2024-2025 NBA thread: who wants to buy a Duck Boat?!?!

[plugboots]

I think something that would make the NBA a lot better would be to take away half the timeouts. It’d be like soccer. The players have to make the decisions as it flows in the game. The coach can be yelling on the sidelines, but that’s it. Think of Curry’s double bang 3.

[TahoeJ]

I’m fine with moving back the three point line about [emoji637][emoji638] inches and eliminating the corner three so the arc / distance is consistent. That alone would have a significant impact.

[Danno]

Jokic has more triple doubles in 3 quarters than any other team has total.

[I Skied Bandini Mountain]

Joker is pretty good at basketball.

[Cruiser]

^^^ And yet sga is the mvp? I don't get it.

Van Gundy said the other night, the only logical reason a voter could choose anyone other than Jokic is voter fatigue.

[J. Barron DeJong]

Can’t quote on this broken site, but if Floater thinks you can’t play defense anymore he should watch some Kings games and see what Keon Ellis is up to.

[J. Barron DeJong]

Cruiser, if you look at all-in-one advanced stats, like eRAPTOR, LEBRON, or EPM, they have SGA and Jokic neck-and-neck, and well in front of third place. It’s not crazy to consider him for MVP. Jokic’s offense is better but SGA makes up on defense.

[EWG]

Joker with 35/22/17 and an 80 foot one handed three point buzzer beater. Second ever 35/20/15 game in NBA history.

Also SGA is killing it. But Jokic is above him in almost every advanced stat and is in the top 3 in points, rebounds, assists and 3 point %.

I agree with Van Gundy but SGA, while not super close to Joker (2 points behind in PER for example), is well in front of third place.

[MarcusBrody]

I watched the Nuggets-Kings game last night. That shot was insane. I angered my wife for "yelling in her ear" as I shouted to my son to get down here as quickly as possible. The fact that Jokic just does not give a fuck about percentages as he's right on the line of leading the league is endearing. This isn't even the least likely shot he's put up as a heave this year. There were a couple where he volleyball-style slap/punched a ball from full court as there wasn't enough time on the the clock to get off a shot (though I think one didn't count as an attempt as it was still ruled after the buzzer).

My other favorite part of his performance, though, was in the 4th when the Nuggets suddenly went cold, Doug McDermott got insanely hot, and the big Denver lead evaporated, Jokic quit trying to get open shots for his teammates for a few possessions, went into the post, and worked Sabonis until he had him backed down to put up one of his automatic little baby hooks. It was pretty much inevitable as soon as the Kings help defender backed off to prevent the kickout. I really think that anyone who complains about the "modern" NBA offense should watch Denver and see how their complaints hold up.

[J. Barron DeJong]

PER is not a reliable stat. https://hoopshype.com/lists/advanced...res-analytics/

[MarcusBrody]

PER alwasys gets a lot of stick, and I understand why, but I don't think it's that terrible. It does a pretty good job of predicting subjective evaluations of excellence even when PER is retroactively calculated and so couldn't have influenced those subjective evaluations (look at top seasons in PER vs. what people people consider the greatest seasons of all time or PER vs. MVP voting, though now it probably influences voting as well).

If you look at the statistical criticism that your link cites (well the ones that aren't paywalled), you see that there are a few statistical/empirical criticisms about who PER favors and who it doesn't. Basically, it favors bigs who rebound well, finish possessions, but not players who distribute. The former actions basically let your rack up "points" in PER without a lot of risk, whereas the latter is where you expose yourself to negative points. (like turnovers). Players like (prime) DeAndre Jordan are examples of players that PER overrates. DJ was a great piece, but I always thought PER slightly overrated him.

Nikola Jokic - with his high minutes and role as the offensive hub - just isn't the type of player that PER overrates. I think PER is like most other stats in that it can be useful, you just have to understand what it's doing and so its strengths and weaknesses.

I do think that SGA has a very legitimate MVP case. I think his defensive impact in this current Thunder team is slightly overrated. I think he's benefiting a lot in the counting stats essentially taking advantage of the disruption that the other perimeter defenders (Dort, Carusos, JDub) are creating, but he is ideal to do that with his anticipation, quickness and long arms. On/Off, though, the Thunder aren't really better or worse with him on or with him off (partially because they have Caruso coming off the bench). On the other hand, I think his offensive impact is underrated. People talk about the Thunder being a good team without SGA, but they're a good DEFENSIVE team without him. They're pretty mediocre without him offensively and very good with him. That is the jump that is allowing them to play like a super elite team and that's all down to his ability to get their offense humming. When he is on, their turnover rate goes down 2%, their free throw and offensive rebound rates goup 3, their effective field goal percentage goes up 4.4% and they score 14.6 points per 100 possessions more when he's on the floor. That's spectacular (99th percentile in the NBA) and when you're doing that to elevate a team to the levels the Thunder are at, that's a legit MVP case to me. Cleaning the Glass's expected wins added by on/off is 26 for Shai. That's monstrous, especially as he does have good players around him, but he's what makes things tick for the Thunder. I might vote for him if I had a vote and in most seasons it would be an absolute no brainer.

Except the Nuggets score 24 points more when Jokic is on the court, have a bigger bump in defense (partially because they are thinner backing him up), and his on/off numbers would lead to an 56 game difference in record.

So i don't know who I would vote for. Probably SGA if the record gap stays similar (percentage wise), but if the Nuggets tighten it up, Jokic's amazing efforts might tip me toward him.

[J. Barron DeJong]

So, one of the complaints about how PER works is that the weightings were tweaked until it fit the developers pre-conceived notion of what a good player is. But, also, to the topic at hand, it’s basically a measure of offensive talent, and the more modern advanced stats clearly state that Jokic is the better offensive player, but SGA’s defense all but makes up for it.

[J. Barron DeJong]

Should have been more careful with my words, and can’t edit: PER tries to measure defense, but the metrics it uses don’t capture defensive talent well, so offensive performance gets overweighted.

[plugboots]

Who’s good at defense is also more eye test related. Certain behaviors like diving for the ball and tipping it to a teammate aren’t in there. I realize certain offensive things aren’t in there either, but you get my point. Everyone hates Draymond, but he runs the d.

[riser4]

My favorite player to watch is still D White.

[Danno]

Jimmy Butler is suspended again.

[stealurface831]

What a shitshow.


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[riser4]

They don't call him Jimmy Fucking Bulter for no reason!!!

[I Skied Bandini Mountain]

https://bsky.app/profile/stephnoh.bs.../3lgqusurqv22k

[I Skied Bandini Mountain]

SGA is pretty good at basketball.

[Grizz]

Z'ers...I'm starting to enjoy watching. Having all the games televised again is helpful. The young core is interesting and have the possibility of evolving into a good team 27/28 ish.

Nice game against Dame and the Bucks. I can see a scenario where Dame plays his last couple years in PDX and retires a Blazer.

Grant, Ayton and Jody need to go.

[plugboots]

SGA is pretty good at basketball.

That was the kind of game that’s gonna lead to some changes in the way OKC plays basketball. Dude goes off, over 50 points, plays great, and they still lose to the Warriors, a mid team without two of their best players.

[I Skied Bandini Mountain]

Great win by the Spurs over the Bucks and CP3 got all up in Giannis' shit near the end of the game.

[alias#?]

Doncic for AD trade? Is this real?

[stealurface831]

Can’t find it confirmed by anyone other than Shams.


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