Do Salomon heels suck (or is it just me)?

[whambat]

There is a reason just about every World Cup mogul skier skis Pivots. Back in the 90’s many mogul skiers were on Sollys, but as a group they switched to Pivots to prevent pre-releases. Just a little more elasticity in the heel of Pivots before releasing than others. Sollys aren’t bad bindings, it’s just what you are asking them to do. I ski bindings from all manufacturers, while I generally prefer Pivots. I have Sollys on some of my favorite skis and just do what many others do (and has been mentioned on this thread) and run one higher din on the heel than my Pivots. Or rather, I run one less DIN on my Pivots than I do any other bindings.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

I wonder if this is more of a problem with tab style forward pressure than worm screw forward pressure adjustment?


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[altacoup]

I’ve also had heel pre releases on sth[emoji638]. Although that did seem to be just one set of them which I no longer ski.

[tuco]

If you do any significant amount of uphill traversing or any sort of one foot in front of the other style locomotion w/ skis on, Salomon and tyrolia both suck because the heel cup wears @ the boot/heel cup interface. The connection can become quite sloppy over time.
I'm gonna use the shit I have hoarded, but moving forward, I'm buying Look or marker

[chicken feathers]

^ yeah tuco, I’ve noticed heel wear on my attacks too. Was planning on switching to pivots moving forward. Are you saying marker’s are good too b/c of the worm screw?

[tuco]

No, jesters have magnesium heel.

[tuco]

There are versions of Attacks and Mojos that come w/ a worm screw. All heels cups are made of delrin though, which is the wear point

[Judo Chop!]

yup.
I used to walk out of Solly heels somewhat often. same same with various boot & binding model combos over the years.
Much better since switching to pivots. I do miss the reassuring clack when you step in though.

[Lord Thomas]

Yup x 2. Made the switch to pivots about 10 years ago and never looked back. Investigating rockerace at the moment and, a couple of inconveniences notwithstanding, it is looking very promising.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

I’m still in the camp of never walking out of sollys unless the forward pressure is to light. I’m not hucking cliffs though


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[El Chupacabra]

I’m still in the camp of never walking out of sollys unless the forward pressure is to light. I’m not hucking cliffs though


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Same here.

Pivot FKS heels are my least favorite heels. Not a fan of the vague rubbery feel, the weight, the small BSL adjustment range, and the tiny mount pattern. They're the only binding I've ever ripped out of a ski.

[waxman]

Same here.

Pivot FKS heels are my least favorite heels. Not a fan of the vague rubbery feel, the weight, the small BSL adjustment range, and the tiny mount pattern. They're the only binding I've ever ripped out of a ski.

Which K2 did you rip Pivots out of?

Can't speak to Salomon's retail bindings but the only demo binding I've skied out of in the last 4 or 5 years were Salomons, pretty much always a heel release "just skiing along"

[ZomblibulaX]

I used to run Salomon heels at 17 for DH, ESS VARs/Atomics at 14. I have never had to run a pivot at more than 13 for anything, no matter how stupid. This is a not uncommon thing for that type of heel since the 757. Things get tired over time. But having your forward pressure and toe height set correctly trumps adjusting your retention setting +/-2.

Some anecdotal info from testing bindings for the last 25 years:

-Older (pre-STH2) Salomon wormdrive heels sometimes benefit from having a slightly tight forward pressure adjustment if prerelease is occurring. Slightly, mind you.

-Salomon tab-style heels need to be in the center of the fwd pressure range. If they're too tight, you start gobbling up elastic travel and they will prerelease.

-Pivot heel retention settings need to be adjusted before forward pressure if your DIN is at the bottom of the scale. (I.E., range is 6-15 and you're skiing at a 7). Forward pressure is completely different compared to a three-piece heel. Most of the work is being done by the main spring, and if it's not preloaded enough it won't engage completely and your forward pressure will be off. If you're skiing below an 8, you should not be skiing a P15. There, I said it.

-Marker royal family bindings must have forward pressure and toe height set precisely or they will not test correctly. A quarter turn of the adjustment screw can make a big difference. I recommend all royal family bindings be tested every year. Boot sole wear, road grime, overuse, they are pretty sensitive binders. They ski well enough, but I abhor the amount of forward pressure you have to drill in to that heel to get them to function correctly. It's a flawed design that has yet to be sufficiently corrected (much like the pivot turntable: it works well, but there's got to be a better way to accomplish the same thing).

-Marker twincam toes get sticky if they don't release semi-regularly. The X-cell toe is better, but will still test high (sometimes very high) if it doesn't get fully cycled every once in a while.

-Tyrolia heels have far too much leeway in the forward pressure adjustment, and it does affect release values. They should be as close to the middle as possible.

[gwat]

Most of the work is being done by the main spring, and if it's not preloaded enough it won't engage completely and your forward pressure will be off. If you're skiing below an 8, you should not be skiing a P15. There, I said it.

Ima say no to all this. I’ve skied P18s at DIN 8 for years with zero issues.
That is no different than skiing a P15 at DIN 6.

If you know anything about Pivots you know the spring starts being compressed way before the DIN indicator registers on the DIN window.

[ZomblibulaX]

Every spring is compressed before it registers on the indicator window.

The pivot 18 has a heavier spring than the 15, and honestly I don't test enough of the 18's at the lowest setting to make much of a conclusion because most people skiing on an 18 din pivot are not setting their bindings at 8. But plenty of race kids with the old fks 155, and now park kids with the P15 forza show up with a recommended din of 6, and the heels pretty consistently test low and the dildo won't fully engage until the din is increased.

[jackstraw]

Nice write up Zom. I'm assuming you're doing torque tests to get this info. I haven't done that since I worked at the Stowe shop where we were required to torque every single binder that went out the door...new or old. The Look failed consistently not releasing withing the allotted range...always over. That never sat well with me for the average skier. Most "skiers" set their din to what they need, not some chart, so it's fine for those folks.

And riding an 18Din set at 8 makes no sense unless you got the binder for free. Why lug that extra weight around?

[stuckathuntermtn]

It seems Salomons are pretty sensitive to toe height setting. It can also come loose over time. Would be nice if they had some kind of automatic toe height like other companies. No, not the Z, not the strive garbage.

[fleaches]

Update:

After yet another pre release where I narrowly avoided fucking up my knee, I brought the bindings to a shop to have them tested. Everything tested totally fine, so I think I'm just over Salomon heels. Will remount with pivots this week.

[Muggydude]

I skied STH[emoji638]’s for half a season before I had enough prereleases that I switched to pivots and attacks


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[tenB]

Update: After yet another pre release where I narrowly avoided fucking up my knee, I brought the bindings to a shop to have them tested. Everything tested totally fine, so I think I'm just over Salomon heels. Will remount with pivots this week.

Sounds like your dins are set too low. If a shop checked your forward pressure, toe height and tested them in range, you need to run a higher din. Plenty of us extensively use the same binding with zero pre-releases. What is your din setting and height and weight? The chart only really works well for beginner and intermediate skiers

[fleaches]

I normally ski a 9 with no problems on pivots, makers, and various touring bindings. I had the warden heels at 11. 6', 180lbs, 305 bsl.

The thing that has been concerning to me is that I wasn't getting pre releases when skiing super hard or aggressively, they'd just pop off really unexpectedly on small jumps or roll overs when I wasn't going particularly hard or fast (thank God). It was like any time that I leaned forward much beyond neutral.

[tenB]

Which wardens are you skiing? Your description of the heel just popping off sounds a forward pressure issue or a lack of elasticity if you are on the warden 11. I would be shocked if you had the same thing happen with the STH2s that you are hoarding.

[fleaches]

Warden 13s, same heel as sth2s. I've checked the forward pressure a few times and the shop also thought they were good ?

Can definitely crank the din up a couple more but I'm very skeptical of them now.

Could also somehow be the ski/binding combo? I noticed a few other people mentioned this happened to them on BGs.

[altacoup]

In the past I had a similar problem. Usually on a slow but abrupt compression the heels would release way too easily, even when set to [emoji637][emoji639]. I’ve heard that the first gen sth[emoji638] had a faulty heel construction but that doesn’t seem to be your problem, and I haven’t had the issue since that original version.