Airbag Thread

**durangobrad** · 10-05-2023, 10:02 AM

Ive got the Osprey Sopris Pro E2 30. It is definitely the most comfortable airbag pack ive tried. Its well made, durable, and lightweight. Good volume for full day touring in midwinter. The only thing that I dont like about it is the metal clasps used to fasten the hip belt, and the adjustability of them is very difficult, nearly impossible while keeping your gloves on. I have seen where folks are swapping those out, I might consider that.

**ktoor** · 10-05-2023, 10:23 AM

welllll if we go back to the source material (although agreed it was a bit stream of consciousness) i only said i wanted multiple pulls on a charge and that i had gotten up to 10. never did i say i needed 10 so take a breath everyone.

first reason i want multiple pulls is for the reason stated above; some of the sparse research presented on wildsnow talks about not pulling in time due lack of to muscle memory or, for canister bags, hesitating as you know youll have to go through the hoopla of a new canister. so wanted to avoid that and be able to practice.

second was that on hut trips or multi-day outings, if recharging options are limited (and you dont want to carry the charging cord), id rather know i can use the bag for a week and even do practice pulls in the field on the one charge. this bag was great for this.

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**LHutz Esq** · 10-05-2023, 10:44 AM

The ability to practice was a primary reason I went with a battery bag. Just seemed simpler.

The secondary was ease of travel, although I haven't actually traveled with it.

I have the Osprey and really like it. Not a ton of space, but one of the most comfortable packs I have ever owned.

It is also holding up very well - 3 or so seasons of me learning to sled and it has almost no visible wear.

**muted reborn** · 10-05-2023, 11:21 AM

Thanks everyone. I had no idea packs have gone to batteries - I thought it was all canisters still. Looks like the Scott and Osprey are the best, I'll have to try them on soon.

**tang** · 10-05-2023, 11:56 AM

When traveling, budget time for security. My fan pack has confounded security in Denver, Seattle, Calgary - like, had never seen or heard of

**durangobrad** · 10-05-2023, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by tang

When traveling, budget time for security. My fan pack has confounded security in Denver, Seattle, Calgary - like, had never seen or heard of

Yes, my pack came with some paperwork stating that it is TSA compliant. It might have sorta helped getting through...they were still puzzled.

Hopefully as they become more prevalent TSA will become more familiar with them.

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**MagnificentUnicorn** · 10-05-2023, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by summit

I discussed the rationale to have an air bag capable of multiple activations without going to the store or paying a refill cost. The point being then people would be practiced and wouldn't delay activation out of unfamiliarity or hesitance over "using up" their one airbag deployment.

I then poked fun at the overkill of 10 activations on a charge and tried to come up with a reasonable hypothetical use case for 4, of which one would be a needed activation.

I struggle with how you reached your reply... I assume you used a million dollar invention like so?

Attachment 471665

That’s a $.50 invention at best. Thanks for the explanation.

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**Shorty_J** · 10-05-2023, 06:52 PM

Yeah I can totally see the merit in having multiple pulls available... I think 3 or 4 seems reasonable... but practice doesn't seem like a good reason if it's just electricity and you can recharge it to practice again.

I was just taken aback at the humble brag at getting 10 pulls on 1 charge. Seemed a bit ridiculous.

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**Eastside** · 10-05-2023, 07:23 PM

Originally Posted by summit

Fan of my Scott Patrol 40 E1

Me too although I sometimes wish it were a bit larger to fit my kitchen sink.

**Jason4** · 10-06-2023, 09:27 AM

If you need 3-4 pulls on one charge and apply a standard 10x margin of safety then you would be aiming for 30-40 in ideal conditions (100% SoX). My guess is that they airbag engine developer was aiming for a 10x margin with 1 inflation being mandatory at all times in all conditions. That's how I would have approached it at least.

I would prefer to have a pack that can be repacked in the field and popped a second time. If I've found myself in terrain where an airbag could make a difference and I've been caught in a slide then there's a good chance of similar conditions being present on the exit route. My next airbag will be electric and preferably with the ability to deflate itself after the avalanche has stopped.

**durangobrad** · 10-06-2023, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by Jason4

If you need 3-4 pulls on one charge and apply a standard 10x margin of safety then you would be aiming for 30-40 in ideal conditions (100% SoX). My guess is that they airbag engine developer was aiming for a 10x margin with 1 inflation being mandatory at all times in all conditions. That's how I would have approached it at least.

I would prefer to have a pack that can be repacked in the field and popped a second time. If I've found myself in terrain where an airbag could make a difference and I've been caught in a slide then there's a good chance of similar conditions being present on the exit route. My next airbag will be electric and preferably with the ability to deflate itself after the avalanche has stopped.

I've accidentally pulled my bag at the bottom of a run while transitioning. Quickly repacked it and gone for another lap.

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**bennymac** · 10-07-2023, 12:29 AM

I printed off the necessary info for airport security and put that paper in a ziploc and put it at the bottom of my pack so I’ll hopefully never find myself in a security check 30min from boarding a flight and have somebody try to say I can’t take it through and be left fighting them about it.

It’s not 100% foolproof - but it prevents me from forgetting it at home and avoids me having to dig that info up on the internet and show them on a small phone screen.

**Stuntmonkey** · 10-07-2023, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by tang

When traveling, budget time for security. My fan pack has confounded security in Denver, Seattle, Calgary - like, had never seen or heard of

I swear to god the Canuck TSA at Calgary are absolutely bottom of the barrel individuals for their complete and utter lack of brains or logical thinking. I've been called out on so much dumb shit there.

**cat in january** · 10-07-2023, 01:50 PM

Only familiar with my abs pack, but I am not sure how many times I would want to cycle the bags and the rip fabric coupled with repacking. I practice the pull with a dead trigger to build muscle memory.

I lost a pierced canister at tsa. Tried to persuade them it was safe because of piercing, but no go as hole is small and can’t see inside. I had flown with a pierced tank many times before. Since I have made arrangements to rent canister and trigger where I go. ABS has been problematic to find sometimes.

**summit** · 10-07-2023, 01:51 PM

I believe the Alpride E1 airbag system is rated for 50 inflations by the manufacturer, minus damage from an actual slide.

ETA from the engineer: "The E1 is certified for 50 inflations. We have to make 100 inflations for certify 50, thus proving a good engineering safety margin. Better, we have a sample of the E1 system in testing for months and have done 10,000 inflations (without backpack) without any problems or undue wear, unbelievable."

**durangobrad** · 10-07-2023, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by cat in january

Only familiar with my abs pack, but I am not sure how many times I would want to cycle the bags and the rip fabric coupled with repacking. I practice the pull with a dead trigger to build muscle memory.

I lost a pierced canister at tsa. Tried to persuade them it was safe because of piercing, but no go as hole is small and can’t see inside. I had flown with a pierced tank many times before. Since I have made arrangements to rent canister and trigger where I go. ABS has been problematic to find sometimes.

That shit is supposed to survive an avalanche, I wouldn't be worried about inflating it too many times.

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**cat in january** · 10-08-2023, 07:53 AM

Like I said only familiar with my abs pack. With that pack I would not want to be exercising the burst panels and refolding it many tens of time. Maybe the capacitor and battery bags are different and maybe I am being overly cautious.

**summit** · 10-08-2023, 10:59 PM

The zipper probably fails before anything else.

Just checked out the new BCA 45L wit Alpride E2... light and ergonomic very tempting.

**enginerd** · 10-09-2023, 10:09 AM

One annoyance I’ve heard from others and experienced myself is the airbag zipper working itself open during normal use.

Litric marketing schpeal says they specifically designed to avoid this, but who knows if it’s effective and I hesitate to jump into a first year system…

Anyone with experience with any of the e1 or e2 systems: can you confirm if they do/don’t have issues with the airbag zipper working itself open over the course of a tour (especially with a very full pack, skis attached, multiple in/out and on/off, etc)?

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**durangobrad** · 10-09-2023, 12:18 PM

I used an E2 system last year, roughly 25 day tours, strapped skis to it a couple of times and never had any issues.

**bennymac** · 10-09-2023, 12:36 PM

likewise (E1 user)

**tang** · 10-09-2023, 12:41 PM

I have had that issue, enough so that if I'm booting up something rocky or not avy-prone, I'll run a voile strap between the handle and a point on the back (over the zippered compartment) to keep it from working its way open. Maybe a better solution is a smallish velcro strap that adds a little more support but should get blown off if deployed - with a fan pack, easy enough to try/test.
I feel that those zippers are always going to be somewhat susceptible to working open if you have weight on the back - especially skis that can rock and lever on it.

**summit** · 10-09-2023, 12:41 PM

Me too, specifically a problem with full packs and/or lifting a heavy pack in a way that stresses the zipper when putting on are likely to open it. I believe this is a function of the sipper design and is found on all the airbag packs, not a fanbag vs compressed air issue.