The Leg Blaster Thread - are we having fun yet?

[ptavv]

It's all about what your goals are, which can shift constantly.

If your goals are to be in the top 10-15% of your age/gender/etc fitness-wise to enable yourself to do recreational things you like doing, then your goals don't really align with a plan that's built to max out your strength gains.

Particularly since you will reach a point where increasing your deadlift/squat/bench numbers starts to impair your recreational performance. If you want to get super fit so that you can climb mountains or whatever, you're only going to impair your performance by carrying an extra 5-10-15 lbs of muscle to the top that are way beyond the strength demands of your activity.

The converse is also true though. There's tradeoffs in all of our training goals -- the biggest being training time, but so what. That you're out there doing something puts you in the top 10-15% of people so do whatever keeps you coming back to the gym and whatever keeps you going outside.

If your goals are to be a professional athlete none of this applies. Building your recreational athlete training around what professionals do isn't a great idea.

Here's this year's version of my mostly backcountry focused pre-season ski plan:
Day 1: Aerobic base, 60+ mins, zone 1-2 (HR 125-145): spin, run, box step ups, whatever

Day 2: Front squat (8 sets of 2 min, 3 reps each, last 5 at working weight, add 5-10 lbs each week to working weight), dead lift (same as front squat), pull up progressions (6 sets of 90 seconds, x reps each, add one rep each week)

Day 3: Aerobic base, 60+ mins, zone 1-2 (HR 125-145): spin, run, box step ups, whatever

Day 4: Ruck walk 4 miles at 45# (goal ~60 mins). Start at 45 lbs, increase weight by 5 lbs/wk until 60. Then increase by 1 mile/week to 8.

Day 5: Aerobic base, 60+ mins, zone 1-2 (HR 125-145): spin, run, box step ups, whatever

Day 6: Leg blasters, push ups (same format as pull up progressions), calf raises, then step ups with 25 lbs for ~45 mins

Day 7: Rest

[californiagrown]

I added Romanian split squats to the routine this past weekend. Damn, that killed me. I used to do those all the time. Amazing what adding a new routine to the regiment can do to hit the legs in a new way. I'm still sore this morning. Honestly, it feels like Saturday was my first day working legs for the season and not week 8. Just more motivation to keep working to get that extra 10% in gains so that I'm only 90% behind pro athlete's level of fitness.

I think you're 1 eastern bloc country north of where you should be. And agreed, BSSs are my go to leg movement when im not squating. Easy to load heavy and they hit my glutes like nothing else does.

[rod9301]

It's all about what your goals are, which can shift constantly.

If your goals are to be in the top 10-15% of your age/gender/etc fitness-wise to enable yourself to do recreational things you like doing, then your goals don't really align with a plan that's built to max out your strength gains.

Particularly since you will reach a point where increasing your deadlift/squat/bench numbers starts to impair your recreational performance. If you want to get super fit so that you can climb mountains or whatever, you're only going to impair your performance by carrying an extra 5-10-15 lbs of muscle to the top that are way beyond the strength demands of your activity.

The converse is also true though. There's tradeoffs in all of our training goals -- the biggest being training time, but so what. That you're out there doing something puts you in the top 10-15% of people so do whatever keeps you coming back to the gym and whatever keeps you going outside.

If your goals are to be a professional athlete none of this applies. Building your recreational athlete training around what professionals do isn't a great idea.

Here's this year's version of my mostly backcountry focused pre-season ski plan:
Day 1: Aerobic base, 60+ mins, zone 1-2 (HR 125-145): spin, run, box step ups, whatever

Day 2: Front squat (8 sets of 2 min, 3 reps each, last 5 at working weight, add 5-10 lbs each week to working weight), dead lift (same as front squat), pull up progressions (6 sets of 90 seconds, x reps each, add one rep each week)

Day 3: Aerobic base, 60+ mins, zone 1-2 (HR 125-145): spin, run, box step ups, whatever

Day 4: Ruck walk 4 miles at 45# (goal ~60 mins). Start at 45 lbs, increase weight by 5 lbs/wk until 60. Then increase by 1 mile/week to 8.

Day 5: Aerobic base, 60+ mins, zone 1-2 (HR 125-145): spin, run, box step ups, whatever

Day 6: Leg blasters, push ups (same format as pull up progressions), calf raises, then step ups with 25 lbs for ~45 mins

Day 7: Rest

If you're training for bc skiing, you need z lot more zone 2. 10 hours a week or more.

Also, zone 2 , weights and endurance, ie hiking with a back pack, should be done consequently, not at the same time.

Endurance work will kill your strength gains and your aerobic capacity.

Which is why you should get stronger than you need, knowing you will lose some during endurance training. Same with aerobic.

Sent from my moto g 5G using Tapatalk

[rod9301]

The issue i have is that lifting weights interferes with the fun stuff, mountain biking or skiing in my case.

I take 1 or 2 rest days a week, but otherwise i always feel kind of tired.

Sent from my moto g 5G using Tapatalk

[Toadman]

I think you're 1 eastern bloc country north of where you should be. And agreed, BSSs are my go to leg movement when im not squating. Easy to load heavy and they hit my glutes like nothing else does.

LOL - Bulgaria, Romania, Serbia, it's all good. I'll just call them the Toadman squats from now on!

[Bronco]

If you're training for bc skiing, you need z lot more zone 2. 10 hours a week or more.

Sent from my moto g 5G using Tapatalk

While you're not wrong, most of us don't have 2 hours a day to work out and frankly that much zone 2 is super boring. ptavv's program seems like a good balance to me.

[J. Barron DeJong]

While you're not wrong, most of us don't have 2 hours a day to work out and frankly that much zone 2 is super boring. ptavv's program seems like a good balance to me.

In training programs for cycling I’ve seen, that extended zone 2 stuff is often the first thing that’s recommended to be dropped if training time is limited. It’s probably critical if you want to be elite, but pretty low value in terms of performance improvements/time commitment.

[ptavv]

If you're training for bc skiing, you need z lot more zone 2. 10 hours a week or more.

Also, zone 2 , weights and endurance, ie hiking with a back pack, should be done consequently, not at the same time.

Endurance work will kill your strength gains and your aerobic capacity.

Which is why you should get stronger than you need, knowing you will lose some during endurance training. Same with aerobic.

as others have already pointed out, it'd be glorious to have 14+ hours/week to dedicate to training, but I don't (not if I want to see my kids and keep my wife at least)

the aerobic base workouts I wrote out are guidelines, some days I get called in early to work and/or have to stay late and it's 30 mins on the spin bike, some days I have more days off and they're 3+ hour hikes or other activities, it's a framework that I don't go crazy sticking to

I do try hard to stick to the one day/week of lifting and then can use the other (currently leg blaster) day to be whatever (core, upper body during climbing season, etc etc). If I skip deadlifting for a few weeks I end up with a tight low back and generally much less comfortable than without. Trying out the front squats right now to because I've always been proportionally weaker at them than back squats and I think improving them will translate to other places -- I might be wrong, but some weeks of doing it once/week isn't a big price to pay

Endurance work killing strength is only true at the very upper ends of "strength" and is more a function of training time/focus than it is of physiology.

I don't need to be swole and huge and super strong… I do however, both from a "do stuff I want to do" and a "my job says I have to" maintain a some relative strength and sprint capacity and a lot of endurance

your advice basically synthesizes to "get stronger than you need so that when you build an aerobic base you can lose some; then get more endurance than you need so you can build strength" and rather than see-sawing up and down on those two axes I go after a middle ground where I maintain a respectable strength base and keep maintaining/building my aerobic base

[rod9301]

In training programs for cycling I’ve seen, that extended zone 2 stuff is often the first thing that’s recommended to be dropped if training time is limited. It’s probably critical if you want to be elite, but pretty low value in terms of performance improvements/time commitment.

I don't agree, most recent research shows that this is more beneficial, including if you want to raise vo2 max.

Sent from my moto g 5G using Tapatalk

[Mofro261]

You guys could work out 30 hrs/week, I'm still going to be the best skier on the mountain.



(But yeah, 10-15hrs/week since May because im stupid like that)

[Buster Highmen]

You guys could work out 30 hrs/week, I'm still going to be the best skier on the mountain.



(But yeah, 10-15hrs/week since May because im stupid like that)

Stupid, but true.

[J. Barron DeJong]

I don't agree, most recent research shows that this is more beneficial, including if you want to raise vo2 max.

Sent from my moto g 5G using Tapatalk

I’ve seen that it does raise vo2 max, but that intervals are more effective for time spent. But I’m not a training expert so happy to be corrected if I’m wrong.

[ptavv]

I try really hard to avoid regurgitating things that the Uphill Athlete (and/or now Evoke Endurance) guys put out because I think their insight and methods are a) older and simpler than they make them out to be and b) kind of a cult at present because they represent a counter-movement to the CrossFit/HIIT movement of the past 10-15 years of training culture.

That said, this article about VO2 max from them puts it really succinctly and accurately:
"No one races 50 miles or climbs a mountain while operating at their maximum capacity. You can hold that effort for only a few minutes. Besides, there’s so little oxygen at high altitudes that it’s physically impossible to operate anywhere near your top-end intensity. These pursuits demand endurance, which is the ability to sustain a submaximal workload for a long time—over multiple hours or even days. You’re not going to be running 5-minute miles at 8,000 meters."

Sure, if you're a mostly sedentary blob with a VO2 max that's in the 20s/30s, you should definitely improve it. Mainly because it won't take a lot of effort and will pay huge dividends to your overall health in general. If your VO2 max is in the upper 40s or 50s and you're training for activities that take place over hours-to-days, training to improve your VO2 max specifically probably isn't an efficient goal.

[bodywhomper]

You guys could work out 30 hrs/week, I'm still going to be the best skier on the mountain.



(But yeah, 10-15hrs/week since May because im stupid like that)

Psychological imagery counts, right?

[schuss]

You guys could work out 30 hrs/week, I'm still going to be the best skier on the mountain.



(But yeah, 10-15hrs/week since May because im stupid like that)

Pffttt, I heard you can't even ride it switch to the road.

[skiSilent_skiDeep]

7 sets full blasters yesterday. Got 2 weeks left before WROD, outside chance of getting to 10 sets.

dont add weight as DTM rx'd, rather start using Pavel's Grease the Groove method. This will help increase yer submaximal workload capacity that ptavv is talking about upthread.

[neufox47]

I would argue that once a recreational athlete is strong and conditioned, there isnt a good reason to try and get stronger and/or more conditioned. The recreational athlete (which we all are) would be better served simply maintaining that high fitness level, and devoting extra time/money/effort towards skill improvement reps (ie, go fucking skiing or mtbing, or something fun). The amount of time, money, effort that goes into trying to achieve the last 10% that a competitive/pro athlete would push for is just not worth the sacrifice IMO... unless you are trying to be a pro athlete, or dont have much else going on in your life.

Oh for sure, I’d argue even at the pro level that is true for strength. Not sure about conditioning though, I can’t think of many sports where being more functionally conditioned won’t improve your sport performance. That said good athletes are made by practicing their sport. S&C is complimentary.

Also, I think athletes in all sports get to a point where they are strong enough. Additional gains give incremental sport gains at best and pose serious risks of injury. JJ Watt blames heavy back squats on ending his career short.

The best athletes in any sport are rarely the strongest athlete in their sport.

[EWG]

Following the plan, now up to 4 fulls. But skiing around here opened early, and I’ve just learned that stacking high G turns on WROD laps with LBs in the same afternoon is not a recipe for success.

Holy crap. That hurt.

[californiagrown]

Oh for sure, I’d argue even at the pro level that is true for strength. Not sure about conditioning though, I can’t think of many sports where being more functionally conditioned won’t improve your sport performance. That said good athletes are made by practicing their sport. S&C is complimentary.

Also, I think athletes in all sports get to a point where they are strong enough. Additional gains give incremental sport gains at best and pose serious risks of injury. JJ Watt blames heavy back squats on ending his career short.

The best athletes in any sport are rarely the strongest athlete in their sport.

For me personally, the calculus has changed dramatically in the past few years as family and career have risen dramatically in importance and time expenditure. What ive come to understand is that hard-ass work with a singular focus is easy...and i wish i would have realized this and taken advantage of it as a younger man. Whats difficult is trying to balance multiple, conflicting priorities that are competing against each other for your time/energy/resources and figuring out what and when to sacrifice and being okay with the consequences. And to bring it full-circle, this is where LBs come in as they are, IMO, the best bang-for-buck leg movements for carryover into mountain sports when time is at a premium.

[caderader]

I've recently added Bulgarian split squats back into my routine and I have a technique question. Should I cry before, during, or after sets? I've been doing all three just to cover my bases...

[neufox47]

I've recently added Bulgarian split squats back into my routine and I have a technique question. Should I cry before, during, or after sets? I've been doing all three just to cover my bases...

Mostly after. Definitely not during. A little beforehand.

[zion zig zag]

Ok legs are feeling pretty good but I most likely have a few more weeks to prep looking at the forecast.

Is it too early to talk in season maintenance? What do you guys do to keep strength up but keep legs fresh enough that a surprise powder day doesn’t leave you with tired legs?


Sent from my iPad using TGR Forums

[sf]

Mostly after. Definitely not during. A little beforehand.

And when sitting down for a shit the next two days

[californiagrown]

What do you guys do to keep strength up but keep legs fresh enough that a surprise powder day doesn’t leave you with tired legs?

The best ski day of my life occurred the day after a leg day- February weekday in my late 20s with 28" the day before that everyone went to, and then 17" overnight that the resort reported as 4" so i lapped all morning with about 30 cars in the parking lot. Was i sore that morning? Yeah. Did it matter, no, not really. I did splat on one landing, but overall I considered my sore legs a sacrifice to Ullr. Also remember that being sore doesnt necessarily correlate to much if any loss of strength/power/endurance.

Realistically, you should have a good idea about storms and if you plan to ski 24-36 hours out so you can make decisions about training then. Mid season you should be in really good shape though, and so a workout shouldnt crush you for more than 24 hours... the only difference for me is that i wont hit multiple sets of <3rep squat or deadlifts and i REALLY make sure to warmup well. I hit one heavy set to keep my upper end strength and CNS primed, and the rest of my training is higher rep with a focus on form and accessory work dealing with whatever issue is nagging me.

[Foggy_Goggles]

@zzz. Yoga, foam roller, hydration, sleep, healthy diet, party moderation

Total body workout. It's all so lame! But it work. Be healthy so you can recover.

Sent from my Turbo 850 Flatbrimed Highhorse