user to lock the limited slip differential in the transfer case for off roading. A limited slip differential is only designed to take so much torque before it slips. This is highly undesirable in an off road setting and the reason why some trucks provide a lock.

There are some systems out there that fit into grey area between these categories, but most cars fall squarely into one of them.

[Spats]

If the Impreza is a lot cheaper you can buy it, drive it a while, and if clearance becomes a problem, have it lifted yourself. Last time I checked the Outback was only an inch or two higher anyway -- not a big difference.

[El Chupacabra]

For years, Jeep's fulltime 4wd system was known as QuadraTrac. It was even available with old CJs.

And Jeep being Jeep, they applied that name to different systems over the years.... so one Quadratrac is not the same as another.

The '92 XJ Cherokee with a fulltime case will have the NP242 transfer case, which is IMHO the most reliable of the transfer cases offered by Jeep that has the full-time feature. It was available in XJs from '87 onwards (earlier ones had a different and weaker fulltime case), standard in all ZJs (mostly 6-cyl, 8-cyl often packaged with Quadratrac NP249 cases), and standard in all WJs (mostly 6-cyl, 8-cyl got either the NP249 or the Quadradrive system or Quadratrac II case).

I have the NP242 case in my '02 WJ. It allows for 2WD (dry road), 4FT (when you think you might need 4HI but definitely do not need it 100% of the way -- this is the setting I like for lightly snow-covered pavement), 4HI (front & rear axle torque distribution locked at 50/50, high range), and 4LO (front & rear axle torque split 50/50, low range). In 4FT, the transfer case has an open differential that allows torque to be split in varying degrees between the front and rear axles. It is not computer controlled or a viscous differential. Some of the other FT cases Jeep used were computer controlled and/or viscous -- difference being (arguably) more responsive to changing conditions, and (definitely) more complex and prone to wear.

AWD cars also vary considerably in how they apportion torque front to rear, and in more complex computer controlled situations, side to side. Examples: mechanical, viscous, computer controlled (at t-case), ABS sensor input, mechanical limited slips in differentials, etc.

Simple answer for fridge: that Cherokee you're looking at has one of the best transfer cases put in Jeeps, ever. It is marginally weaker than the NP231 part-time case, but you will not break the NP242 unless severely abusing it (rock crawling).

[yentna]

oooh, that sounds sketchy though. Weren't you a bit freaked out at not being able to test drive or take it to a mechanic? Did you have to fly somewhere to pick it up or pay to have it shipped?

It actually wasn't bad. The big thing was the seller's rating - hundreds of transactions and all good feedback. For a used auto guy, that's pretty good. (And the reviewers were solid Ebayers a lot of the time, so I didn't think he was building up his own rating in any way.) I ran a carfax on it, talked to a mechanic friend about it and he told me worst case scenarios, and then yes I flew out and drove it back. Shipping would have been about $1000 if I remember correctly; the gas and airline tickets were only about $400.

Turned into one of the best road trips I've ever had, a friend flew out with me and we drove from NYC to SLC in two days, stopping in Chicago to visit his family. Saw Phantom of the Opera on Broadway, visited a friend I hadn't seen in years, sweet. And the only issue that came up was that the O2 sensor went out the last couple hundred miles, so it chugged back, but it was a $100 fix. Another friend bought a BMW on Ebay a few months ago, for about $4000 less than Blue Book, and has had not a problem either.

[Blatant]

I say subaru. I have plenty of experience with both heeps and sub's. For foul weather, the subaru is the best car made for the money. It'll treat you much better than the jeep. However, They are two completely different beasts. Sub's will slap a jeep and jeeps will slap a subie, it's all in the context of the slap. I can say that you should be cognizant and astutely aware of the Subie's engine. I'm not sure if that's the 2.2 or the phase I 2.5. I would however be bold enough to say that the subie will run for ever.

I'm a shade tree mechanic thanks to my low budget and plethora of jeeps I've had over the years...and they are zero fun in super cold weather. My 242's have never leaked though (thankfully) but i've jacked plenty of pinon gaskets.

Ask yourself how much driving you're going to do and how often and far. Sounds to me like the subie would fit your applications better.
my .02cents

[jump]

Subaru! Subaru! Subaru!

[snowfire]

I live in Denver.


I hate, hate HATE car buying. I made an offer on the '96 outback sport with 63 K miles, lowest I could get him was $7250. Tack on the dealer fee of $300, the dealer state tax of 2.9% and the denver tax of 8.6% and I've got myself an $8500 car. Which I do not really want to pay for a '96. Fucking A. So now I have to decide whether to suck it up and pay all that or go back to the drawing board and try to find something else. I'm starting to really consider a cherokee.

FUCK!!

[lemon boy]

tell him to take his dealer fee and eat your ass - If its a used dealer no way have you even yet begun to play hard enough.

[Blatant]

if you're paying cash you're more likely to get the deal you want. If you're financing through a Credit union for example, and are approved, you're more likely to get the deal you want. If you're going thru a dealer you're more likely to get what you want, but more likely to get fleeced in the process.

my experience, if you have the money angle covered and it does not involve the dealership, you can concentrate on bottom line price...if you name a price and then produce a wad, the chances for you greatly improve.

[snowfire]

if you're paying cash you're more likely to get the deal you want. If you're financing through a Credit union for example, and are approved, you're more likely to get the deal you want. If you're going thru a dealer you're more likely to get what you want, but more likely to get fleeced in the process.

my experience, if you have the money angle covered and it does not involve the dealership, you can concentrate on bottom line price...if you name a price and then produce a wad, the chances for you greatly improve.

I told him I could pay cash, but he wouldn't budge more than $250, then proceeds to charge me a $300 dealer fee. Mother fucker. I would end up paying almost 20% of the value of the car in fees after all the sales tax and fees. I really had convinced myself I wanted an outback sport, and there just aren't any out there for a decent price.