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[Yossarian]

My dad and a bunch of his skiing/climbing buddies are headed back to get out on the Haute Route again this spring, and it's about time for him to get a new setup...so I thought I'd plug you for some advice.

Background, things to know, etc: old school climber types, varying levels of skiing. Some climbers who ski, some are skiers who climb, a couple are actually skier/climbers. Ages 50-60 or so, all very capable old die-hards, part of the first serious wave of outdoorsies to move west and start developing routes/lines/etc here in the CO area; have traveled all over, done some serious mountaineering in the past, but they're all mostly slowing down now. So, think capable, experienced, but getting a bit gray (or bald, as the case may be). Still some good skiers in the great, but of the bunch, I'd say my pops is the weakest technically. He's definitely a climber who skis, not the other way around.

Already owns a pair of old XXs with Titanal IIs, and a super light Dynafit setup. Took the former the first time, went so-so, took the Dynafits + Lasers last time he was there, and it was mess. Thought he'd want the weight savings, but he found it was the downhill where he suffered, not the uphill. Too sloppy, no edging, etc. So, he wants something new.

He's really looking for something that's "just right" for the trip. He's already got his other skis in order, uses the Dynafits for mellow hut to huts in CO, uses the XXs for daily touring, so no need to think about general ski usage. He's just looking for something well suited to the terrain on the Route, which I know shit about.

So, I'm thinking Denali TTs for boots, which will fit nicely in between his Lasers and his Alpine boots...

...and he's satisfied with the Fritschi's, so he wants to end up on this year's equivalent of the IIs, whatever they're called now (Explores?)...

...but I'm not sure on the boards. Lighter is better, of course. I know he doesn't like a super stiff ski, but I also know he's looking for something that will handle in the crust, sastrugi, crud, etc. So it can't be spineless. Something that he won't have to work too hard on, but that has some underfoot edge hold and forebody stability, no chatter wanted.

Stats: 5'9" 170, 58yrs old, I'd call him "Advanced"

I'm thinking something in the 177cm range (his old XXs are the 184s, a little too long IMO), and I'd like to see him go wider, but I'm not sure if it's appropriate, having never been on the Route meself.

Thanks for any and all input...
-cletus-

(YAH, YAH, TECH TALK BIATCH. FUCK YOU!)

P.S. Outside possibility that I'll try to come along for the ride. It's gonna be low key and fair weather travel only, but if any of yous are around then and got nothing better to do than play a little tour guide for a day when they/we pass through your neck of the woods and take a resort day...

[Idris]

Ok, here’s my 2 cents on this one.

Your dad is about the same age as my Mum and more than one of the guides I know in Chamonix. My mum despite being a very average skier has done the haute route numerous times.

The old XX and diamirs is actually a very popular and appropriate ski for the route. The only more popular rig is the Beta ride 9.22 / R9 again with diamirs. Yes his skis are a little long but not overly so. I wouldn’t go any lighter or heavier than this rig – there is a good reason why most people on the route have a variation on this theme.

The only must have as far as the ski rig goes is solid ski crampons. There are some bits of the route that can get scary/impossible without them.

Boots wise, he does need to be able to walk in them, this is one trip that you just have one set of footwear.

As for other gear, every member of the group needs a harness an axe, crampons and at least 2 members of the group need crevasse rescue rig. The group as a whole should practice playing with this one. Double camel backs is another one to suggest, going days at a time the dehydration is compounded.

I will be in Chamonix for the season so give me a heads up when the time comes.

[verbier61]

the best skis I can recommnend are Trab Freerando (there's a thread in tech talk on them). Much lighter than XX and definitely OK downhill. I like them, and am not the only one in yurp. Also, there's a new generation of dynafits still light but more skiable, but I have less to tell about them. Never tried. Denali TT looks fine, but the last word is how they fit.... Also, if they want to stay light, a dynafit binding and a dynafit-compabile boot might be wise.
I'll be in verbier this winter, and am planning a part of the route, the verbier-zermatt, for late april. Just stay tuned.

[Hicks]

Some equipment suggestions/recommendations additionally to what Idris already said:

Skis:
K2 Shuksan (got these myself), Fischer X-Calibur, Völkl Snowwolf, Atomic MX 15 - very good lightweight all-mountain boards, come in suitable lengthes for your dad, the weight difference to regular sticks is notable and ease up the ascents. Even more lightweighted by 200 grams/board but skinnier: Völkl Norbert Joos, Fischer Tour X-tralight, depends on whether the emphasis is more on uphill/climbing or downhill.
Take over the binder from the XXs.

Boots:
Most important is they are somewhat comfortable and fit on the money, no matter which brand. He definitely needs to take the appropriate time to try them on and test before, otherwise it's gonna kill his feet en route. The hikes up can take 8-10 hrs. depending on the route chosen so this is essential.

[Tectonically_Neglected]

From hearsay:

The HR is more slogging than skiing... Therefore choose gear that walks excellent and skis ok.

[Yossarian]

sorry, guess it wasn't obvious from my post...

he/they have been on the route before, parts of it, twice now

and the comments about making sure the fit of his boots is good beforehand, while appreciated, are sort of a ya, no-kidding? issue

my question is as follows...

what skis do you recommend for the general conditions on the route?
they'll be mounted with Fritschis and he'll be using Denalis or an other reasonably stiff AT boot

lighter is better (again, no kidding?), but light-flimsy is not, and the priority for him is on skiability, not pure tourability...

Thanks for the responses so far, any other thoughts on the subject would be great!

[Yossarian]

XX + Titanal II is still pretty common I guess?
Shuksan is a good call, I remember looking at those a while back...
Trab Freerando, I'll check it out...

Thanks

[Choucas]

I have AT gear for sale in prefect shape that would work geat for the Haute Route: 180 cm, Atomic R:9 03/04. Perfect condition. With Fritschi T2 size M binding with brakes -- $280. Ski crampon +$10. Black Diamond standard skins, cut to fit -- $55. Very little use.
I'd done the Haute Route 3X along with most of the classic alpine tours over the past 25 years. This is a nice light, dependable set-up. I'm the same age as your father, (much) more skier than climber. The skis and skins are pretty much new, the bindings had two years of limited use before I put them on the Atomics. Let me know if you are interested.

[KANUTTEN]

Hearsay again:

As for light with torsional stiffness I don't think anything can beat Goode 82's. A friend of mine has these and is superhappy with them - carbon construction make them very light. As for bindings; loads of good words about the new silvretta pure. Worth checking out. This set-up is something I will research for my next touring kit.

Boots are impossible to give advice on, as you know..

[Meathelmet]

s

and the comments about making sure the fit of his boots is good beforehand, while appreciated, are sort of a ya, no-kidding? issue

my question is as follows...

what skis do you recommend for the general conditions on the route?
they'll be mounted with Fritschis and he'll be using Denalis or an other reasonably stiff AT boot

Well, the generall conditions vary from end of march ----> end of may quite a lot...
You can have 50-80cm of new snow in end of the may but in the other hand, you might have to abseil down on pure ice in march.
It all has happened.

The usuall conditions in march-april are "usually" relatively sunny days (the anticyclone is on southern alps quite often,even for weeks at this point) , freeze thaw cycle down, harpack/sastrugi up, with some occaisonal flurries added. In april the anticyclone usually gives up, and the higher ground can get a decent amount of snow in theese late dumps. Wich can make for couple of days of pow, but usually the sun+wind tears it apart quite fast.And creating horrible avy conditions along the way.

So, choosing skiwise, it is a lotto. You can get every imaginable condition there. More important is that they have skied with their rig enough before the trip enough.Obviously.

But the skis mentioned here (xx:s,shuksans,snowolfs,Trabs) are the most common.In the rentalshops as well amongst the skiers.

And as Idris said, the skicrampons are a must.
The starts are usually very,very early,when the snow is frozen solid. Going around with no crampons..umm...not so wise.
A lot of accidents happen every year when people slip with their skins, even in very easy places, with fatal consequences.

[verbier61]

atomic R:9 really have no advantage over XX. Trab and Volkl snowolfs are definitely lighter.

[greg]

I can´t propose a ski to you, but I am rather surprised that you are looking for such heavy skis. the haute route really is rather about climbing. whenever the route is doable the steep cols notches and couloirs are going to be slipped out and icy. the route is simply frequented to heavy at that time of the year. a lot of guys will have passed them before you´re dads group even if they had nightly snowfall. but if you´re father isn´t the best skier I´ld rather be investing some of the heavy weight into wideness instead of stiffness. he´ll have tired legs when decending and will be happy about every little bit of floating and easy turning. skiers that aren´t that experienced don´t trust in their edges anyways. even if a stiff ski offers a lot of edge they are normally not able to use that edge in situations they don´t feel secure and are tired. (backseat, leaning into the hill....) I´ld also try to find a ski that does not have a lot of sidecut. it makes you feel very uneasy sidestepping. also a wide ski and some easy floating will give him a lot of confidence which might actually help more in difficult situations than a lot of edge. staying behind and having the others waiting for you has the worst affect on the ability of not so strong skiers.

btw. if he gets new boots and encounters problems a very competent bootfitter is foot works at sports alpine right next to the aiguille du midi station. he is also the only one that I personally trust in the cham area. forget about foot works at argentiere.

I think the main reason why all those rentals have the atomics with fritschi diamirs/explorers is not, that it´s the appropriate ski for the haute route, but that it´s a very durable ski with a binding that will fit with every boot. however I would recommend the dynafit tlt. lighter and more durable than any other touringbinding on the market. it doesn´t work with every boot though.

my two cents..

[Darkside]

I have a pair of 176cm Rossi Scratch BC's w/BD Ascension skins cut to fit. $225 skis and skins. Pretty light due to the length and Rossi core. In good shape, and has holes for Med. Freerides, not sure if they're the same as the Explorers though.
Would the Garmont Adrenaline be overkill as a boot goes? If he wants as close to alpine stiffness and performance, this is the way to go, IMHO.

[Yossarian]

thanks to all replies, I'll run the gear offers by him.

[verbier61]

I do not want to be offensive in any way, but scratches are absolutely tooooooo heavy for the route. Again, if one wants something better than XX for the specific purpose of the haute route, then the right option is among AT-specific skis

[Tectonically_Neglected]

To heavy is personal preference. I 'know'/ have heard of a guy (could be you(?) , well at least he's in Verb) who did the HR on Launchers...

[greg]

of course, but if you´re asking for a ski that fits a route that´s mostly climbing and for a not so strong skier verbier poses the right question.. of course you can do the route with this setup. you can even do it with stormrider dps and trackers. there are even skiers, that might enjoy that setup during decent...

now, are you getting those adrenalins too?