Rear Shock Shootout

[Sylvan]

Low leverage bikes for heavier riders is because high leverage bikes require more spring and that heavy spring overwhelms the damping capabilities.

Commencal likely reduced the leverage ratio to get more sensitivity from the damper. Lower leverage ratio means more damper movement for a given wheel displacement, allowing for greater damping control.

Also, I am in my mid forties.

More to it than a damper bud. Both you and Toast seem to have the theory down, but are having a hard time conceptualizing the role leverage plays in a coil setup. Here, I’ll give you another example. If ‘all DH and big enduro bikes are setup progressive, so that’s all that matters,’ then why did big ol 200 lb Richie Rude design his own 170/160 enduro rig with a low leverage ratio, and a relatively low linear progression? Sure, he doesn’t run it with a coil often, but it also means he needs less air (more available), which in turn means he needs less tokens to control the end stroke, and naturally there’s more mid stroke. There are a few high level riders in the sea to Sky who do run their low leverage, linearly progressive yetis coiled, and you couldn’t get em to ride anything else. You simply can’t analyze a bikes kinematic w/o looking at both, unless you’re an average size or skill level, then you’re riding at speeds and weights that most bike companies target in their designs, which means you’re also probably getting all your kinematic info in the PB comments Talking about this is like trying to have a conversation with a boomer bellied up to the bar about his preferred reach, and how Pythagoras, and his understudy Lee, should be tarred and feathered.
Oh, and please, next time vote for science. You and Toast are starting to sound like RFK and the gang

Thanks for your time today Gents; I needed a win, the losses were piling up Appreciate ya!


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[J. Barron DeJong]

Wow, you are an ignorant overly confident douche.

Also, do you think you discovered the Linkage Design blog?

[Sylvan]

Low leverage bikes for heavier riders is because high leverage bikes require more spring...

Also no, hahahahahaha.
Resorting to name calling because your beliefs have been proven wrong isn’t necessary. Sometimes it’s easier just to learn. Ok bye.


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[NuclearNachos21]

"unless you’re an average size or skill level, then you’re riding at speeds and weights that most bike companies target in their designs"

i am quite possibly average in all three of those so you if can go to dms and argue that'd be great


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[J. Barron DeJong]

Sorry Nachos, I will leave it alone after this correction to what Sylvan just said:

A high leverage ratio absolutely requires a stiffer coil/higher air pressure to get the same wheel rate.

If you had a 1:1 wheel-to-shock displacement then the wheel rate would equal the spring rate of the shock. If you change that to a 2:1 wheel-to-shock displacement, then you need to increase the spring stiffness of the shock (either heavier coil spring or higher air pressure) to maintain the same wheel rate.

That heavier spring can be too strong for the damper to control, or it just might not even be available (coil spring not manufactured in a high enough spring rate, or air pressure needed is beyond what the shock can handle).

[NuclearNachos21]

all good. after hearing the praise (and a really cheap price tag) i snagged a ttx2 and will see how it ends up feeling


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[J. Barron DeJong]

Sweet. I have never used them, but TTX is what I would have put on our race cars back in the day if sponsorship did not prevent it, so I am jealous.

Ohlins also made the best shock fluid back in the day. Kept much more stable properties though a range of operating temps than the others.

[ticketchecker]

Since Nacho is sorted and there’s a shock thread going. What would you guys put on a revel ranger to replace the SID? Already replaced the SID fork with a Pike so leaving the Sid world behind.

Admittedly I’m not much of a susp expert when it comes to leverage curves and what not.

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[toast2266]

.

That heavier spring can be too strong for the damper to control, or it just might not even be available (coil spring not manufactured in a high enough spring rate, or air pressure needed is beyond what the shock can handle).

Agreed with everything you're saying. Just to add, some manufacturers were getting into higher overall leverage ratios because it worked better with air shocks. The higher forces overcame the seal stiction better. But then the shock companies got better at making air shocks, so most frame manufacturers trended back towards lower leverage linkages.

I think rockshox and particularly fox really pushed the frame manufacturers towards more homogenous leverage curves about 5 years ago. Up until 2020 or so, you had all sorts of different leverage curves in weird shapes that were all trying to accomplish [fill in the blank with company's] marketing babble]. And it was almost impossible for the shock manufacturers to design dampers that worked well for all of those designs. Now, almost every new bike is some minor variation on a linear progressive curve, and most are hitting an average leverage ratio in the 2.5 ballpark. The main variation is just how progressive they are.




























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[Marshal Olson]

@ticketchecker - Biggest consideration is probably if you use a waterbottle/cage or not, as a reservoir shock may really limit the ability to fit water on the frame (if you care). I'd probably go for a fox float (easy to setup) or CC IL air (more fine adjustment / sophistication) if you want the space. If you dont care about the size, its probably more a matter of how much you prioritize adjustment vs simple to set / then forget.

[grabtindy]

Re: Ranger:
I could never get enough support or rebound control from the SidLuxe on my Spur, really happy with the swap for a Float X.

[NuclearNachos21]

apparently the person selling the ohlins sold it to somebody else instead of me so if anybody has a cheap one eight five by five five shock hit me up [emoji854]


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[ticketchecker]

Thanks Marshal, I tried a push elevenSix last year so got an offset/side load bottle cage setup sorted out. I’m not much into tinkering with setting so the CC may not be the one for me. Looking at used shocks on PB so unlikely to get one with the proper factory tune code, do I care if something came off a Tallboy vs say a SB one fifteen or an Epic Evo Eight? This is where my lack of knowledge on leverage curves and the like comes up short.

Things I’m looking at:

Marzocchi Bomber Air
Float X
Latest fox float, not the SL
Super Deluxe Ultimate

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[Marshal Olson]

Happy to chat specifics on email if helpful. To give good advice, feel free to send me links to shocks on PB you are considering, and I can look at them vs the Linkage graphs and let you know my 0.02 if helpful.

[toast2266]

Thanks Marshal, I tried a push elevenSix last year so got an offset/side load bottle cage setup sorted out. I’m not much into tinkering with setting so the CC may not be the one for me. Looking at used shocks on PB so unlikely to get one with the proper factory tune code, do I care if something came off a Tallboy vs say a SB one fifteen or an Epic Evo Eight? This is where my lack of knowledge on leverage curves and the like comes up short.

Things I’m looking at:

Marzocchi Bomber Air
Float X
Latest fox float, not the SL
Super Deluxe Ultimate

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Epic evo 8 looks to have a roughly similar leverage ratio to the ranger. If you can find something that came off of one of those, I bet it'll feel decent.


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[Dantheman]

Smoking deals on Mara Pros right now: https://hayesbicycle.com/products/ma...32139543380013

Mara Pro is a fantastic shock. Hayes used to sponsor my kid so I'm unabashedly biased towards Hayes products, but a number of folks here are running Mara Pros with universal praise.

edit: Whoops, just saw your shock size hidden in text. Looks like that one is out of stock, bummer.

[NuclearNachos21]

i was thinking about a mara and have seen a couple used for fairly cheap. looking at reviews (blister mainly) it seems like the older version isn't that great due to the equalization? but then looking at mtbr people prefer the older one? can't really make much sense of them if anybody has feedback, love my mattoc and have heard their praises for everything else


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[Dantheman]

Mine is from 2020, love it.

[sf]

Yup. Lyrik on mine, and I`m very happy. Charger 3s are - to me - a lot smoother than Charger 2.1. If bying used, that is.
As I mentioned; no reason to make the front even more capable than the rear. I have a hard time seeing anybody pushing a Lyrik beyond its capabilites, without the rear becoming more of a challenge

[Spencer123]

Love my 2022ish Mara pro. I am 205 with gear which is where supposedly the equalization issue becomes a thing, but it is not a problem. I think at higher weights and psi you will run less sag then you would expect and need to tinker a few psi at a time to dial it in, but it is still plenty plush off the top and then better in every other way than the x2 it replaced.

[ticketchecker]

Epic evo 8 looks to have a roughly similar leverage ratio to the ranger. If you can find something that came off of one of those, I bet it'll feel decent.


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Thanks Toast


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[406]

I'm thinking of replacing the fox shock on my Gen 1 Ripmo (210x55) with super deluxe ultimate if they go on sale this fall. Any one have experience or other ideas?

[Toddball]

^ I have a 210x55 Cane Creek Kitsuma Air I could get rid of. It was rebuilt at BTI last summer and I only got to ride it a few hours before breaking the frame it went on, has been sitting since then.

[Robik]

I do have 2 shocks in your size.
Mara Pro Gen1 (cheap) and EXT Aria (very expensive). Mara Pro MK1 is seriously underrated, couldn't make MK2 work, although the bike had very weird kinematics (Propain Hugene).

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[volklpowdermaniac]

How about faves in the inline single chamber shock world, always curious if something better than my deluxe ultimate from 22 for my light weight stumpy, anyone try the new deluxe ultimate? Cc? Ohlins