Do you detune? Why or why not?

[pfluffenmeister]

You have some HL skis right?

They are definitely detuned.

Sent from my Pixel 8 using Tapatalk

Hmm, fair enough, his tunes are sublime.
By far the best I have skied.
But his edges (even if detuned) are still quite sharp to the touch tip to tail.

[tuco]

HL skis are progressive bevel. (per Marshall) Skis have 1.5° bevel at tip and tail. Polished, but full sharp. Detune is up to end user. It's in post #24 in the 50/50 thread

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Musty starts a thread to wiggle his Vienna sausage at everyone. Seeks validation that he’s a superior skier because he doesn’t need to detune even though WC skiers ski on de-tuned skis. That’s my take on this thread after reading it through. I don’t really care if he’s a better skier than me.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[tuco]

Yeah!. There's 0 WC skiers skiing that tune that was posted

[stealurface831]

variable bevel is indeed the way.

[Mustonen]

Musty starts a thread to wiggle his Vienna sausage at everyone. Seeks validation that he’s a superior skier because he doesn’t need to detune even though WC skiers ski on de-tuned skis. That’s my take on this thread after reading it through. I don’t really care if he’s a better skier than me.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

I mostly just suck at asking questions. But sure, you got me.

The thing that sticks out to me is that I’m not better than you, almost certainly, yet my ski tuning preferences vary. Even just calling it a preference and leaving it there doesn’t really answer the question… most other characteristics we can talk about a bit more intelligently. Width, radius, taper, flex…. It all comes down to what we’re trying to do or idiosyncrasies with preferred terrain or turn shape or technique or background (racing, freeride, freestyle). Detuning tips and tails? I got nothin.

[Mustonen]

[emoji638]][emoji640][emoji639]][emoji637][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji639]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji639]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]]][emoji637]]No, it’s my ability to ski faster and with more aplomb that allows me to get some edge out of a more dull tune. Powerrrrrr

And what LVS and Djongo said.

That’s interesting… power and/or the ability to be able to apply more edge pressure? Perhaps I need sharp tips and tails to get any engagement at all, but those who can better modulate increased edge pressures also appreciate less engagement further out toward tips and tails?

[stuckathuntermtn]

It's not the deburring.... It's the dragging them across rocks.

Reading. You may be doing it wrong.

I read it again. You wrote that deburring detunes your whole edge.
That's a no from me, dawg.

[TAFKALVS]

That’s interesting… power and/or the ability to be able to apply more edge pressure? Perhaps I need sharp tips and tails to get any engagement at all, but those who can better modulate increased edge pressures also appreciate less engagement further out toward tips and tails?

How’s your boot fit? Comfort? Performance? Race?

How’s your cuff alignment?

What type of boot? Race? Freeride? Cross-over AT? AT? 3 piece or overlap boot? Soft or stiff boot?

Where do you ski? Colorado? Utah? Washington? Vermont?

What kind of runs do you ski? How fast? How steep? Are there lots of trees, bumps, and variations in terrain that require quick adjustments?

How tall? How heavy?

Long or short tib/fib?

Thin or thick calves?

A lot of variables that could drive different preferences… and I didn’t even get in to different ski techniques…

[MagnificentUnicorn]

There it is, different strokes for different folks


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[XXX-er]

no body has even talked about strokes of the file

[Mustonen]

How’s your boot fit? Comfort? Performance? Race?

How’s your cuff alignment?

What type of boot? Race? Freeride? Cross-over AT? AT? Three piece or overlap boot? Soft or stiff boot?

Where do you ski? Colorado? Utah? Washington? Vermont?

What kind of runs do you ski? How fast? How steep? Are there lots of trees, bumps, and variations in terrain that require quick adjustments?

How tall? How heavy?

Long or short tib/fib?

Thin or thick calves?

A lot of variables that could drive different preferences… and I didn’t even get in to different ski techniques…

Exactly! But do we have anything besides “magnets how do they work” on this? Do you think thin or thick calves actually impact somebody’s sensitivity to edge detuning?

As an example, MO said something somewhere in re: mount point on rockered skis, and to find the balance point with more tip than tail rocker (Corvus) some might feel the need to move back, presumably because they balance further forward than others, whereas moving back on a ski with a more even camber profile will just put you behind that balance point, which is no bueno. Makes some sense and sheds a bit of light on sensitivity to mount point vis a vis camber and balance point outside of just the sidecut. You all probably already knew that, but got my old wheels a turnin’.

While this stuff is complicated, man, with a lotta ins and a lotta outs and a lotta what have yous, there are some generalities we can usually pull out to focus our thinking on such things.

So since you’ve apparently identified all the myriad complexities, TAKFALVS, care to opine on how any one or several might impact whether somebody prefers any particular level of detuning?

[TAFKALVS]

We all have unique biomechanics that impact how we tip a ski on edge it’s compounded by the gear upstream of the ski.

I naturally pronate plus ski in 140 flex boots and am heavy and have thick calves (zero movement laterally in my boot cuff) and therefore can put an enormous amount of pressure on my inside edge with very little effort. I ski primarily off-piste in bumpy treed terrain with wet high density snow, and tend to ski more flat base with mostly subtle edge tipping movements to initiate my turns, with high edge angles only coming in to play immediately during and after the point my ski is in the fall line. I use a lot of tip pressure and rotary movement coming from femur rotation in my hip socket to drive a pivoted turn. I do not typically rely on the sidecut of ski much to make a turn.

If on groomed terrain I’ll initiate a turn using more aggressive edge tipping movements and riding the edge of the skis but even then I put a lot of pressure on the ski to bend it in to an arc and I don’t need sharp edges to achieve that unless we’re talking about WROD ice conditions. I prefer to have a ski that I can feel like I can easily release from an arc at any given point.

The skis I choose tend to be traditional mounts, 190cm in length, mid to high 20m turn radius, camber underfoot with modest rocker, a relatively long running length, and typically a damp, stiff construction with a high level of torsional grip inherently.

I don’t gel with full reverse camber skis or overly rockered or soft skis, as I can over flex them easily and feel too much edge pressure underfoot, and I cannot press on the tips how I like.

Long story short, I like to slide/drift as needed and don’t like feeling locked in to a turn.

[rainy512day]

I learned about detuning about 15yrs ago when I bought Line Prophet 100s at one shop and bindings at another. The shop I bought the bindings at was reputed to have the best tech in town so I had the skis mounted there. He was the guy that did setups for the local racing scene. The first time I went out on the Prophets I thought I was going to kill myself, I kept catching an edge. I made my way down the hill and went back to the shop where I bought the skis. The tech there looked at the ski recognized it was a race tune and did a major detune on the shovel and tail, after that no problems at all. The Prophets were twin tips but not quite rockered. Ever since I detune from the contact point on all my skis.

[AlecO]

First you need to clarify what you mean by detune. I aggressively round the edges of my skis on any part beyond the side cut and or the splayed part of the tips and tails. If the edge doesn’t contact the snow when on a groomer, hard or soft, there’s zero reason for it to be sharp. Old timer WC tuner Norm did this on the team skis. If there’s any soft snow, scraped off ice, loose granular on groomers the edge that doesn’t contact the firm snow will drag because of the square or acute angle sharp edges.

I leave the edges on my firm snow skis sharp except for removing the burrs and rounding the part that doesn’t contact the firm snow. Soft snow skis get the same treatment on tips and tails and varying degrees of detune on the contact part of the sidecut.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

This is the way.

[J. Barron DeJong]

Mustonen, have you ever skied the same skis on the same day detuned and not?

Just wondering if it’s a “I’ve tried it and it’s not for me” situation or a ‘“I’m happy enough with the way my skis ski” situation.

Or maybe an ‘I couldn’t tell the difference, so why worry about it situation’, but sounds like probably not that.

[XXX-er]

OMG that ^^ sounds like back to back testing ?!

[Mofro261]

Mustonen, have you ever skied the same skis on the same day detuned and not?

Just wondering if it’s a “I’ve tried it and it’s not for me” situation or a ‘“I’m happy enough with the way my skis ski” situation.

Or maybe an ‘I couldn’t tell the difference, so why worry about it situation’, but sounds like probably not that.

"I don't tune my skis, ergo I do not detune them nor like the feel when I detune my non-tuned skis"

[XXX-er]

Just call me phil but whether you sharpen tip to tail or never file for years on end,

detune edges or not cuz you havent sharpened them in 5 yrs

isnt failure to tune it also Tuning ?

I seen a vid of some kids riding hand rails and they were detuning ski edges on a hand rail

[Mustonen]

….

Same day, no. I’ve skied detuned skis that I bought used, and had to fix them. What?

And yeah, I tune my skis regularly. I’ll usually touch up my edges with a fine diamond stone before I wax, at the very least, and I wax at least every other day I ski. Bit obsessive maybe. My shit is tack sharp.

Also, though, what the fuck? I’m not questioning anybody’s manhood. Just trying to think about this particular aspect of ski performance and design and preference. I’m not the only one who doesn’t detune their skis. I’m just wondering what aspect, really, we are controlling for here.

[Mustonen]

We all have unique biomechanics that impact how we tip a ski on edge it’s compounded by the gear upstream of the ski.

I naturally pronate plus ski in 140 flex boots and am heavy and have thick calves (zero movement laterally in my boot cuff) and therefore can put an enormous amount of pressure on my inside edge with very little effort. I ski primarily off-piste in bumpy treed terrain with wet high density snow, and tend to ski more flat base with mostly subtle edge tipping movements to initiate my turns, with high edge angles only coming in to play immediately during and after the point my ski is in the fall line. I use a lot of tip pressure and rotary movement coming from femur rotation in my hip socket to drive a pivoted turn. I do not typically rely on the sidecut of ski much to make a turn.

If on groomed terrain I’ll initiate a turn using more aggressive edge tipping movements and riding the edge of the skis but even then I put a lot of pressure on the ski to bend it in to an arc and I don’t need sharp edges to achieve that unless we’re talking about WROD ice conditions. I prefer to have a ski that I can feel like I can easily release from an arc at any given point.

The skis I choose tend to be traditional mounts, 190cm in length, mid to high 20m turn radius, camber underfoot with modest rocker, a relatively long running length, and typically a damp, stiff construction with a high level of torsional grip inherently.

I don’t gel with full reverse camber skis or overly rockered or soft skis, as I can over flex them easily and feel too much edge pressure underfoot, and I cannot press on the tips how I like.

Long story short, I like to slide/drift as needed and don’t like feeling locked in to a turn.

Everybody pronates. That’s just how you walk dude. Do you mean you over pronate? How does that figure in? (ETA: did some research and I suppose you mean your feet/ankles are pronated, or you stand on the insides of your feet. Makes sense. Didn’t mean to be overly literal.)

Interesting other commentary, though, re: reverse camber and steering through the turn. I gel strongly with full reverse skis and have dailied them for years. Note that I do ski cambered skis too, but my tuning preference doesn’t change between them.

Do you think the stiffness of the interface generally figures in, or do you suppose there is a canting issue afoot that you’re fighting with detuning? For reference, I’ve been blessed with a very neutral foot/ankle/knee structure (and neither over nor under pronate, though still not sure how that applies).

ETA: this backs up Self Jupiter’s planetary levels of edge force he can apply as a factor. My own inside edging is not particularly strong, esp. compared to somebody with a race background or, I guess, flat feet. For reference I ski in s/max carbon 130 boots. Stiff for my lightish frame, but not a plug or true race boot. For further reference I don’t have a problem breaking into a drift whenever I want, put perhaps my range of edging motion skews further toward the outside edge than yours?

I wonder if how evenly you can apply inside and outside edges factors in to this preference? I also wonder if those who learned to ski at a high level on straight skis might have more of a preference?

[J. Barron DeJong]

….
Also, though, what the fuck? I’m not questioning anybody’s manhood.

Chillax, dude.

I just thought that hearing how someone who’s decided never to detune arrived at that position could be informative to the ‘why or why not?’ question.

[Self Jupiter]

….

I’m just wondering what aspect, really, we are controlling for here.

Another way to think about it— If I’m skiing somewhat fast and/or in exposed terrain I’d rather struggle for edge grip in the moment vs deal with grabby tips or tails. Done a lot more tomahawking from the latter scenario.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Some people just prefer looser skis is what it comes down to Musty. Just because you can’t feel it and don’t care for it doesn’t mean it’s right or wrong


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[Mustonen]

Some people just prefer looser skis is what it comes down to Musty. Just because you can’t feel it and don’t care for it doesn’t mean it’s right or wrong


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

Uh, yeah. Lots of people like lots of different things. Why are you so threatened by asking why, though? Who hurt you?

Anyways…. This has been interesting to chew on. Curious if others have any thoughts on additional correlations/factors.