How to Stay at the Hill

[jgarr]

Meanwhile, maybe I should try to find a girlfriend that lives in Breckenridge or something.

[lemon boy]

yeah. let us know how that works out.

[Captain Gus]

CruiseAmerica always has some very good winter/one-way specials and SLC is usually one of the pick-up spots.

Takes a bit of planning (and hoping that Jet Blue flies into your home town), but you can get a large discount on renting a family sized RV.

Did this last year. Couple of buddies and I flew into SLC, picked up the RV and hit all the resorts we wanted, and then proceeded to drive to AZ and return the RV. Returning the RV was a pain in the arse at the end of the trip, but it was a fun time.

http://www.cruiseamerica.com/hot_ren...ls/default.asp

Edit - didn't read the thread closely enough to realise this was a wash/rinse repeat type of dealio.

[tibaher]

We have been monitoring the verde-water far from real estate scene for more than a couple years now and determined that it is likely one of the best places to invest in at any ski area in the state. It is a lot to plunk down, but there aren't going to be any more places built there due to forest service land and MRNP constraints. There simply is no more vacant land for sale there, and the demand wil indeed, continue to rise. Add that up with the money set to be spent on the mountain over the next 10 years, and your appreciation over that next ten years is (best guess) going to exceed the 13% we've seen over the last 5...

you are the math wiz but I say that spells better investment than 5K a year on hotels. If you put your 40 down, finance the 210, your payments would be about... well yeah, more than 5K a year...

you can still get a condo or cabin in Glacier for under a hundy

[mr_gyptian]

Meanwhile, maybe I should try to find a girlfriend that lives in Breckenridge or something.

or win Powerball.


but back to Buster's dilemma...LB's season pass equation is just about right. however, there are other factors involved. I grew up in a family of four and our weekend type vacations consisted of snow skiing and water skiing(floating camper, 25' cuddy cabin). My dad and I loved everything about both. My mother and sister were of a different mind set. the skiing vacation/weekend is virtually labor free. Mom packs clothes/gear once, or supervises the process. then when you get there you unpack. Cook or go out to eat, you use conventional processes to accomplish both. Wake up in morning, ski. come home nap until dinner, watch movie. go to bed. very simple. when leaving, re pack. check out, drive home.

No here is boating/camping. you/wife packs up RV. if you work together it can be simpler, but still a pain in the ass. hitch up to said camper and then head to the resort. sometimes you make it without encountering weather. you set up camp and you're good to go. or so you thought. but then the reality sets in that you've got to keep propane running to keep the fam warm. utilize unconventional tools, space etc. to feed the Delta and Sigma. rinse, repeat for the duration. Remember, this is if the weather is cooperating and the equipment is running at top speed.

now run through your mind how the above scenario plays out if the shit hits the fan.

the real difference between the camper and the hotels is the difference between a working vacation and a true vacation.

I, myself, don't bust my ass six days a week so I can fuck around with the flux capacator on the Winny that decided to crap out 40 miles from Tahoe.

[PNWbrit]

We have been monitoring the verde-water far from real estate scene for more than a couple years now and determined that it is likely one of the best places to invest in at any ski area in the state. It is a lot to plunk down, but there aren't going to be any more places built there due to forest service land and MRNP constraints. There simply is no more vacant land for sale there, and the demand wil indeed, continue to rise. Add that up with the money set to be spent on the mountain over the next 10 years, and your appreciation over that next ten years is (best guess) going to exceed the 13% we've seen over the last 5...

you are the math wiz but I say that spells better investment than 5K a year on hotels. If you put your 40 down, finance the 210, your payments would be about... well yeah, more than 5K a year...

you can still get a condo or cabin in Glacier for under a hundy

My place on 10 acres in Verde-water (like it!) just appraised for 160% of what we paid for it for in December.

[FigureEleven]

Good call on Verde-water... if I were still in WA, I would be busting my ass to get in on something up there.

[release]

That's the analysis I run across. It actually seems cheaper to just blow 4-5 k/year on a hotel room.

You can do the math numerous ways, but the speculation factor for owning a place is impossible to predict. Owning a place just does not make much sense financially, but if you can afford the lifestyle then it is hard to beat.

The best answer to your original question is to simply find a friend who owns a place and is willing to let you stay in it for practically nothing. It is hard to get any cheaper than free.

[PNWbrit]

You can do the math numerous ways, but the speculation factor for owning a place is impossible to predict. Owning a place just does not make much sense financially, but if you can afford the lifestyle then it is hard to beat.

The best answer to your original question is to simply find a friend who owns a place and is willing to let you stay in it for practically nothing. It is hard to get any cheaper than free.

Should we be paying you for this fantastic investment advice?

The maths worked pretty fucking fine for me any way you do it.

[release]

Should we be paying you for this fantastic investment advice?

...Sure.

[PNWbrit]

...Sure.

Based on your performance so far I'd be better off asking my dog

[iceman]

Based on your performance so far I'd be better off asking my dog

Dude, he gave a perfectly reasonable bit of general advice. Just because you have made (theoretical) money on your property does not mean that he is wrong, and your arrogant and tactless responses simply prove that a little money can't buy class.

[PNWbrit]

Dude, he gave a perfectly reasonable bit of general advice. Just because you have made (theoretical) money on your property does not mean that he is wrong, and your arrogant and tactless responses simply prove that a little money can't buy class.

Flat out advising against investing in and using property at a growing ski area doesn't seem that reasonable or general.

That money is already busy making me more... When exactly does it stop becoming theoretical?

[Kellie]

Tough question . . .

All I know is that we were a motorhome family. We camped in Baker's parking lot every weekend from January-April from the time I was 4 to 10. The mountain was home, we knew all the other camping families, we went sledding after skiing, we came in for hot chocolate on cold days, and we had good family time. I wouldn't trade any of that for the world. Yeah, my parents worked their butts off for that experience, but "families that work together, play together" as I heard all the time. And the motorhome got some pretty good use in the summer too, with long road trips to AK and Canada (playing dolls contentedly in the back bunkbeds instead of complaining about driving) and other family vacations. Yeah, they're a lot of work and not an investment that's going to appreciate, but they do provide an experience that can be, in many ways, invaluable.

Just my $0.02, and a fun reflection

[Karl Stall]

having skied with Ms. Kellie, I'd say if you want your kids to grow up to be complete f'n rippers, go motor homage, dude - great referral.

[Toby]

Count yourself lucky with your dilemma, Buster. If I want to take my family of 5 skiing it'll cost us about $15,000. Airfares alone are at least $8000. Then, to make the airfares worthwhile we'd have to stay at least 3-4weeks.

[DBdude]

That money is already busy making me more... When exactly does it stop becoming theoretical?

when you sell

[iceman]

Flat out advising against investing in and using property at a growing ski area doesn't seem that reasonable or general.

He did not do that. He said that you can't count on making money on it and he is totally correct. Actually he said it's "impossible to predict" and how you can misconstrue this is more or less "impossible to comprehend".

There is a bubble and there will be a pinprick, the questions are when and how much air gets out when it does, how long it takes for the market to recover, and whether you are able to ride out a drop in values that MAY (cf. the "impossible to predict" quote above) last anywhere from days to decades.

Were you in this country in 1989?

That money is already busy making me more... When exactly does it stop becoming theoretical?

See DB's reply above. What you have is an EXPECTATION of profit, not profit itself. There is a huge difference and you don't seem to grasp it at all.

Cheerio and all that rot.

[snowsprite]

I fantasize about getting a piece of land by said home mountain and putting up a yurt. Prolly never happen, but it's nice to think about on days like this in cube land.

The dude who sold me my new boots this past weekend at Killington lives full time in a teepee in Pittsfield, VT on like 72 acres of land. He says he lives there in the winter and has done this for 3 years. The neighbors always go "Hey! You haven't frozen to death yet!" when they see him. We're going to go check out the tee pee next time we are in town.

Sprite

[PNWbrit]

There is a bubble and there will be a pinprick, the questions are when and how much air gets out when it does, how long it takes for the market to recover, and whether you are able to ride out a drop in values that MAY (cf. the "impossible to predict" quote above) last anywhere from days to decades.

Great thanks for your help - I'd never have figured that out unless you'd come along

[mr_gyptian]

Tough question . . .

All I know is that we were a motorhome family. We camped in Baker's parking lot every weekend from January-April from the time I was 4 to 10. The mountain was home, we knew all the other camping families, we went sledding after skiing, we came in for hot chocolate on cold days, and we had good family time. I wouldn't trade any of that for the world. Yeah, my parents worked their butts off for that experience, but "families that work together, play together" as I heard all the time. And the motorhome got some pretty good use in the summer too, with long road trips to AK and Canada (playing dolls contentedly in the back bunkbeds instead of complaining about driving) and other family vacations. Yeah, they're a lot of work and not an investment that's going to appreciate, but they do provide an experience that can be, in many ways, invaluable.

Just my $0.02, and a fun reflection

I loved our boating trips too. I was just letting Buster know that the camping entails vastly more work than the hotel/condo route.

[iceman]

Great thanks for your help - I'd never have figured that out unless you'd come along

Then why are you slagging release for it? If you're gonna bitch someone out it's generally considered good form to have a reason, or at least a pretense of one.

[Buster Highmen]

Gentlemen, gentlemen. Please....
First, the original intent was to get a strictly financial comparison of getting a camper/RV as opposed to simply investing the same amount and blowing it on a hotel.

So far, the explicit analysis hasn't been done.

But, as I'm far more guilty of than anyone else here, a question becomes an opportunity to foist and parry one's own agenda, however skewed that agenda is relative to the original question. And quibble over logical, religious and rectal minutia.

The issue of owning ski related property is interesting in it's own right. While I understand the motivations for buying ski area property (which I have done elsewhere), all the pro babble istic analyses do reside on unknown future parameters. But as far as I'm concerned, you can only really own property for the love of it, the romance, the idiotic grins of laying in your own bed in the mountains. I suspect that this is a weighty draw for many of us. But the investment analysis is too wobbly for me.

Not that I would tread on your rights to squabble and abuse each other. Isn't that what the internet is for?

Now as far as Groinwater, it's attractive in many ways. But right now, I don't want to own a place there unless I can get a ___really___ good deal. Having owned a Cascappalachian shack complete with all the horror stories that formed parts of my agenda, that's not something I really want to do right now with the current default situation.

So PNWBrit has a point. It probably is a good investment. But nothing is certain.
And release has a point, nothing is for certain. But you don't freeload on friends with a 2 year old.

So I'm back to the quandry of the purely financial question. Since it's too hard to answer, I may just have to go with the romance and the love: a camper.

[lemon boy]

bonus of a camper over the hotel: you can step out side your door and let off a few shotgun rounds. Most hotels frown on this for reasons unknown.

teaching your kids to shoot in the p-lot at apental: a memory they will treasure forever.

[Buster Highmen]

Agendas, agendas, agendas. Should I shoot the wackjob with the ugly hairdo or the phlegmatic Jesus mullah with the intractible roof?