BLM closes 1/3 of Moab OHV trails to OHVs and e-bikes

[evdog]

Yeah, but my point is those restrictions don't work on trails where you want to allow full size 4x4 jeeps/trucks and just want to keep the sxs riff raff out.

Sure, you could put up signs that say "vehicles must be <50" or more than 70"" but that's just going to annoy people and can't easily be enforced barriers.

Ok gotcha. Usually size limitations are xx inches or less. Some groups commenting on the TMP wanted to restrict gold bar rim etc to full size vehicles only because they "tend to be quieter" than SxS and dirt bikes and would thus disturb non motorized users less. Who is actually complaining about noise there? Hikers don't really use those trails. Unless you're on the shared bit of motorized trail i seldom see or hear motorized up there when biking.

If you just want to kick SxS off trails that allow other vehicles yeah that would be pretty tough. In CA where they are not street legal roads simply get restricted to street legal only. In Moab the best way might be with noise restrictions since noise is one of the main complaints raised in the plan. Put a quieter muffler on them, and the issue goes away? Until suwa turns the next thing into an issue of course....

[skaredshtles]

<snip>

if others stop calling emtbs "mopeds"

But that's exactly what they are...

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Didn't realize that bothered folks. Thought it was common parlance.

My ride group does have tongue in cheek nicknames for our bike types. "Skinny" for trail bike, "squishy" for enduro, "fatty" for fatbike, and "zippy" for emtb.

I'll stop calling normal mtbs "analog" if others stop calling emtbs "mopeds"

Emtbs are mopeds and anything without a motor is just a bicycle.


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[MagnificentUnicorn]

Ok gotcha. Usually size limitations are xx inches or less. Some groups commenting on the TMP wanted to restrict gold bar rim etc to full size vehicles only because they "tend to be quieter" than SxS and dirt bikes and would thus disturb non motorized users less. Who is actually complaining about noise there? Hikers don't really use those trails. Unless you're on the shared bit of motorized trail i seldom see or hear motorized up there when biking.

If you just want to kick SxS off trails that allow other vehicles yeah that would be pretty tough. In CA where they are not street legal roadsS simply get restricted to street legal only. In Moab the best way might be with noise restrictions since noise is one of the main complaints raised in the plan. Put a quieter muffler on them, and the issue goes away? Until suwa turns the next thing into an issue of course....

The FS and BLM have always restricted roads to street legal vehicles outside of OHV designated trails. The motorsports lobby lobbied to make SxSs and ATVs street legal in certain jurisdictions and therein lies the problem


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[Foggy_Goggles]

A moped is a type of small motorcycle, generally having a less stringent licensing requirement than full motorcycles or automobiles.

OK, so "electric moped" may be more appropriate.

Just use a better word. I don't know, "human powered" ,"pedal", "traditional" "bicycle", "non-motorized"

a·cous·tic
/əˈko͞ostik/
adjective
1. relating to sound or the sense of hearing.
"dogs have a much greater acoustic range than humans"
2.(of popular music or musical instruments) not having electrical amplification.
"a sad, gentle acoustic ballad"

an·a·log
/ˈanlˌôɡ,ˈanlˌäɡ/
adjective
relating to or using signals or information represented by a continuously variable physical quantity such as spatial position, voltage, etc.
"analog signals"
noun
a person or thing seen as comparable to another.
"an interior analogue of the exterior world"

Or make up a new fucking word. People outside of the fringe have no idea what you are talking about. If its your lingo, so be it. But when you are talking about access issues, its best to find common ground in the English Language.

[summit]

Anything without a digitally managed electric motor is analog but I'm not attached to the term. I thought it was fun lingo to use with other bikers. Hey maybe not..

Mopeds... have throttles. Historically they had internal combustion engines and that is your dictionary definition. In the modern day they are throttled scooters requiring registration, insurance, a license, and that is a legal definition.

Pedal assist only ebikes (99% of emtb) do not have throttles. These are not mopeds by historical or current convention, nor are they legally mopeds.

Only anti-ebikers call emtbs "mopeds." It is disingenuous to pretend this is meant with anything but a divisive and disparaging intent.

[BFD]

i am not familiar enough with the area to understand what is being closed off the posted map. here is a link to the interactive map. unfortunately it does not show the final decision on closures.
https://eplanning.blm.gov/EPLComment...59ad0ad0abb169
I have no problem closing off all those short spurs. Let the area reclaim. Will create a better experience for all users in the future.

[Foggy_Goggles]

Only anti-ebikers call emtbs "mopeds." It is disingenuous to pretend this is meant in anything but a divisive and disparaging intent.

That is true. Mostly I see it weaponized towards people that don't understand that an electric motor is still a motor.

But analog and acoustic are still stupid. And E Bikes without throttles are still motorized. Those that want Class 1 E bikes permitted on traditionally non-motorized trails need to own that.

[summit]

They have motors, of course.

"Motor assisted" is more accurate than motorized. Or, the more common term, "pedal assist" if you prefer.

That is because there is functionally a huge distinction between a traditional motor vehicle of any type and a pedal assist only ebike.

Next we can discuss why normal bikes are mechanized but touring skis/splitboards are not legally mechanized, despite the fact that they are mechanized

[skaredshtles]

<snip>
Only anti-ebikers call emtbs "mopeds." It is disingenuous to pretend this is meant with anything but a divisive and disparaging intent.

Au contraire, mon frère. I have no issues with mopeds on moped-legal trails.

"The word moped was coined by the Swedish journalist Harald Nielsen in 1952, as a portmanteau of the Swedish words motor and pedaler."

MOtor PEDaler. I used the term for *accuracy.*

[summit]

Au contraire, mon frère. I have no issues with mopeds on moped-legal trails.

"The word moped was coined by the Swedish journalist Harald Nielsen in 1952, as a portmanteau of the Swedish words motor and pedaler."

MOtor PEDaler. I used the term for *accuracy.*

And the contraption he referred to had an internal combustion engine and a throttle So, that's not a pedal assist only electric bike, now is it?

[skaredshtles]

And the contraption he referred to had an internal combustion engine and a throttle So, that's not a pedal assist only electric bike, now is it?

Motor - I don't really care if it's a G-bike or an E-bike.

Moped is the most accurate term for these vehicles.

[Foggy_Goggles]

"Motor assisted" is more accurate than motorized. Or, the more common term, "pedal assist" if you prefer.

That is because there is functionally a huge distinction between a traditional motor vehicle of any type and a pedal assist only ebike.

Go to the meetings. Bring this attitude and logic and report back. I love E everything and think the technology is amazing. My opinion is that "pedal assist" and/or "motor assisted" Electric Bicycles do not belong on the traditionally non-motorized single track trails I use my "mountain bike" on.

Back to the Moab think. You are the SxS guy saying that you should be allowed to drive on ATV or Dirtbike Trails while saying their is a "functionally huge distinction" between you and jeep.

And the game you are playing may get "acoustic" and "analog" bikes banned along with whatever the fuck you want to call the thingy with the pedals and the motors is.

Its the exact think you rallied about when you started the thread.

[Jax]

Certain portions of the Flat Tops have very wide dirt/gravel roads. No problem with sleds in the winter, and in the summer lots of trucks and cars and dirtbikes use these roads to access lakes, hiking trails, dispersed camping and narrow 4x4 trails. Signs everywhere specifically say 'No OHVs' with a little picture and red ban circle around it for those who can't read. Dunckley Pass is the perfect example. So, it is possible to ban OHV's yet still allow full-size rigs. Enforcement is good in the Flat Tops as the FS employees there are hyperfocused, but most districts can't afford that.

There are still OHV-accessible trails that surround the wilderness on all sides so everyone can play. It's a good balance.

I do chuckle when I see hunters for that specific GMU, came all the way from the Dakotas or wherever with their SxSs in tow, only to have to leave them at the campground during their stay.

[Dantheman]

Motor - I don't really care if it's a G-bike or an E-bike.

Moped is the most accurate term for these vehicles.

Moped riders trying to argue that their moped isn't a moped:



The bottom line is that "moped" is a funny word that's fun to say, and the mopeders' inability to just own it and take the joke makes it even funnier.

[Foggy_Goggles]

Yep, and the "Street Legal" or "Plated" dirtbike game is for real. Moab fucked up when they plated SxSs.

Here is Grand County we have an OHV management plan where certain county roads are legal for non-plated "stickers" OHVs. We are starting to get the SxS disease and there is talk of using this as a form of control.

[toast2266]

Only anti-ebikers call emtbs "mopeds." It is disingenuous to pretend this is meant with anything but a divisive and disparaging intent.

I, along with every other ebiker I know, calls their ebike a moped. It's funny. Get over yourself.

[skaredshtles]

I, along with every other ebiker I know, calls their ebike a moped. It's funny. Get over yourself.

And *when* I eventually get mine, I will also refer to it fondly as a moped.

[anotherVTskibum]

Next we can discuss why normal bikes are mechanized but touring skis/splitboards are not legally mechanized, despite the fact that they are mechanized

I've wondered the same, but let's not bring that up, lest the radical environmentalists latch onto it (and there are some, decidedly not even the majority of the anti-motor crowd, who seem to want to minimize human interaction with the rest of the environment).

[XXX-er]

the local mtb area trails here are only do-able on foot/ or acoustic or class 1 e-bikes, its too tech for the rad power bikes, even tho the association paid to build those trails we tolerate the hikers and runners

Railing berms going up hill really is a lot of fun, get to the top take a pulse and it will be 100-110 which is better for an old fuck right and right in the fat burning zone

thro-ing around the extra 20lbs really is harder, I don't see any throttle bikes up there cuz its just too hard, my average spd over 2 seasons is < 13kph, for anyone who is able to run flat out 32kph or 19mph all the time maybe your " mtn bike trails " are not so mtn bike

[frorider]

I, along with every other ebiker I know, calls their ebike a moped. It's funny. Get over yourself.

This.

Although lately the term ‘BroPed’ seems to be gaining ground.

[skaredshtles]

This.

Although lately the term ‘BroPed’ seems to be gaining ground.

I like it...

[Tailwind]

When electric drills became popular I don’t think there was a debate if they should be called “e-screwdrivers” and that screwdrivers should be called “acoustic screwdrivers”.

Hey can you hand me that “analog screw driver” is dumb when it’s just a screw driver.

[skaredshtles]

When electric drills became popular I don’t think there was a debate if they should be called “e-screwdrivers” and that screwdrivers should be called “acoustic screwdrivers”.

Hey can you hand me that “analog screw driver” is dumb when it’s just a screw driver.

[rideit]

So, will we eventually have Class 1,2, and 3 Fleshlights?