MSP and TGR going the way of Warren Miller?

[ill-advised strategy]

Warren Miller is as big of an icon as anyone in the ski industry, period.

you were saying....

[powstash]

bring on Teddy Bear Crisis.

Formulas don't do it for me. I like the "hop in the car and film wherever the car ends up or where the snow flies" type of film than the same segment, different location style.

[lax]

msp has a weak list of athletes comparatively
what tgr did with the olenick boys is really cool

but as for completely ignoring the newschool aspect of skiing, thats definately the opposite of progression

[ridefree]

Haven't seen this years MSP or TGR but Slippy did a damn fine job with Echo. Screw the formula. We sell both ski & board flicks in the shop I work at and I can Highly recommend ECHO. I pretty much only board now so my favorite for this year is Absynthe- Futureproof. They have put out excellent movies the last three years (see POP and Saturation.)

[slippy]

Skiers should really watch some snowboard movies and see what these guys are coming up.

I'm pretty sick of this arguement. I hear it about once a week.

Not Another Ski Movie was more creative than any snowboard film in the last few years. Nobody has done better than Greg Stump for creativeness. High Life was also put together pretty well. A lot of the PBP movies are edited unbelievably, too.

If we all copy snowboarding then nobody is unique.

[runethechamp]

but as for completely ignoring the newschool aspect of skiing, thats definately the opposite of progression

But newschool isn't so new anymore, and it gets boring to watch really fast.

[crashnburn'd]

Greg Stump is the godfather in my opinion.

I agree.

I just get sick of the herd mentality here that feels the need to bash whatever isn't percieved as cool, core, sick and gnar (granted, I'm being hypocritical because I do it as much as the next guy).

[powder11]

Formulas don't do it for me. I like the "hop in the car and film wherever the car ends up or where the snow flies" type of film than the same segment, different location style.

I agree. I think most people get de-sensitized to some of the amazing feats of athleticism when its shot out at you like a machine gun. I like a documentry style film like The Collective.

[nest]

1999

[yentna]

The Collective. Very nicely done.

[truth]

What I'm asking is why, in the ski industry, is creativity and progression not rewarded? This seems like a problem. The athletes are killing it. They are creative and progressive, no doubt. I'd just like to be able to say the same thing about the film makers. Skiers should really watch some snowboard movies and see what these guys are coming up. Afterlame (Robot Food) and Futureproof (Absinthe) are so far beyond anything that the industry has produced since Kris Ostness stepped out. Thank God he's back.

The issue lies in what the target market is for the product. If TGR and MSP wanted to remain out on the fringe, barely making rent then they could push the boudaries in every flick. But is that reality? The demographics simply do not support it. Skiing has a much broader demographic than snowboarding. The boarding culture rose from the subculture of skating thus the market demands a certain edge and punk rock attitude to appeal to the youth that are the core of the sport.

Conversely, TGR and MSP led the resurection of skiing from the abyss that we call Vail via the modern freeride movement. The formulas you whine about have not changed since the debut of Continuum 10 years ago. That was a revolution in and of itself. The birth of the fat ski, the AK str8line and big mountain jibbing all sprang from that formulaic well. Now, 10 years into it TGR has finally found the traction to market it's product to the masses via NBC, Nissan ads, FUEL tv and other ventures and you ingnorantly call them out as sellouts? Pshaw. It's a business, it's goal is to make money. If that bugs you than so be it. Do you think TGR and it's atheltes are banking 7 figure incomes? Not even close. These folks have busted thier asses to bring us the dream for a decade, if you no longer share the vision then move on. If you want radical post modern ski flicks go spend a few seasons fishing in AK, buy some gear, bribe your best friends to go huck thier meat and put your money where your mouth is.

[Buster Highmen]

Was windup formulaic? I thought they weren't because of their soundtrack and the amount of crash scenes. Plus, I just liked them.

[CS]

The Collective. Very nicely done.

Agreed, but what (I think) made The Collective so good was the cinemetography, specifically the cable cam, which hadn't really been used before.

And as for this year's films, I haven't seen the MSP, but there were a few times I was floored by what the athletes were doing in the new TGR (such as the switch take-offs and landings on Pyramid, a 14 year old kid hitting and styling Pyramid, and the shit Jeremy Jones was pulling off was unreal.) So as long as deep snow, big lines, and some enourmous backflips are thrown in (thank you Chris Collins) I'd say stick to the formula, maybe just figure out a new way to shoot it. Kinda like the jib segments of Tanner last year shot from a heli. Those were some of the sweetest shots I've ever seen and can watch it over and over, and I usually get bored fast watching jibbing.

[Samwich]

What I'm asking is why, in the ski industry, is creativity and progression not rewarded? This seems like a problem. The athletes are killing it. They are creative and progressive, no doubt. I'd just like to be able to say the same thing about the film makers. Skiers should really watch some snowboard movies and see what these guys are coming up. Afterlame (Robot Food) and Futureproof (Absinthe) are so far beyond anything that the industry has produced since Kris Ostness stepped out. Thank God he's back.

I agree 100% that the bigger companies (TGR, MSP) could use a little more creativity. That said, every time I pop High Life in I am riveted to the screen for the entirety of the movie. MSP was seriously progressive for a while, but there's only so far you can go before people start dying on camera, and the progression had to slow down somewhere. Also, they made way too big of a deal about ski baseing. Sure, it's unbelievably cool and looks like a serious rush. I'd love to try it. I hate watching it 30 times in a rwo from different angles. I never get tired of watching Morrison stomp lincolns and backies off huge cliffs.

My room mates last year in Whistler were snowboarders, and they showed me Pop, also by absinthe. It was ridiculous, and I kept wondering why the hell skiers weren't doing the same thing... everything they were doing is definitely possible on skis. The editing was really clean and creative. We need more minds like meatdrinks and of course Ostness behind the computer.

I love the TGR flicks, and I love the MSP flicks, but I think the smaller companies who have a little bit more creative liberty are coming out with more creative ideas. I think with the money that MSP has available, Team 13/Omen Productions/Bill Heath/others could seriously kill it.

[joshbu]

I'd say stick to the formula, maybe just figure out a new way to shoot it. Kinda like the jib segments of Tanner last year shot from a heli. Those were some of the sweetest shots I've ever seen and can watch it over and over, and I usually get bored fast watching jibbing.

Then you'll like Hit List, because there's like 20 of these shots in it.

One thing I've sort of noticed is the amount of time we see in the flicks of heli down time: complaining about downtime, doing stupid things during downtime, etc... How many shots have there been in the last few years of skiers fishing?

I guess that you gotta put the best atheletes in the gnarliest terrain, and try to avoid the gaper factor, but at the same time, some of the more enjoyable stuff I've seen in the last few years (segments, and even the whole movie Immersion,) were shot on lift serve.

On top of all of that, I'm still of the opinion that the only people beating a dead horse more than the ski movie people are the porn people. I'll still watch it, but I don't think you just can't expect to see something new all of the time: there's only so many ways to do it.

[robokill1981]

MSP's new movie was a souless piece of junk whose only redeeming quality was a soundtrack that didn't suck quite as bad as their past films.

There I said it. I can sleep now

All skiers please go see Neoproto or Absinthe's new film. The only thing you'll regret is seeing ski movies from then on. That said I'm actually really excited to see the new TGR film on Thursday.

[runethechamp]

Can somebody please explain what specifically is supposed to be so cool about all these snowboard movies?

[crashnburn'd]

Can somebody please explain what specifically is supposed to be so cool about all these snowboard movies?

I don't know, but I'm guessing they ooze soul

[Stanley]

Slipy,
i am an extremely dated person but i really like seeing the trick name subtitles in The Trip. Otherwise it'd be like reading Hebrew.

[divegirl]

I thought cberg posted a very interesting inquiry myself. Although I can't compare with the snowboard movies, as I haven't seen any, maybe he has a good point.

However, I really enjoyed the movie. Most of my feeling stems from the shots where they show the skiers' encounters with avalanches. It makes you realize the importance of avie safety. However, it's even more rad when they come out of them okay. The shot where Ingrid nearly trips to her death, and the conversation following really wakes you up a bit. I really enjoyed those scenes!

Legoskier brings up an excellent point about the end of the movie. Completely weak. Snowboard shots are fine and I enjoy them, but the ones at the end were not gnar at all.

[wicked_sick]

Mr. Truth is aptly named

[robokill1981]

Can somebody please explain what specifically is supposed to be so cool about all these snowboard movies?

They are more like skateboard movies in that a lot of importance is placed on having your video be just as creative as it is progressive. The Neoproto film from this year stood out for me as it reminded me not only how fun it is to be skiing/snowboarding, but how much fun it is to be doing those things with your friends.

Ski movies in my opinion (besides the old Ostness films) are mainly formulaic music videos with little creativity. That said people buy a lot of these ski movies so they are obviously doing something right.

[runethechamp]

They are more like skateboard movies in that a lot of importance is placed on having your video be just as creative as it is progressive. The Neoproto film from this year stood out for me as it reminded me not only how fun it is to be skiing/snowboarding, but how much fun it is to be doing those things with your friends.

Ski movies in my opinion (besides the old Ostness films) are mainly formulaic music videos with little creativity. That said people buy a lot of these ski movies so they are obviously doing something right.

What specifically makes the snowboarding movies creative or progressive? What is new every year? Why does the Noeprene movie remind you about how much fun it is to be skiing/snowboarding? I want some specifics.

Thanks for the answer btw.

[subtle plague]

hmmm. progression. everyone is talking about progression these days. skiing, filming and so on. i just don't know. seeing somebody go forth and back or changing the colours or anything that would alter te material itself would not work most of the time because when i'm out there skiing myself i don't see colours and freaky editing. that beind said: i want to be inspired by ski movies. not that could actually pull of the things i see, but i want to dream about it. so i think the stuff i see must contain some sort of "realism" because otherwise you cannot relate to it.(Ok Ok I can't. maybe those snowboard video editing creatives can )
idea 2: i think it is important for such a ski porn movie to have a certain flow. the examples high life and immersion have such a flow and they are the most entertaining movies i have.(ok my movie buying career started with global storming so im right in that 10 year hole of stagnation some mentioned)

concerning the snowboard films: id like to see the absinthe movies to understand why they are so special, but the movies from standard films don't differ from ski movies at all.

concerning the original question: i don't see TGR and MSP going WM, but they are somehow stuck in that "segment" filming. But im lacking the ideas of how to brea out.

[Tippster]

Why is it that I find Woody Allen's films to be trite and small? I used to be a fan, but nowadays... not so much.