I'm a fan of the Bull Terrier, but this is scary.

[ill-advised strategy]

Damn. I would never put myself between a pitbull and a coyote in a fight.

I just loved my little buddy (I really miss 'er, she was a great animal), I knew she was about to get her ass kicked and this pitbull was mostly focused on her so I could grab the pit's legs/tail from behind and just sort of chuck her down the road. It worked good. My coyote dog chased bears away from me and protected my gf's kids, I owed her more than a few favors, there's no way I was going to let her get fucked up. I was pretty scared but at that stage there's no option.

[Nate Dogg]

I just loved my little buddy (I really miss 'er, she was a great animal), I knew she was about to get her ass kicked and this pitbull was mostly focused on her so I could grab the pit's legs/tail from behind and just sort of chuck her down the road. It worked good. My coyote dog chased bears away from me and protected my gf's kids, I owed her more than a few favors, there's no way I was going to let her get fucked up. I was pretty scared but at that stage there's no option.

I too have gotten involved in a dog fight...not the most intelligent thing, have a scar on my hand from a puncture wound to prove it...dog didn't intend to hurt me but my hand got in the way ...but anyways, I guess it may have been a warped sense of survival mechanism in conjunction with my love for my dog....my dog would do the same for me.

[FollowMe]

The problem w/ Pits is the whole attitude that goes along w/ a majority of their owners - - "oh, look at me, I'm the shit and bad ass cuz I have a pit - - step off". I wish we could euthanize some of the owners instead of the dogs.

[iceman]

Shoot the dogs, nobody eats. Shoot the bull, everybody eats.

[Nate Dogg]

The problem w/ Pits is the whole attitude that goes along w/ a majority of their owners - - "oh, look at me, I'm the shit and bad ass cuz I have a pit - - step off". I wish we could euthanize some of the owners instead of the dogs.

Very true...while they are an innately dangerous breed, they are completely and perfectly fine as pets, granted they have an intelligent owner. If someone is not completely dedicated to owning a pitbull they need to either find a pet that requires less care or not own any pets at all.

As far as this goes...the dogs are starving and are capable killers yet somehow people are mystified by them attacking a bull? I'm sure it is because of the sheer size of the bull, but any common dog would fight for food in that situation -- many are just lacking the balls of the pitbull and would choose less "formidable" prey. Regardless, as stated above, blame the owners and not the breed.

[jayfrizzo]

Meaning it is instinctual for the dogs to seek an ear or jowel hold, by which the animal may be restrained in order to be killed, tied, inoculated... by the handler.

Bandogge, your posts in the biking forum a while ago were informative and interesting, but I'm calling bullshit on a cow or bull holding still long enough to be tied or inoculated with a dog dangling from its lip.

[Spats]

So people are surprised that animals which had been starving for two weeks attacked a cow?

Quite a few of us probably ate some moo-cow today. Except instead of having to kill it ourselves, we paid non-union labor $7.50/hour to do it for us.

[slim]

Quite a few of us probably ate some moo-cow today. Except instead of having to kill it ourselves, we paid non-union labor $7.50/hour to do it for us.

non-union steak is the most delicious.

[Dirty Hoar]

Very true...while they are an innately dangerous breed, they are completely and perfectly fine as pets, granted they have an intelligent owner.

No offense Nate Dogg but this reeks of the illusive somewhat oxymoronish trifecta. You get 100 points!

[Core Shot]

Bandogge, your posts in the biking forum a while ago were informative and interesting, but I'm calling bullshit on a cow or bull holding still long enough to be tied or inoculated with a dog dangling from its lip.

Meh, I'm calling bullshit on the fact that these NEW ORLEANS dogs were trained to restrain cows.
Oh wait, Bandogge said they are genetically pre-disposed to bite necks.
Yeah, so when some folks think they are genetically pre-disposed to be more violent and kill small children, other dogs, and BULLS, we must have had our heads up our asses

Oh, and for the dude that mentioned the golden retriever, although it might try to attack a bull if it were hungry (nipping at its hooves), the minute it saw a human it would abandon that effort, run up to you, and beg for food.

Only an ABPT or devil-dog would rather continue trying to eat a BULL when there are nearby humans that would probably give it an MRE or a biscuit if only it asked politely.

[Bandogge]

Here is a breed description of the AB (American Bulldog) from a friend and breeder of over thirty years, Pastor Lem Miller, owner of Josuha Knls."

"History of the old Southern Bulldog:

We at Joshua Kennels believe the American Bulldog (southern Style) is the truest continuation of the original Bulldog bred in England. Due to the early settlers this bulldog found a new home in the deep South of the United States. If you study the history of the bulldog you will find there are many different views and opinions. However, a careful look at any of the paintings and prints of bullbaiting during the 1700 - 1800's you will see basically the same dog that is now called the American (Performance) Bulldog. This name has only in the past 30 years or so been used to separate it from other strains of bulldogs and terriers. Prior to that time this same bulldog was called, White English, Ol' Country White, Southern Catch Dog, Ol' Time Bulldog and just Bulldog. The American Bulldog for the most part migrated to the southern states, Florida, Alabama, Georgia and Carolina's. In this area the bulldog proliferated in the 1 800 - 1900's. In the state of Florida (of which my family has lived for 6 generations) cowboys known as "CRACKERS" (a term given because of their use of long bullwhips which they would crack over the heads of cattle) would use these bulldogs to help head and drive the cattle through the flat woods and swamps of Florida. These cattle now known as "CRACKER CATTLE" still a pure breed of cattle in Florida, were very wild, so a tough, hard dog was needed in order to herd these cattle and keep them bunched up. The way this was done, when cattle would break and run the cowboy would send his bulldog on the cow and the bulldog would catch the cow by the nose or ear and toss the cow. When the bulldog was called off, the bulldog would drive the cow back to their herd and the bulldog would then circle and bay the herd while the "Crackers" would push the cattle on horse back from behind to the desired location. Written records of this Southern Bulldog are indeed rare, however, stories of legend proportion were widely told. Stories of confrontation with bear, wild cats, coyotes, wild hogs etc. were passed down from generation to generation. It should be noted that the American Bulldogs were and are genuinely used as working and hunting dogs, which produced the reputation of being true stock dogs. The farmer would use these bulldogs not only for cattle but also to catch and hold wild hogs in order to mark the hog, (usually a notch in the hogs ear) to declare ownership. . No breed of dog is more adept at this type work than the American (Performance) Bulldog. It is one of the very few breeds that has the speed, power and tenacity to consistently catch and hold a bad boar hog. These same qualities known as "Bulldog Tenacity" are prerequisites for success in Schutzhund, ring sport and protection training. (Schutzhund and ring sport are the two most demanding systems by which protection dogs are tested for breeding qualities.) These qualities also ensure a healthier, longer living companion.

In giving a brief historical sketch of the bulldog allow me to go to the year 1632 and the writings of COTGRAVE. "They have great heads and great lips with such, men helped him at the baiting of the bull and at hunting of a wild boar. They hold fast at the catching of each". He continues by saying, "the true and most common, should be white with a black spot about the ears or eyes. Any beast that he might come to he should hold with his Seizure and naught leave it". Cotgrave described 3 characteristics which distinguish the American Bulldog of the present day. He had a large, short and thick head and short muzzle; he was remarkable for his high courage and when he attached an animal he hung on. It is also proved that he was used in bull-baiting and the hunting of wild boar. Writing in 1792 Osbaldeston described the bulldog as: "one of the most fierce and strong of his canine race, having a nose short, and the under jaw larger than the upper. Such is the strength and ferocity of these animals, that four of them have been known to master a lion, and when they are turned loose on a bull, and have once properly seized him, nothing short of the loss of life or the giving way of the part can disengage them". Taplin writes eleven years later: "A bulldog, though inoffensive and harmless when properly domesticated, forms to the eye of timidity a most terrific appearance. The breed is by no means so numerous as formerly, in consequence of the gradual decline of bull-baiting and the GREAT NUMBER TAKEN ABROAD. for many of which very great prices were obtained". In the world of the contemporary American Bulldog you'll find many different sizes, forms and colors. Joshua Kennels is committed to producing a true working bulldog that we feel will closely resemble the original. Although we raise strains of working bulldogs popular to the modern bulldogger, we also have a very old line of bulldog that we still call "White English", that has no Johnson, Scott, Williamson, Painter, Tate etc, in it. This particular line comes from an old friend who was born in the deep south and has raised these bulldogs all of his 85 years. He asked me to keep his "White English" pure. It is the goal of Joshua Kennels to ensure that this original style of bulldog survive, and its true qualities retained. The popularity of the American Bulldog has grown rapidly in the last few years. Partially because of the roll of "Chance a.ka. Rattler" in the Disney movie "Homeward Bound" and that of "Petey" a.k.a "Screamer" on "The Little Rascals". Both movies portray the American Bulldog in its true to life role of the faithful companion. Along with its many talents of being a true working bulldog, its most beloved position to his master is that of a friend and protector. In closing, please allow me to insure, this bulldog is not a Bull or Pit Terrier, this bulldog is the original stock dog. This is a true working "stock" dog. It is my privilege to introduce you to: "THE AMERICAN PERFORMANCE BULLDOG" "

And a couple of pictures of hog hunting to lend credence to my statement... All legal... These are Dogo in Argentina, as previously mentionned, showing the same instinct.











A link to a video clip showing catch dogs working in Texas:

ACTUAL HUNTING SEQUENCES... NOT FOR THE SQEAMISH
Dogs on Hogs

CoreShot...

" so when some folks think they are genetically pre-disposed to be more violent and kill small children, other dogs, and BULLS, we must have had our heads up our asses "

As stated before, hunting and catch dogs are typically dogs that have less man aggression than most any dog out there, regardless of breed. How much use would it be to have a dog on which one must depend in the heat of battle with a Boar, catching a Bull... If one had to worry about getting bit?

For that reason, even dogs good at these activities that show any hint of man aggresion go to the fertilizer pile asap, and it is certanly a quality bred away from in all catch dog I have ever met.

[bad_roo]

I don't agree iwth too many things the Labour government in the UK has done recently but watching that video only makes me more grateful to Tony Blair and co for banning hunting with dogs. Disgusting shit.

[Free Range Lobster]

100% agree with Roo

[Bandogge]

I'm not addresing the moral issues of hog hunting with catch dogs... Each of us has his or her own opinion, and has a right to whatever stance they feel.

The point of the article I quoted, the pictures I posted, as well as the video, was to illustrate the instinct of "heading" rather than heeling prey, and show it as behaviour not limited to the american Pit Bull Terrier, but all breeds which deal with likewise work.

I am sorry if the material came off as offensive to some, and will edit a warning to my original post regarding the clip.

[Free Range Lobster]

fuck you you're still wrong

[f2f]

from yesterday's calgary news:

CFCN.ca
Posted at Monday, September 19, 2005 6:23 PM
The city is investigating a dog attack in southeast Calgary.

A pit bull attacked another dog being walked by an elderly man in Lake Chaparral. Witnesses say the pit bull was running free when it attacked a black lab. Workers at a nearby construction crew tried to stop the pit bull by hitting it with sticks. They were unsuccessful until another man jumped out of vehicle and hit the dog with a shovel several times until it backed off. Animal Services seized the animal after the attack.

A vet is treating the black lab. Its condition is unknown but it is expected to survive.

the owner of the attacking dog was shown of the tv report saying she wanted her dog put down (perhaps because she was afraid of litigation?). "i've never expected that".

[Bandogge]

Likwid,

Please do let me know where I'm "wrong"...

Jayfrizzo said he did not believe dogs were capable of doing catch work with Bulls...

While no Bulls were yet pictured being worked by dogs (Have photographic evidence to support this fact should it be asked for specifically.) I assumed the material I included would illustrate this point?

f2f... First point that jumps out at me...

"Witnesses say the pit bull was running free when"

Had simple confinement and leash laws been observed, it seems another tragedy might have been avoided?

Yet the woman is afraid of litigation? She should get her ass tossed in jail for breaking leash laws and negligence.

[Nate Dogg]

No offense Nate Dogg but this reeks of the illusive somewhat oxymoronish trifecta. You get 100 points!

Sorry but I wasn't clear - pitbulls, without proper training, tend to exhibit a lot of animal aggression...not human aggression. That is the "dangerous" part of the breed...pitbulls that are taught how to behave around animals and are comfortable in a variety of situations (only accomplished through exposure) are fine as pets. Hopefully that clarifies it...maybe not tho.

[JEEBUS_]

when i return to earth all animals shall live in peace

that is all....

[dogwonder]

So I don't post here much, but this thread has touched a nerve.

Full disclosure - I am a pit bull owner and will always be one.

It is very easy to look at the majority of dog attacks and fatalities are caused from pit bulls and draw the conclusion they are a dangerous breed. I for one have my own theory. Many people, both good and bad, believe this stereotype to be true, that pits are dangerous. The people who want to be all "gansta" opt to get a pit bull and train them to be an attack dog. These irresponsible owners then lose control of a trained attack dog and when it is free and not under control, it will follow it's training and attack people, other animals, whatever. Then we see the headlines. Which then in turn inspires more gangsta's to get pit's, you see where this is going. It's self fulfilling.

Let us not forget that German Shepards were the attack dog of the German Army. Any dog of substantial size can be trained to attack and kill.

I believe what Miami, Denver, and Cincinnati have done is wrong. It's the wrong answer to the problem. You want to stop pit bull attacks? Crack down on the people training them.

As for the picture, I don't know how these particular dogs were trained, but given they seem exceedingly thin, my guess is they had been without food for some time. The bull may have been near death anyways, which animals can sense; it could have been a good meal. Do we have validation that the sequence of events described in the original story are correct? I've seen too many embellished stories to not be a cynic. And this is the kind of story that someone could twist to make a good headline.

Sorry to rant, but I fight this stuff every day. All for this...Vicious

[EPSkis]

Cute pup!
even if he CAN'T fly.

[uglymoney]

My dog Summit was so pissed off at me for making her hike up to 13,300 feet to a shale covered ridge that contained no sheep, no summit, and nothing whatsoever to bark at she ended up ignoring me for the next 36 hours.

I retaliated by withholding her normal feedings of gourmet Wal-Mart Ole Roy dry dog food. Halfway through the second day, she gave up and paid me some attention. I relented and threw her a few pebbles of food, and were back to being friends again now.

Dogs of any breed can be vial if pushed to their limits, as my Shetland Sheepdog proved just this past weekend with this cruel silent treatment.

nate

[jayfrizzo]

Jayfrizzo said he did not believe dogs were capable of doing catch work with Bulls...

I was joking. You said that dogs will hold onto a cow's ear or jowel so it can be inoculated or tied. I said that if a dog is dangling from a cow's ear it's not going to sit still long enough to be tied.

However, judging by your pics and info I guess the point of the ear or jowel hold is to kill the cow. It's way easy to tie a dead cow I bet.

So, cool.

[Bandogge]

Jayfrizzo:

"I guess the point of the ear or jowel hold is to kill the cow"

Again, minimal research would tell you that is not the case at all. Had you bothered to read the quoted article I posted, you might have taken in the following:

"when cattle would break and run the cowboy would send his bulldog on the cow and the bulldog would catch the cow by the nose or ear and toss the cow. When the bulldog was called off, the bulldog would drive the cow back to their herd and the bulldog would then circle and bay the herd "

or

"The farmer would use these bulldogs not only for cattle but also to catch and hold wild hogs in order to mark the hog, (usually a notch in the hogs ear) to declare ownership."

I contend you read the material I posted before you try to next raise conflict with my contribution(s).

[bad_roo]

Pardon my ignorance but if a bulldog tried to toss a cow by its ear, wouldn't it just rip the ear off?