"Cell" Knee Protection

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just noticed their ad in Powder...looks interesting...any thoughts? Any one ever see these things up close? Down in Lenas I stopped skiing with my Donjoy Defiance as I feel my knee is now strong enough on its own, and I'm not convinced that it would help prevent any further injury....but this thing looks burly....

www.asterisk.com

[truth]

While I can see the benefit of the knee cap protection, I'm not convinvced a brace can prevent ligament damage as the movement required to snap a tendon is pretty minimal. Even your DonJoy is of minimal protection from what I've researched.

[Big E]

Ty, you must have been out rehabbing while the rest of us were lounging around in front of the puter NOT exercising. Anyway, we had a length discussion on this over here.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Ty, you must have been out rehabbing while the rest of us were lounging around in front of the puter NOT exercising. Anyway, we had a length discussion on this over here.

nice....missed that one, thanks.

[basom]

you can get a pateller cup for the CTI2. but its only recomended for motocross.

[altagirl]

I think there's some benefit. There isn't much you can do to protect against the standard twisting injuries, but for example in my wreck where I strained my MCL biking this summer - that would have EASILY been prevented if I was wearing my braces. But I figured, oh, they bang on the frame, I feel like I don't need them, etc.. SHould have worn them anyway.

So I'll be wearing my braces skiing again this year. Because I figure, the only reason not to is inconvenience, and that's a pretty lame reason.

I don't see why the asterisk braces would be any improvement over your Defiance though (I use the MX knee protectors that Donjoy sells, so I get the same protection). Unless you're just looking for something for your other leg. They sell them at Go-Ride now, and you can probably see one in person at a good motocross shop.

[altagirl]

you can get a pateller cup for the CTI2. but its only recomended for motocross.

You can get the same thing for the Defiance too. It's kindof annoying with ski boots, but you could mod it pretty easily if that's what you're using it for. I'd just trim the bottom inch or so off and it'd work great for skiing.

[hoarhey]

It looks like Will Burks might be wearing the same braces in the "Interconnect" article photo in the Oct Powder.

[descender]

So i guess this brace was produced by the guy behind Cti:

http://www.transworldmotocross.com/m...016150,00.html

"Motocross is the only sport that embraces the concept of preventative knee bracing, and Asterisk is a motocross company, through and through."

[basom]

i think the concept with preventitive bracing is to minimize the danger to the joint if you do infact have an impact/fall that ruptures your shit.

for instance, lets say you fall and bust the acl which requires not so much movement in the wrong direction, as i have been told by my doctor. so now your joint is unstable and in danger of any other possible damage such as bone bruising, cartilage pulverization, meniscus slicing, or even artery severing (a la kreitler) as you starfish down the 65 degree face you were once ripping the shit out of. if you had a brace on, while it may not in reality prevent all acl injury, or any mcl injury, or pcl or whatever, it would help keep the joint in relatively the right position during a fall. [/theory]

[splat]

i think the concept with preventitive bracing is to minimize the danger to the joint if you do infact have an impact/fall that ruptures your shit.

for instance, lets say you fall and bust the acl which requires not so much movement in the wrong direction, as i have been told by my doctor. so now your joint is unstable and in danger of any other possible damage such as bone bruising, cartilage pulverization, meniscus slicing, or even artery severing (a la kreitler) as you starfish down the 65 degree face you were once ripping the shit out of. if you had a brace on, while it may not in reality prevent all acl injury, or any mcl injury, or pcl or whatever, it would help keep the joint in relatively the right position during a fall. [/theory]

You mean shit like what happened to Brant this last season?

http://powdermag.com/features/online...e/brant-moles/

[truth]

You mean shit like what happened to Brant this last season?

http://powdermag.com/features/online...e/brant-moles/

Seems that damage was from the initial impact alone, not some secondary uncontrolled motion.

[basom]

yeah, thats what i thought too truth. at least thats the way it sounds from that interview. its a damn bummer about moles. a damn shamefull bummer.

[altagirl]

A brace would still protect against the damage caused by hyperextension or lateral impact. Not to mention patellar impact damage if you're using a brace with that type of protection.

[descender]

Atricles on this subject:

http://www.physsportsmed.com/issues/...6/wichmann.htm

http://www.physsportsmed.com/issues/...99/paluska.htm

[Vinman]

Still standing by my opinion of no brace if not necessary.

So if we start bracing knees that are 100% healthy to begin with, why stop there. Lets brace the shoulder too and add some football shoulder pads or a full suit of chainmail armor a mouth gaurd and rec specs for everyone.

A bit silly...... yes. Which is my point exactly.

Wearing a brace for a surgically repaired knee or a knee that is recovering from injury is fine. But bracing a knee that has not been injured just because you might have an injury is not worth it. Could it prevent you from having an injury, maybe. But it is not going to protect you from all kinds of injuries that can occur in the knee. In Brant's case he was apparently going pretty fast, prolly faster than most of would ski that kind of terrain. In a high speed crash like that I don't care what kind of brace you have you're going to get injured brace or no brace. The force has to go someplace. Even if the brace takes the impact, the force is going to travel from the brace to the leg.

[basom]

this season i'm wearing a brace on my face.

[Big E]

Still standing by my opinion of no brace if not necessary.
...
Wearing a brace for a surgically repaired knee or a knee that is recovering from injury is fine.

Just to poke at this some more, what would be the "difference" between a healthy (ie, uninjured) knee vs. a surgically-repaired knee once you are far removed from the rehab period, say 18 months, in terms of wanting to use a brace or not?

[Vinman]

Just to poke at this some more, what would be the "difference" between a healthy (ie, uninjured) knee vs. a surgically-repaired knee once you are far removed from the rehab period, say 18 months, in terms of wanting to use a brace or not?

On average an ACL graft (autograft (patellar tendon or hamstring)) will mature between 12-24 months. When I say matures, I mean it finishes remodeling itself. A PT or HS graft, once it is implanted in the body someplace else will remodel the types of fibers it is made up of to become more ligament like instead of remaining as a tendon. this is not true of allograft since it is dead tissue.

Most docs these days are prescribing a brace for the first year or so. Providing that the knee is stable, no giving way, no major recurrent swelling, no pain and your muscles are strong it is my opinion that as time goes by a brace is needed less and less.

For some it becomes purely a psychological thing. As in they never really get over that fear of re-injuring themselves. They simply feel better having the brace on no matter if it is really protecting them or not. For those people it can then become a self-fullfilling prophecy and they end up getting injured because they are being tentative.

[altagirl]

Last spring my surgeon said at the latest conference he went to, they presented a study showing that over a 5 year period, skiers with reconstructed ACLs who wore a brace were less likely to reinjure their ACLs. And therefore he recommended I keep wearing them as long as it was reasonably comfortable to do so.

[Vinman]

AG, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying it is a bad thing to wear a brace for more than a year or that those that do are using them just as a psych crutch. I'm not saying that at all. Especially for someone who has had multiple ACL reconstructions and may have some predisposition for this type of injury. Some people espcially those who have some predisposition towards injury definitely should wear a brace.

but don't missread that either. I'm sure there are many people skiing /being active who have plenty of pre-dispositions towards tearing their ACL and will never become injured. Shoulde we brace those people just because they are pre-disposed? IMPO no way.

And IIRC you had an allograft right? Allograft will never beable to remodel or be able to repair itself from micro-trauma since there is no blood supply. For example someone with a sprain to a mature autograft. That autograft has the ability to heal somewhat, allograft does not. Allograft stretches and stays stretched. Which in itself is a good enough reason to brace it in a preventative way to mnimize the chances of it becoming stretched out over time.

The main point I was making was from personal (2x ACL recon for me) and professional experience it seems that many people do just fine without a brace after a year or so. And to answer big E's question of when a surgically repaired knee becomes a healthy knee on a phsyiological basis which is after 1-2 yrs.

i'm also sorry if I come across as a know it all on this subject, but I deal with this kind of thing all of the time. I don't mean to be like that at all. i'm just trying to give good information when peeps ask for it. I also don't mind debating these point with people like you who have a good grasp of what is going on and are informed.

[altagirl]

Oh no sweat. Just throwing in stuff from my situation!

And aside from what you mentioned - For me, the knee brace is probably equivalent to a helmet. I don't think either of them affect the way I ski (or ride) - I'm just used to it and it feels transparent.

[altagirl]

Vin - would you recommend prophylactic bracing for motocross? I know it's pretty widely accepted (by the athletes) to wear knee braces before injury in that, at least compared to other sports.

[Vinman]

That's where i'm not sure. I really don't have much experience with MTX. Totally different from what I see normally. But if the incidence of injury is so high in those athletes that they are nearly 100% going to get injured then I'd say yes.

[schuss]

Also, motocross involves lots of other things flying around that can crush your body parts, so any brace, block or armor is a good thing.