Soft Snow Gymkhana - The Heritage Lab FR110

[arild]

Just drilled for -7cm from center (Hoji method mount for 335mm BSL). Ready to go! Just add snow.


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Awesome!

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[54-46]

I’ve been listening to Blister’s pod, gear:30, and am thinking about what they’re calling “suspension.” Kinda relating skis to MTB in a way. (They also have a pod with Marshal.)

These seem like they’ll have good suspension in chop due to the heft and the flex. For a resort chop/crud and leftovers ski, I have high hopes.


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[Marshal Olson]

Earlier, before the 110 was offered, I wished for a remake of the Volkl One.
It’s been a few years since I’ve been on that one, but I feel this is pretty spot on.
- accessible and even flex pattern, but not a noodle
- lots of rocker (maybe even more)
- medium/long radius
- weight for inbounds conditions
- according to Marshall; possible to move the mount rearwards toward a slightly more traditional stance

So stoked

Yessir! Those Ones and Twos were rad skis!

[Marshal Olson]

Just drilled for -7cm from center (Hoji method mount for 335mm BSL). Ready to go! Just add snow.

Can't wait for you to give em a go! Thanks.

[Marshal Olson]

I’ve been listening to Blister’s pod, gear:30, and am thinking about what they’re calling “suspension.” Kinda relating skis to MTB in a way. (They also have a pod with Marshal.)

These seem like they’ll have good suspension in chop due to the heft and the flex. For a resort chop/crud and leftovers ski, I have high hopes.


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Yeah man, I think suspension is a good terminology too, coming from the MTB use of the term. A few things that stand out to me in the analogy:

(1) Under or over sprung (too soft/stiff) both yield really rough rides. Sadly, many alpine skis on the market today are undersprung (too soft) for skiers that ski fast in broken snow inbounds, and almost all touring skis are way over sprung (too stiff) when paired to lighter boots/bindings.

(2) The spring curve (ie camber/reverse profile) really matters, and plays into #1 above significantly. With a pre-defined curve (ie full rocker), you need a more linear (round) flex pattern. With flat and cambered skis, you want a more progressive and directional flex pattern for off piste use (stiffer forebody to smooth chunder and a looser tail to slash tight turns off edge).

(3) The damping characteristic itself is firstly reliant on getting the above right, then its a simple matter of tuning the rebound aka mass (heavier = oscillates slower) and reducing trail chatter aka material selection (varied vibration frequency sinks = less resonance).

The reality is that all three work in concert, for a desired feeling, are very subjective, and are required to make a ski with "good" suspension. I love talking about this stuff. So fun!

[kc_7777]

I think these are shipping early!

Got this email from Marshal:

FALL DELIVERY UPDATE

I am so glad to share that production is underway and an early delivery is expected on the next round of skis! At present, I am targeting to ship folks with preorders before the end of November. There is limited stock on these skis, so get in while you can!




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[Marshal Olson]

I think these are shipping early!

Got this email from Marshal:

FALL DELIVERY UPDATE

I am so glad to share that production is underway and an early delivery is expected on the next round of skis! At present, I am targeting to ship folks with preorders before the end of November. There is limited stock on these skis, so get in while you can!




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Working hard over here, homie!
Excited to squeeze in another run of the 186 as well.

Can't wait for everyone to get their sticks on snow.

[ghosthop]

(2) The spring curve (ie camber/reverse profile) really matters, and plays into #1 above significantly. With a pre-defined curve (ie full rocker), you need a more linear (round) flex pattern. With flat and cambered skis, you want a more progressive and directional flex pattern for off piste use (stiffer forebody to smooth chunder and a looser tail to slash tight turns off edge).

!

This isn't the first time you've posted these thoughts, so I wanted to clarify. When you say stiffer forebody, do you mean in front of camber to contact point? and by looser tail you mean less torsional rigidity or something else?

Thanks, perhaps you'll swing by TFW's place this weekend with some skis to flex

[Marshal Olson]

This isn't the first time you've posted these thoughts, so I wanted to clarify. When you say stiffer forebody, do you mean in front of camber to contact point? and by looser tail you mean less torsional rigidity or something else?

Thanks, perhaps you'll swing by TFW's place this weekend with some skis to flex

Sure thing! So think of ski stiffness as a trapezoid give or take. There is a flat spot under foot, and then it tapers to fixed thickness the rest of the way to the ends of the ski near the wide points of the tip and tail.

With the design I reference, the core extends a little thicker in front of the binding for a bit longer than "traditional", and thins a tiny bit more quickly behind the heel to give that super smooth and round flex profile.

I can't say that I invented this, many famous cult classics have exactly this same design.

[riff]

This is fascinating and intriguing to me, I always assumed the tails needed to be stiffer to charge and the tips relatively softer to not be jarring. My brain likes the way you describe it though.


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[J. Barron DeJong]

This is fascinating and intriguing to me, I always assumed the tails needed to be stiffer to charge and the tips relatively softer to not be jarring. My brain likes the way you describe it though.



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You can play around in SoothSki and look at the bending stiffness profiles to get an idea of how the core is shaped. (You have to expand that section to view them.

The ones that are interesting to me are the current Mantras. They don’t flatten, they peak around the toe. Thought it might have just been some weird measuring error, but you can actually see the shape pretty clearly when looking at the side of the ski.

[Marshal Olson]

You can play around in SoothSki and look at the bending stiffness profiles to get an idea of how the core is shaped. (You have to expand that section to view them.

The ones that are interesting to me are the current Mantras. They don’t flatten, they peak around the toe. Thought it might have just been some weird measuring error, but you can actually see the shape pretty clearly when looking at the side of the ski.

interesting, will definitely check out!

I am very curious how it manifests, as there are some hard constraints with respect to core thickness for binding screw depth (ie top laminate + core > 9.5mm).

[J. Barron DeJong]

interesting, will definitely check out!

I am very curious how it manifests, as there are some hard constraints with respect to core thickness for binding screw depth (ie top laminate + core > 9.5mm).

Here’s an example - Mantra 102 vs Blizzard Cochise:



The listed mounting area on the 102 is still plenty long, using standard 9.5x4.1 screws.

[Marshal Olson]

Interesting indeed, very cool find.

[ghosthop]

Thank you Marshal and JBJ, soothski does a good job of illustrating this.

I compared skis to a Bodacious, which I know well and mesh with better than any other ski I've been on. The trapezoid that Marshal described is exactly that for a Bode.

It's a shame they don't have an EHP on that site, I was never able to get along with the hinge point coupled with the lack of sidecut in front of the binding. But the Hoji and Raven both have the trapezoid that Marshal describes but in opposite, quicker taper to the front with more support behind the mount point. Same thing, no s6/Sickle.

[Marshal Olson]

This is fascinating and intriguing to me, I always assumed the tails needed to be stiffer to charge and the tips relatively softer to not be jarring. My brain likes the way you describe it though.

maybe think about it this way...

Tail-biased (traditional) Ski Flex
- Softer tip folds and deflects more in setup snow
- stiff tails can punish riders and fail to release in technical/tight terrain or variable snow

Tip-biased ski flex
- Stiffer tails smooth out chunder
- softer tail allows more variation to turn shape / feather after apex of the turn

Obviously it's all in the execution!

[Island Bay]

maybe think about it this way...

Tail-biased (traditional) Ski Flex
- Softer tip folds and deflects more in setup snow
- stiff tails can punish riders and fail to release in technical/tight terrain or variable snow

Tip-biased ski flex
- Stiffer tails smooth out chunder
- softer tail allows more variation to turn shape / feather after apex of the turn

Obviously it's all in the execution!

I think that was the 98 and 108 Monster's one design flaw: beautiful tip-biased flex, but tip rise was too abrupt to plane/float. Imho.

[Whiteroom_Guardian]

New boots + new zip fits + FR110 sex machines. LFG!!

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[Marshal Olson]

Gimme some sugar baby

[scumpup]

Gimme some sugar baby

Hey Marshal, How would you compare these FR110 to the Rossi Blackops 118? I know that these are full reverse camber, but how would you compare? I've never skied a full reverse camber ski but I do rollerblade some long rockered configurations and the "slarve into a carve" idea really spoke to me through that. If you've skied the BO118 how would you compare the two? Or to the Moment Bibby?


Oh yea also im in a 26.5 mondo point, 5' 10 140lbs do you think one could mount these at -4cm or something like that without ruining the sidecut? Definitely would look into a pair of these for next year (24/25). I don't really care about tip dive and I really just care more about throwing myself off down the mountain.

[Whiteroom_Guardian]

Initial thoughts about 6 or 7 laps in. Fast, fun, surprising edge hold. Make the mountain your playground feel. Very similar to Devs but the flex is "rounder" or more predictable? Good pop but not springy or floppy.

I don't really know how to explain it but I am loving them so far in fairly marginal man-made ribbon conditions with some snow cone on top.

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[arild]

Hey Marshal, How would you compare these FR110 to the Rossi Blackops 118? I know that these are full reverse camber, but how would you compare? I've never skied a full reverse camber ski but I do rollerblade some long rockered configurations and the "slarve into a carve" idea really spoke to me through that. If you've skied the BO118 how would you compare the two? Or to the Moment Bibby?


Oh yea also im in a 26.5 mondo point, 5' 10 140lbs do you think one could mount these at -4cm or something like that without ruining the sidecut? Definitely would look into a pair of these for next year (24/25). I don't really care about tip dive and I really just care more about throwing myself off down the mountain.

Hey, can't compare to the bo118, but what I can say is this: we deliberately designed these so people would have some freedom re: where to mount. MO did his at -8.5 or 9, I went -7.5 or 8 (can't recall exactly), and the likely absolute sweetspot for a centered type skier, with center of sidecut just below the boot center would be -5. This on the 186s.
You could mount at -4, two centimetres ahead of the recommended line, but I don't know what you'd gain. Hope that helps!

Initial thoughts about 6 or 7 laps in. Fast, fun, surprising edge hold. Make the mountain your playground feel. Very similar to Devs but the flex is "rounder" or more predictable? Good pop but not springy or floppy.

I don't really know how to explain it but I am loving them so far in fairly marginal man-made ribbon conditions with some snow cone on top.

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Nice! Can't recall where you mounted yours, old man? Really can't wait to get on mine. [emoji846]

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[Marshal Olson]

Hey, can't compare to the bo118, but what I can say is this: we deliberately designed these so people would have some freedom re: where to mount. MO did his at -8.5 or 9, I went -7.5 or 8 (can't recall exactly), and the likely absolute sweetspot for a centered type skier, with center of sidecut just below the boot center would be -5. This on the 186s.
You could mount at -4, two centimetres ahead of the recommended line, but I don't know what you'd gain. Hope that helps!
Nice! Can't recall where you mounted yours, old man? Really can't wait to get on mine. [emoji846]

@scumpup - just to agree and add a couple things to Arild's comments.

(1) based on quickly sketching the BO118 based on its dim's, the center of the sidecut is about one cm forward of the FR110's. So if you skied the BO118 at, let's say -4cm, then a similar location on the FR110 is -5cm.

(2) The FR110 has a more round flex pattern compared to the BO118, which is quite soft at the ends of the skis and relatively stiff under foot.

(3) The FR110 has more taper tip and tail, where the BO118 has more stubby ends.

(4) the construction of both skis are very smooth and do an awesome job muting trail chatter compared to almost any other skis this progressively shaped.

I think you will find the soft tips and tails and sidecut runnning further up the ski (ie wider shovel/tail) on the BO118 to be a bit more surfy in untracked snow as compared to the FR110. But in tracked, variable, dust-on-crust, wind/sun effect, and especially manky snow, I think you will find the FR110 to be more predictable and smooth. I also think you will find the FR110's round flex and fully rockered setup to be much more maneuverable in the woods and in tighter lines as compared to the stiff underfoot and cambered BO118. Lastly, I think you will find the FR110 to have a higher top end in most normal inbounds conditions.

Hope this helps!

[Marshal Olson]

It is probably worth adding that the second pressing of the 192 and 180 FR110s are already sold out, and there are only 2 pair of 186 FR110 from the third pressing still unclaimed... so better get on ordering if you are reading this and interested, lol

[Whiteroom_Guardian]

I am mounted at -7. This seems to fit well with my desire for a more directional feel to my skis. Compared to my old Devs (which my buddy was skiing on today) the mount on these is quite a bit back from those.

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