Wrangler vs. Outback Sport?

[snowfire]

This is my decision. What say the maggot gurus?

Also: newer vehicle with higher mileage or older vehicle with lower mileage?

[yentna]

Performance = Outback sport.

Gear space = wrangler.

I say go with the outback sport.

But then, I own one so I'm biased.


Edit: if it's a newer subie w/high mileage, go for it. They drive forever. Traded in my old one w/205K in great shape still.

[Godwin-Austin]

Unless you head off-road to wheel it, or find yourself off pavement alot, definetly go with the Outback: it will be much better in the snow and will get better gas mileage and is more people friendly.

[El Chupacabra]

Advantages:

MPG: Subaru
Offroad/ rough road: Jeep
Snow car: Subaru
Interior space: Subaru (wagon)
Simple reliability (put gas & oil in, that's about it): Subaru
Tough reliability (pound on it and it won't break; little things will require more maintenance): Jeep

If you want to take the top off (convertible) for summer, you have that option with the Jeep Wrangler/ CJ type vehicles. No such luck on the Subaru, but sunroofs are available.

I think a Subaru is a better ski car, if that's strictly what you want it for. More comfortable, drives like a car (better for longer road trips), AWD traction, most have roof racks = easy to mount a ski/ gear box on the roof.

However, I like Jeeps, and have two. Sturdy, simple, I can fix anything on them. I end up driving a lot on rough dirt roads & 4WD trails for camping, and I don't think a Subaru would last very long under those conditions: Jeep = solid axles front & rear; Subaru = independent suspension, and car suspension at that. For a ski car, a Jeep is overkill, and an AWD system is more user-friendly vs. a part-time 4WD system, for on-pavement snow usage.

Another popular choice is Toyota pickups. Add a camper shell to an extended cab (or crew cab) truck and you have ample gear storage. Not as good on mileage or interior passenger space as a Subaru, but much better offroad. 4WD system is part time only.

[snowfire]

thanks guys. I would do quite a bit of off-roading if I got hte jeep, lots of good hikes/climbs I like to do are only accessible by 4wd road. But that's not the main consideration either.

Out of the 2 vehicles I'm debating now, the Subaru is a 1996 with 63k miles. The jeep is a '99 with 91k miles. Both are going for $7500. Tonight I"m going to look at a 97 jeep with 96k miles, going for about $7000.

decisions, decisions...

[lemon boy]

snowfire, this is just me but given the choices you've listed I would go with the vehicle that is 1/2 way between either: Cherokee

[snowfire]

snowfire, this is just me but given the choices you've listed I would go with the vehicle that is 1/2 way between either: Cherokee

Cherokees are so big though. I really would like something smaller- that's why I'm looking at outback sports instead of the full size wagon, and wranglers instead of cherokees. Also hoping for somethign with a little better gas mileage than the cherokee, although don't know if a Wrangler would really be that much better.

El Chucapa... etc, why do you say that subarus are better in the snow than wranglers? just curious, because this would be a big part of my decision. Wranglers have better clearance, so would not high center, eh? Are you just thinking traction or other things too? The wranglers I'm looking at have bigger tires than stock, also.

Also, the subaru is an automatic and the jeep is a manual. I know beggars can't be choosers, but I do prefer a manual. This sucks, I keep leaning towards one and then the other.

[lemon boy]

SF- Have you driven a Cherokee? I don't think I'd go so far as to say they are a lot bigger than a suby, even a small outback sport. I could even see the Jeep having a tighter turn radius than a suby.

A wrangler is going to get the same or worse mileage than a cherokee* same engine (4.0 = what you want) same bricklike aerodynamics

An awd car will drive and handle much better than a tall SUV type deal, plus the very short wheelbase on a wrangler can have them swapping ends in about 2/10s of a second. Plus, cars perform every emergency manuever better than SUVs.

*want to make sure that we're both talking a regular cherokee not a grand cherokee/wagoneer

[El Chupacabra]

Cherokees are so big though. I really would like something smaller- that's why I'm looking at outback sports instead of the full size wagon, and wranglers instead of cherokees. Also hoping for somethign with a little better gas mileage than the cherokee, although don't know if a Wrangler would really be that much better.

El Chucapa... etc, why do you say that subarus are better in the snow than wranglers? just curious, because this would be a big part of my decision. Wranglers have better clearance, so would not high center, eh? Are you just thinking traction or other things too? The wranglers I'm looking at have bigger tires than stock, also.

Also, the subaru is an automatic and the jeep is a manual. I know beggars can't be choosers, but I do prefer a manual. This sucks, I keep leaning towards one and then the other.

1) I second the recommendation on the XJ Cherokee (not the ZJ/WJ Grand, though those are nice too, they're just larger). They're really not that big, very reliable, and cheaper than Wranglers from the same year.

2) Setting aside the 4x4s vs. AWD car passenger comfort/ daily driveability issues, Subarus or any other full-time AWD vehicle are only "better" in the sense that there's no room for driver error, you're always in AWD mode. So if you hit a slick patch on the road, not to worry. You also don't have to shift back-n-forth between 4WD high range and 2WD, if going between dry patches of pavement and snowy patches. Also, a 4x4 like a Jeep is typically RWD when in 2WD mode.

Any 4x4 with a 2-speed (high and low range) transfer case is better than AWD for offroad, because of gearing and (usually) higher ground clearance that comes with a real 4x4. For onroad use, though, the roads are generally plowed enough so that your real concern is traction, not ground clearance.

3) Back to the Cherokee suggestion: the XJ (boxy one from '84-01), ZJ ('93-98 Grand) and WJ ('99-04 Grand) were all available with a full-time transfer case. This is the best of both worlds: basically an AWD setting for slick onroad driving, 4LO for offroad, plus enough ground clearance for two-track campground clearance.

[El Chupacabra]

A wrangler is going to get the same or worse mileage than a cherokee* same engine (4.0 = what you want) same bricklike aerodynamics

Wranglers get worse mileage than XJ Cherokees; considerably worse aerodynamics. I used to get 18-19 in my lifted XJ, my sister reports 20-21 in a stock XJ, and I get 15-16 in my Wrangler (Rubicon version = lower gears = worse mileage, but regular Wranglers don't get much better, like 16-17).

[lemon boy]

yeah, I just didn't want to talk it up like it would get "good" mileage (although, fucking suby's are pathetic mileage wise for what you get)

edit - Also, a cherokee is way hotter than an outback sport for a lady to drive.

[CUBUCK]

Agree with the cherokee. Owned one until I moved to NY and now really miss it. Great, simple car. Easy and relatively cheap to maintain and they will run forever. I know a few people that have over 200k miles on their cherokees. Plenty of room for gear and I can second that the turning radius is awsome for a car of its size.

[The Reverend Floater]

SF--A Wrangler with 90K isn't going to last you very long without some serious money being poured into it. Subies last a helluva lot longer. Wranglers are known money pits.

[Godwin-Austin]

Out of the 2 vehicles I'm debating now, the Subaru is a 1996 with 63k miles. The jeep is a '99 with 91k miles. Both are going for $7500. Tonight I"m going to look at a 97 jeep with 96k miles, going for about $7000.

decisions, decisions...

ok snowfire - well, if the 96K has had the oil changed every 2-3000 miles and the 63K subaru had an owner who almost never changed the oil, or plugs etc the mileage wont make a difference - I would rather have a 125k Car that I know was well taken care of then a 63K car that was neglected - or that the past was shady.

Most important thing you do, whatever you decide, is to take a buddy along who knows his stuff about cars - have him (ahem/her) pull the plugs, check the oil, check seals etc etc. ...

[LaramieSkiBum]

on that 99' with 96k miles:
check the exaust header, they are always going on the 4.0l. It might have been replaced already. Wheel bearings are probably due on the front also. They are not servicable, so thats ~$150 per side, if they need it - check them by lifting the wheel and trying to jerk it back and forth. Get underneith the jeep and see what kind of frame/body damage it has. Oil pan is a really good indicator as to how hard it has been wheeled. It pretty much will have a dent it in if it has been off road at all, as well as the diff covers and control arm mounts. Also check the pinon seal, see if some diff fluid has leaked out onto the yoke.

I have a 99' TJ 5 speed (52kmiles, 37k in the last 19months) and love it in the summer. I'm in the desert alot and it's perfect. It's my daily driver and I bought it 19months ago.

For skiing, winter interstate driving, and general traveling - you basically buying yourself a really expensive coffin. You may want the short wheel base for wheeling, but it will kill you in a heart beat on the road. Icy bridges, underpasses, any sort of ice at all and that short wheel base will try and come around so quick that you better be going less than 40mph or your flipped.

I'm shooting for a subaru now that I've almost got the jeep payed off. In retrospect, I really really wish i would have bought a subi or front wheel drive car first and the jeep second.

I drove an XJ for 4 years before I bought my TJ. That would be the perfect mix between the fun of a TJ and the "stability" of an XJ. You will get better gas mileage, it has a fairly short wheel base, you can get a 5 speed if you really look hard, and you won't die as quickly in one. Both XJ and TJ really suck balls in snow, but I'll take an XJ over a TJ for everything but summer wheeling. Even in the summer I trusted the XJ more on steep climbs, the wheel base is perfect for those too.

[skiguide]

For skiing, winter interstate driving, and general traveling - you basically buying yourself a really expensive coffin. You may want the short wheel base for wheeling, but it will kill you in a heart beat on the road. Icy bridges, underpasses, any sort of ice at all and that short wheel base will try and come around so quick that you better be going less than 40mph or your flipped.

so true. a girl i went to high school with died in her white jeep one winter. went off the highway, and was missing for days before they found her dead in it upside down.

subie sounds like the smarter bet - and the outbacks do have some decent ground clearance.

[LaramieSkiBum]

outbacks have as much ground clearance as a TJ, not a rubi TJ, but stock TJ with 30" tire package. Granted they do not have the short wheelbase, but I'm telling you get the subi so you can travel and not die. When your more $ stable get a jeep....

[CUBUCK]

outbacks have as much ground clearance as a TJ, not a rubi TJ, but stock TJ with 30" tire package. Granted they do not have the short wheelbase, but I'm telling you get the subi so you can travel and not die. When your more $ stable get a jeep....

I have driven jeeps for 8 years and haven't died yet.

[Stone-Free]

SF--A Wrangler with 90K isn't going to last you very long without some serious money being poured into it. Subies last a helluva lot longer. Wranglers are known money pits.

My neighbors Wangler looks like the Exxon Valdez in his driveway. He's put 2 rear main seals in it and oil pan gasket (sp?) and it still leaks. He never changes his oil, he just adds to it. Buy the Subaru.

[snowfire]

It's not the jeep's fault he never changes the freakin' oil!

Lemon, I've driven a Cherokee.... more than a few times over the past 4 years. Actually, a lot. GFP owns one.

So, the general consensus is Subaru? But it's so old! I guess to tell you the truth I'm a little wary of a '96 that only has 63k miles. Is that a concern or not?

[Arty50]

I've owned and driven a CJ as my primary car for the past 12+ years. I love that car and will never sell it.

That said, it's not exactly fun to drive on snowy roads. You have to be on your A-game 100% of the time. The super short wheelbase combined with increased ride height (in comparison to a passenger vehicle) and light weight makes it really easy to swap ends. I'm telling you right now, it will happen. Even the best snow tires won't save your ass. So if you're going to be doing a lot of winter driving, get the Subie.

My Jeep's gotten me safely through some pretty burly storms, but a lot of that has to do with the fact that it's practically an extension of my body at this point. I know every creak, rattle, and wobble in that thing. If a tire's 5 pounds low, I can tell. I'll never sell it, but it's not my daily driver anymore either. Wranglers and CJs weren't built for road driving. They're trail vehicles.

[Godwin-Austin]

It's not the jeep's fault he never changes the freakin' oil!

Lemon, I've driven a Cherokee.... more than a few times over the past 4 years. Actually, a lot. GFP owns one.

So, the general consensus is Subaru? But it's so old! I guess to tell you the truth I'm a little wary of a '96 that only has 63k miles. Is that a concern or not?

I dont see why it would be a concern really - I bought my 97 Tacoma with
57k a year and a half ago....buy the Subaru; they are great cars for da snow.

[LaramieSkiBum]

My neighbors Wangler looks like the Exxon Valdez in his driveway. He's put 2 rear main seals in it and oil pan gasket (sp?) and it still leaks. He never changes his oil, he just adds to it. Buy the Subaru.

no matter how well you take care of the 242ci or 258ci, they will leak oil...Your just going to have to get used to it....it's part of the territory...mine leaks, my neighbors leaks, my parents Eagle leaks, my cherokee leaks (yes it is still on the road - 298,000 miles on no rebuild and 20kmiles/ oil change)....all of the rear mains or pan gaskets....but they run like champs....

[rightcoast]

I own both (1997 TJ and 1997 Suby Outback)
For a winter vehicle, get the Suby.
As everyine else said, the short wheelbase, even in 4wd in the Wrangler, it wants to spin like a top. As far as clearance, ive gone through some really deep unplowed roads in Vt with my Suby no problem. Put good snows on it and rally.

[snowfire]

huh. I think y'all and a friend I talked to tonight who owned a jeep nearly have me convinced. I may make an offer on the subie tomorrow. I'l probably offer $5500 to start, see how low I can get him to go. Then take the thing to the mechanic. I wish I could find one a couple years newer, but outback sports are really hard to come by around here. Probably cause nobody sells 'em.

Also, any thoughts on the Impreza L Wagon? Same body as the outback sport, but much less clearance.