Japan 23/24 Season

[powfiend]

Just finished reading through the thread start to finish. I'm planning a trip to Japan for January 9-20, 2025 (dates are fixed due to work/family commitments) with a couple buddies, likely a group of 3 possibly 4. One of them has been to Hokkaido once a few years ago, based out of Kiroro with some touring mixed in. We will be doing a mix of resort/sidecountry and touring (guided) and have been debating Hakuba vs. Hokkaido. I realize this season is an outlier but it seems like Hakuba has been hurting for snow outside of a solid system or two with Hokkaido fairing better. I was initially leaning toward Hokkaido because the primary objective is the highest chance of skiing deep pow. We live in Vancouver and ski Whistler/Sea to Sky as our home turf so we are not going to Japan to try to get onto bigger terrain as we have that here.

The reason Hakuba came up is a guide that we have skied with before and really gelled with runs programs out of there. In addition, WhiteCap runs trips out of Hakuba and we have all toured with them out of their McGillivary pass lodge here in BC. From talking to the guide as well as others that have gone with Hakuba, they strongly rate the terrain there. Not just bigger alpine lines, but say that generally it is steeper/longer and less benched than Hokkaido. They also say that in a normal year they get enough snow for it not to really matter.

I think we will have fun no matter what we do, but given primary objective is pow vs. terrain, and we are mid-January, it seems like Hokkaido is the call?

Fuck the guide and making any plans. if you have your dates locked in just make a game time decision. Go where the snow is then. Western guides are ruining Japans skiing they are bringing kooks to all the stashes who shouldn’t be there.
Come here, put in the work and figure it out for yourself. You won’t be committed to any said location or schedule. With the modern GPS, mapping and forecasting resources there is no reason to pay someone else to do the homework for you. The terrain here is easy to figure out if you have any mountain sense and if not, you probably shouldn’t be venturing out of the resorts. I’ve been here the last 2 weeks in Hokkaido. No guide, doing my own research and able to find good zones and snow in a very low point in terms of snow fall. Now heading to Hakuba to chase another system. I wouldn’t have the freedom to move around if I can booked and prepaid in advance. Not to mention guided week is like 3-4k minimum per person. I think my wife and I will end up spending around 8k with all airfare, lodging, lift tickets and food for 21 days. Japan is cheep, easy to navigate and way more interesting if you’re not being schlepped around by some foreign guide who likely doesn’t care about your cultural experience.

In more interesting news, Asahidake was deep yesterday but pretty much everyone chasing snow in Hokkaido was there. Any every fucking guided group of Jerry’s. By 11 line was almost to the end of the cat track. It took almost 2 hours to do a lap! We contemplated just skinning the left zone but it was -14 with winds so my fingers weren’t willing to do the work to deal with change overs.

[BFD]

Fuck the guides, couldn't agree more how western guides are ruining the place. Japan is simple to plan, clean safe easy transportation. Plenty of good info available here. I will disagree about chasing snow. Gaigin had a good post about taking time to plan. My trips are based on touring. Last trip I planned by looking at Google Earth and finding the most vertical than a ryokan in the area where we could just ski out the door. In 3 weeks we were the only skiers staying in any place we stayed. We only saw other skiers one day and they were a Japanese crew. It was 2015 and it was a big year for snow so no need to chase anywhere. And fuck tokachidake I would not ski anywhere that busy in the US sure not going to Japan for that.

[muted reborn]

I was also bummed by the amount of white dudes showing white dudes around. And Tokachidake was the worst, the locals there must be so frustrated with us whiteys taking up 75% of every tram. It seems exploitive for non-native guides to come over and ruin the place. Sure these guides will all claim they are bringing needed tourism money to whatever region they work out of, but we all know they don't give a shit about anything but skiing pow and making money. I only saw one couple with a japanese guide and thought 'good for them!' I'd rather see locals making the decision to overrun their island not foreigners. And local guides could certainly shut down some of the obnoxious white guy behavior in onsens, which would be nice.

Next time I'll know the game better though. As mentioned over and over these guided newbs are easily avoided. I would guess it's much, much more crowded than it was ten years ago, never mind 20 years ago. So ten year old info about quiet places ain't always good anymore.

[boltonoutlaw]

Recent upload from Kokusai

[gaijin]

bolton, is that you? Or somebody else's upload?

[bennymac]

Just finished reading through the thread start to finish. I'm planning a trip to Japan for January 9-20, 2025 (dates are fixed due to work/family commitments) with a couple buddies, likely a group of 3 possibly 4. One of them has been to Hokkaido once a few years ago, based out of Kiroro with some touring mixed in. We will be doing a mix of resort/sidecountry and touring (guided) and have been debating Hakuba vs. Hokkaido. I realize this season is an outlier but it seems like Hakuba has been hurting for snow outside of a solid system or two with Hokkaido fairing better. I was initially leaning toward Hokkaido because the primary objective is the highest chance of skiing deep pow. We live in Vancouver and ski Whistler/Sea to Sky as our home turf so we are not going to Japan to try to get onto bigger terrain as we have that here.

The reason Hakuba came up is a guide that we have skied with before and really gelled with runs programs out of there. In addition, WhiteCap runs trips out of Hakuba and we have all toured with them out of their McGillivary pass lodge here in BC. From talking to the guide as well as others that have gone with Hakuba, they strongly rate the terrain there. Not just bigger alpine lines, but say that generally it is steeper/longer and less benched than Hokkaido. They also say that in a normal year they get enough snow for it not to really matter.

I think we will have fun no matter what we do, but given primary objective is pow vs. terrain, and we are mid-January, it seems like Hokkaido is the call?

We went to Hakuba with Whitecap. Had an amazing trip. Accommodations were fantastic (we were a group of 5 - the guide stays with you in the chalet). Hayden our guide was amazing in all aspects. You’ve dealt with Whitecap before so you know how well they run things. We only had one major dumping of snow just as we arrived but we skied untracked snow all 7 days we were there - and except for one day that a “backcountry chair lift” unexpectedly (for us) opened in the zone we were skiing we rarely if ever had other skiers in the areas we were in.

Not sure how us skiing untracked snow 7 days after a storm in an area where all day we literally saw no other skiers - even in the distance - is ruining it for others. From all appearances no one wanted to ski the amazing snow and terrain where we went.

Having skied Hakuba and Hokkaido I don’t think you can simplify it down to “Hakuba beats Hokkaido for terrain” - maybe on a grand scale but both have what you are likely looking for.

And yes you can do a ski trip in Japan cheaper than paying for an inclusive guided package - this isn’t a revelation to anyone.

[muted reborn]

Not sure how us skiing untracked snow 7 days after a storm in an area where all day we literally saw no other skiers - even in the distance - is ruining it for others.

I'm happy anyone is out there skiing in Japan, far or close to me, as we were all probably having the times of our lives. But if you didn't see the shit show, you are obviously not part of the shit show.

I'm not going to win any friends explaining the issue in more detail, an issue I saw a thousand miles away from you, either you get it or don't and that's fine.

[bennymac]

Not trying to post as an expert on Japan skiing scene - or even anything remotely close to one.

Just posting an anecdotal story that, as an N of 1, shows that you can spend money how you like and hire a guide and go to popular areas and still not be part of any shitshow - nor does your guided group automatically ruin it for others - locals or visitors.

[muted reborn]

We know that.

[SUPERIOR]

Japan is working on visa restrictions that would limit guiding by non-IFMGA guides. I have Japanese friends in the JMGA who are monitoring the process.

If this happens, guides like me (AMGA ski guide) would still have the option to enter on a working visa IF employed by a local company.

I’m completely on board with these possible changes.

Niseko 10 years ago was a joy to backcountry ski in, and now the local trade routes can be a stressful competition to give the client what they paid for and flew 12 hours to experience.

For those saying to go further afield- Guess what? Spots like Shiribetsu and Goshiki Onsen are incredible and that’s why they’ve gotten so popular.

For the majority of wankers, a two hour drive to bc ski is not realistic on a day trip, especially when they’ve already booked some dumb ass expensive dinner in town.

Bottom line -The government and local businesses need to step up and enforce the rules. We need to get these giant groups of middle aged Euros and Americans trudging around the BC out of here.

Smaller groups and Japanese centered will be the way forward.

I work for a large guide group in Niseko that is Japanese owned, but with only about 20-30% guides and employees who are Japanese.

The younger generation does have some interest in guiding, but it’s a bit limited to compared to the young folks from abroad.

Many complex issues centered around a somewhat limited resource that will be even harder to find as climate change ramps up.




Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[muted reborn]

Cool to know Superior. IMO it means a lot coming from you.

My opinions mean mostly nothing, I've skied there only once.

[BiggC]

Japan is working on visa restrictions that would limit guiding by non-IFMGA guides. I have Japanese friends in the JMGA who are monitoring the process.

If this happens, guides like me (AMGA ski guide) would still have the option to enter on a working visa IF employed by a local company.

So many of the westerner focused guiding companies in Japan seem to be hiring out people with no professional credentials to guide backcountry tours. My wife and I tried to hire a guide last minute in Central Hokkaido this year and most of what we found were people whose only training was AST or AIARE 2. We ended up finding an AMGA guide for a day, but it sounded like they were out there working with only a visitor visa.

[boltonoutlaw]

bolton, is that you? Or somebody else's upload?

Gosh no, not me. Burton Global Team Rider Mark Sollors up at Kokusai last week

[gaijin]

Wait a goddamn hot-ten seconds.... that vid is a Burton-paid athlete in JP?

[Mike Pow]

Glad I'm not the only one who won't get those minutes back

[gaijin]

Pajama beanies.

[gramboh]

We went to Hakuba with Whitecap. Had an amazing trip. Accommodations were fantastic (we were a group of 5 - the guide stays with you in the chalet). Hayden our guide was amazing in all aspects. You’ve dealt with Whitecap before so you know how well they run things. We only had one major dumping of snow just as we arrived but we skied untracked snow all 7 days we were there - and except for one day that a “backcountry chair lift” unexpectedly (for us) opened in the zone we were skiing we rarely if ever had other skiers in the areas we were in.

Not sure how us skiing untracked snow 7 days after a storm in an area where all day we literally saw no other skiers - even in the distance - is ruining it for others. From all appearances no one wanted to ski the amazing snow and terrain where we went.

Having skied Hakuba and Hokkaido I don’t think you can simplify it down to “Hakuba beats Hokkaido for terrain” - maybe on a grand scale but both have what you are likely looking for.

And yes you can do a ski trip in Japan cheaper than paying for an inclusive guided package - this isn’t a revelation to anyone.

Thanks Benny, very helpful and looks like you guys had awesome conditions. Was that this winter? Definitely like the vibe and program the Whitecap crew run out of the lodge here so that is a plus. I get the sentiment about why go with guides and just figure it out yourself. Yes, we are capable of doing that re: terrain scouting/management and snow safety, but we are choosing to go guided because we are time limited. We have 7-8 days to ski so not a lot of time to figure out the lay of the land and explore things. If this was 10-15 years ago when we had unlimited free time to research and could have spent 3-4 weeks in Japan then absolutely would've rented a van and done it ourselves. These days, lucky to pull off a ski trip once every 5 years. Maybe when my kids are older we will do that style of adventure trip.

There's clearly a market here and sounds like problems resulting. Hopefully the Japanese sort out a working visa system to force foreign guides into working under a Japanese system so the locals control and benefit the most from tourist dollars.

[bennymac]

Yeah we were there the first week of Feb (2 weeks ago). Definitely we lucked out re:snow given the variability/unpredictability - it rained in Hakuba valley the week before we got there - and it turned very warm immediately after we left (sunny and well above freezing)

Local mags/more experienced mags can weigh in on how typical this is - but it felt like you couldn’t trust a forecast beyond 2-3 days - hearing that it rained all through the valley 5-6 days before we were due to arrive might have scared off a group that had the option to cancel and jump to Hokkaido. Sounds like some Whitecap trips end up spending their time visiting castles and whiskey distilleries instead of skiing - although I suspect that it’s very rare it gets that bad.

Next year I hear forecasters predicting a La Niña winter with lots of snow for western North America - no idea how that plays out in the Nagano area.

We spent 3 days total in transit, 2 days in Tokyo, and 7 full days of skiing. Door to door was gone 12 days. Being away from spouses, kids, pets, jobs - the decision to go with a guided inclusive package with an operation we trusted was a no brainer. The benefits are obvious - and obviously those benefits come at a financial cost.

The whole “fuck that - you can do it for cheaper” idea, while true, can be applied to anything. You can ski on 20 year old boots for cheaper than a new pair if you want to save money too. It also ignores the reality that not everyone can or wants to spend 3-4 weeks away while figuring it out and living in a rented RV with 5 other dudes. To each their own.

[bennymac]

Gramboh - if you decide to go with Whitecap for your trip feel free to reach out before booking flights/hotels etc - can give you some beneficial beta if you want

[boltonoutlaw]

Also not me

[gaijin]

Lol.. gonna throw your skis away after a skin in what was admittedly the best conditions of any volcano previously skied along with so few rocks hit.

[gaijin]

Do us a favor, Bolton... stop posting the shitty shit. The Influencers. Start posting all the cool kids who are appreciating their trips more than trying to sell their lifestyle.

This thread is starting to kill me.

[subtle plague]

Also not me

I couls not stand a Single Minute of that.

[boltonoutlaw]

Do us a favor, Bolton... stop posting the shitty shit. The Influencers. Start posting all the cool kids who are appreciating their trips more than trying to sell their lifestyle.

This thread is starting to kill me.

Unsubscribe to thread and eabod. You're too far up your own ass and your sarcasm meter is broken.

[subtle plague]

Unsubscribe to thread and eabod. You're too far up your own ass and your sarcasm meter is broken.

But he's, like a local and he can cook japanese stuff and he's like..I mean he's the real Deal.