MSP and TGR going the way of Warren Miller?

[ill-advised strategy]

CBERG, I respect your opinion above. What I take extreme umbridge too is you watching MSP's movie this year, being disapointed by it - and then lumping TGR into that disapointment. Have you Seen THIS YEARS tgr movie? If so I apoligize. But from your first post it doesn't really seem like you have.

Give it a spin - then you have the right to bitch about what direction we are headed.

for the record: tangerine dream made my pants tight

I still echo what GI JONG said about inbounds, even non-pow footage....I mean, it's awesome to compare what the big dogs do with terrain that you can see in person...that way you're thinking holy shit I was there and I wouldn't even touch that line...it's just something I haven't seen much of lately.

[joshbu]

shaders.

bzzzzt. Obviously you haven't adjusted to the new position yet.

The correct answer is "rdp"

[Booger]

Please don't assume that TGR must suck this year because you went and watched MSP's new movie and didn't like it.

This year we have a movie that is different that look at this athletes segment, now on to the next.

People in the industry seem to be really digging our latest endeavor.

The next question is how much money do you fools all think we have to make these movies??? "little" snowboard movies have so much money behind them it is ridiculous. A good friend of ours just finished "The Community Project" He had more budget for his intro song than we did for our entire soundtrack.

Bottom line is this. If you want to bag on TGR's latest - fine. Do it. But at least WATCH it first.

Im old and beat up and have been into MSP and TGR since the Tribe and was handed my free copy of the Continnum at an industy dig but.......

MSP and TGR are still the best out there, at least from a skiers perspective, and I still buy these movies every year...even though I dont like certain parts of their movies (like for example calling a movie "Soul Purpose"- if something is "soulful" its not going to be used as a marketing title to make $- but Im being nitpicky of course ...and although I dig seeing pure BASE jumping Im also kinda tired of seeing the hyped up ski basing- show more pure BASE or go film film the godamn Flyboyz and show some freeflying- I gaurantee skiers/ snowboarders would be entertained by it )

And like I read somewhere else, yea MSP films may be just turning into individual skiers resumes but....like I care...still the best skiing shots available...and pretty funny.

And the girl is right, of course skateboarding (mainstream) and surfing (mainstream, fashionable, corporatized sport now) films are going to be creative being that they are fashionable sports that have been exploding for the past 10 years with millions of dollars supporting them and thus way more room for creativity/ error in the film area.....unlike skiing, thank god.

Every industry goes thru a cycle (Dick Barrymore movies were popular for 10-15 years, Greg Stump was popular for 10-15 years, etc.) and this is no different, although I hardly see TGR and MSP dropping off the map any time soon, as at least Im going to keep paying for them and watch tem a few times a year.

[Buster Highmen]

bzzzzt. Obviously you haven't adjusted to the new position yet.

The correct answer is "rdp"

I didn't know you could edit images on the fly with rdp. Wonders never cease.

[lax]

Every movie every year is just a bunch of sequences of skiers doing "look at me! Im ripping!!" skiing. We've all seen a million d-spins in the park, and a million shots of some guy skiing what looks to be the same line in Alaska.....:yawn:

im yet to see this years msp or tgr, but im loving how jp/poor boyz relied heavily on helmetcam for half his segment...cliff lines, avi, from helmet cam perspective are rediculous

experimentation is the name of the game


@freshie247-i said "comparative talent", i meant the loss of seth and tanner and cr

[PacRimRider1]

Can I vote? And if so, can we add a "MSP is turning into Warren Miller, but TGR is not" category?

I'd change my vote to this one but alas, vote changing is not allowed (I voted no.) I'm not really sure why the author of this poll chose to include TGR in the title at all, as I do not find the two simular in any way other than having top athletes in their films.

In fact, Cberg, you have made us all stupider by posting this. I award you no points, and my God have mercy on your soul.

[cberg]

I'd change my vote to this one but alas, vote changing is not allowed (I voted no.) I'm not really sure why the author of this poll chose to include TGR in the title at all, as I do not find the two simular in any way other than having top athletes in their films.

In fact, Cberg, you have made us all stupider by posting this. I award you no points, and my God have mercy on your soul.

I included TGR because I thought that last year's release seemed Warren Millerish too. I didn't hate it, but I liked some of the past TGR films a lot better. Harvest for example. Kreitler and Jones killing it. One of the best segments ever. High Life too, with Sage killing it. And I liked some of the other ski and snowboard movies from the same year better too. If the new flick is different and better, then shame on me.

[CS]

If the new flick is different and better, then shame on me.

Yeah, a lot better than last year.

[Squirrel99]

I checked out the new MSP flick "The Hit List" in Squaw over the weekend. Fun show and fun night for sure. And some of the athletes were killing it. But all things considered, the movie was pretty week. Formulaic, mediocre music, made for the mainstream. In a word, Warren Millerish. After seeing some of the new snowboard movies - Absinthe's "Futureproof" in particular - I can't help but feel embarrassed for the ski industry. Our so called cool guys can't even make something cool. Anyone agree?

Haven't seen the TGR film- still got a few more weeks till it makes it to Seattle, but as for MSP- I definitely thought it to be a downer compared to many of their past movies. There were certainly a few segments that stood out above the others, but the movie overall just didn't "flow"

I've always enjoyed their music selection- but aside from Sweatshop Union at the end of the film, I found the music to be "lacking" inspiration, adrenaline, movitation, groove- whatever you want to call it. Mainly I think the observations from those of us at the Seattle premiere were that it seemed like the movie was 'cut and pasted' this year. although the darren rhalves segment was funny- it really lent it down that warren miller road. and to only show two minutes of tahoe's incredible winter give me the pow- not gs racing down the fjords. And I wouldn't mind if they incorporated a bit more snowboarding- the sunset shots at whistler were prime! a little diversification is a good thing.

[Kya]

This is a great thread.
I think most core skiers are ready for the next progression of movies......

IMO goes something like this: Just regular dudes, hunting for pow (on skins not helis) and doing it with good partners.

I like the idea of the grassroots "little guy" movie companies, who also have jobs or classes to go to. Cold Smoke Awards (www.coldsmokeawards.com) is doing just that. A place where regular dudes can share, not SHOW OFF, the kick ass season they just had.

Of course we are all suckers for anything skiing related in the fall, and that is probably why the same style of films continue to succeed.

I guess it is really our choice anyway. How many of us have baught a DVD from the big dogs? and how many from the unknown little guy? We have power in our dollar, just like power in our vote. V.O.R.D. vote out republicans and democrats

Anyway, if I were to make a ski movie, it would be about me traveling the country, skiing for fun, getting a ton of face shots, and running for president......All at the same time

[Plakespear]

I think one problem may be the abilities of the editors. They're usually homespun, inhouse facilities for these flicks. You don't get the type of motion graphic guys you see doing work for Fuel promos, indie music videos etc...

J- there are generally two types of editors. There are the guys who focus on storytelling, and the guys who focus on graphics and effects. Usually the guys with storytelluing skills don't give a damn about flashy effects, and usually the effects gurus don't know anything about story.

Also- most of that stuff isn't created by just one editor. There's usually an editor, AfterEffects guy, and one or more graphic designers working on a project. Plus, those facilities cost money. Check what some of your clients pay to use a Discreet Fire system for a day. And that's for a 30 second spot. Than ask Frozen how that would compare to the budget for a TGR film.

[Bum Z]

Please don't assume that TGR must suck this year because you went and watched MSP's new movie and didn't like it.

This year we have a movie that is different that look at this athletes segment, now on to the next.

People in the industry seem to be really digging our latest endeavor.

The next question is how much money do you fools all think we have to make these movies??? "little" snowboard movies have so much money behind them it is ridiculous. A good friend of ours just finished "The Community Project" He had more budget for his intro song than we did for our entire soundtrack.

Bottom line is this. If you want to bag on TGR's latest - fine. Do it. But at least WATCH it first.

I agree. I've now seen it several times, and it addresses much of what people are compaining about. It's flows much better, gives you a sense of the local crews, and is somewhat closer to Immersion than most of the recent films. Most, if not all, of the people I've talked with at the shows have really liked it. Very little in it that I didn't like, and I mean very little.

[Bum Z]

I included TGR because I thought that last year's release seemed Warren Millerish too. I didn't hate it, but I liked some of the past TGR films a lot better. Harvest for example. Kreitler and Jones killing it. One of the best segments ever. High Life too, with Sage killing it. And I liked some of the other ski and snowboard movies from the same year better too. If the new flick is different and better, then shame on me.

Not to pile on too much, but yes, this years film is different and better. Soul Purpose was Warren Miller-ish: blantant corporate shots and segments, and didn't flow as a movie. This year is different, and much better, IMO.

[Bum Z]

This is a great thread.
IMO goes something like this: Just regular dudes, hunting for pow (on skins not helis) and doing it with good partners.

Until you realize that watching regular dudes ski is boring, and that skinning for pow = a very short movie since you won't get many high quality shots. Snowmobile access is different, as we've seen lately that plenty of filming is going on via sled accessed terrain.

[addict]

I agree that some footage of pros killing it inbounds is good. Saw Seth last year ripping up WH20 on both hardpack bumps and a powder day and it was sugary sweet to watch. But then watching that same guy ripping AK and throwing down big backflips is also awesome. Whoever said that before, I agree that Yearbook didn't make more of an impression on me than High Society (except the Abma's insane rock line and the Sarah Burke nurse part). Haven't seen this years outings of TGR or MSP. Some of the lower budget trailers look awesome though, can't wait to see Echo and TBCrisis. Not sure who it was, but the helmet cam pointing backwards footage looks rad off one of this years films. Hadn't seen that before. I don't mind TGR and MSP films at all, but I don't regularly buy them and usually skip the jibage. I don't think they're bad though, but definitely can get formulaic AT TIMES. Oh, and I secretly enjoy WM films, even though I know I shouldn't and it makes me less gnar.

[sarge1957]

Hey Kya, the boys in the TGR (and MSP) flicks, at least the big mountain stuff I work with, are just regular dudes. They just loved their sport so much, and got so good at it, someone decided to support thier habit. They really aren't about "showing off" at all. The big lines are far too humbling for that. I guy like Nobis for instance is just interested in seeing how far he can take it, and loves to challenge himself. Take away the camera, and these guys do the same lines. No dis intended on your point at all, I just hate to see people think the the big guns in the sport somehow have less soul because they are now getting paid to do it. Sarge.

[Core Shot]

Good point Sarge.

Oh, and although skinning for pow is not something I wanna watch, Skiing pow is something I could watch for hours. Seriously. that is what really gets me stoked for winter is the pow segment. I end up re-winding that fucker and watching it over and over and over.

As a non-jibbing non-hucking skier, I really don't see myself going flippy spinny switch sole grind or dropping an 80 footer. What I totally relate to and what makes me wet is the snorkel segment.

Hopefully there's sweet pow in Tangerine Dream.

Maybe someday TGR will fulfill my wish and make a 100% POW MOVIE using all the outtakes and extra pow footage from over the years.
C'mon guys, you got the footy allready paid for - just splice and dice.
Has any major ski movie been 100% pow??
I think this could be a revolutionary product (and relatively cheap to make).

[Kya]

......I just hate to see people think the the big guns in the sport somehow have less soul because they are now getting paid to do it. Sarge.

No offense taken, but I don't recall stating that they did have less soul then anybody else. I was just saying that maybe the core skiers are tired of watching the repetetive segments (not crummy skiing) over and over again.

[Kya]

Until you realize that watching regular dudes ski is boring, and that skinning for pow = a very short movie since you won't get many high quality shots. Snowmobile access is different, as we've seen lately that plenty of filming is going on via sled accessed terrain.

Aren't you a powder skier? Haven't you heard of quality over quantity?

I think you missed my point. Yeah, who wants to watch two guys skin for six hours and then ski for like ten minutes. That is not what I am saying.

Go to tech talk and check out my post about "sled help."

I think watching regular dudes rip is more inspiring then the pros who ski almost everyday all winter. I think it is more impressive to be a teacher, accountant, nurse, fire fighter, ect. but still bag 14,000 foot peaks on a regular basis. Again, not to diss the pros pulling off some sick stuff.

[The AD]

I love watching the TGR and MSP movies, but I think the main problem is they have to crank out a new movie every year. This just isn't a formula conducive to creativity. You can make some incremental changes from year-to-year, but when you're under a tight schedule like this it seems like you can't just do something completely different from one year to the next. I don't make movies so I could be totally off base, but that's what I suspect.

[HotTate]

J- Than ask Frozen how that would compare to the budget for a TGR film.

HAHA, yea Frozen, go ahead and tell everyone how much it costs to edit a film. The Tangerine Dream sucks and TGR is so Warren Miller. fuck man, i'd take that as a compliment. Warren Miller is sick but more often than not the skiing isn't jaw dropping. And Tangerine Dream seems to have a shit load of jaw droppers in it. So, please add another part to the poll that says. "TGR is Warren Miller with better skiing" and i think that's probably the best compliment anyone in the ski industry could have. It seems to me that more people should appreciate the films that reflect the sport that they love. Whether they like them or not. By talking shit about how all ski movie suck, you're basically saying that skiing is a shitty sport. Especially when you add a statment like, "everyone in the ski industry should watch LAME and Futureproof" all that really says to me is, maybe you'd sleep better at night if only you were a snowboarder.

[slippy]

J- there are generally two types of editors. There are the guys who focus on storytelling, and the guys who focus on graphics and effects. Usually the guys with storytelluing skills don't give a damn about flashy effects, and usually the effects gurus don't know anything about story.

Also- most of that stuff isn't created by just one editor. There's usually an editor, AfterEffects guy, and one or more graphic designers working on a project. Plus, those facilities cost money. Check what some of your clients pay to use a Discreet Fire system for a day. And that's for a 30 second spot. Than ask Frozen how that would compare to the budget for a TGR film.

That's a perspective of an outsider looking in. It's definitely possible to incorporate a lot more motion graphics in ski films. The only real problem is how time consuming it is, but that problem can be overcome.

[robokill1981]

By talking shit about how all ski movie suck, you're basically saying that skiing is a shitty sport.

So if I say an ad in Powder sucks like the one with the guy who is crazy about his gloves then I hate skiing and should snowboard?

No one ever said it was the skiing that sucks it's how it's been portrayed in comparison to snowboard films. That said I'll reiterate that I'm stoked for the new TGR film and I'm buying tickets at lunch.

[A-wreck]

TGR movies kick ass.
It seems MSP is able to squeeze more footage of actual skiing in there flicks but, TGR has way more skills in the editing/cinematography dept. There movies are much easier on the eyes than an MSP flick. Real pretty to look at.......you know? Like a lot of movies where the beauty of how it was shot and how it ended up being edited is so totally gorgeous that the content doesn't even matter. You just can't take your eyes off it. It's eye candy.

[HotTate]

I just think that there are better ways to critique a film without putting down another film company. If you dont like Warren Miller, fine. If you're a MSP fan and dont really like TGR that much, ok. There's more than enough ski films out there that you should be able to find ONE that stokes you out. That's all any film maker can ask for. It's not about Powder awards and feeling like you're the best film company out there. You just like to hear that some people got stoked to ski when they watched the film. And if Warren Miller or MSP or team 13 do that for you, i say great! You're a skier! You like to watch snowboard flicks, me too. I just really dont like it when people claim that there isn't one ski film out there that's new and progressive. There has to be one.