Possibly Moving to San Diego, where to live? Other recs?

[Bobcat Sig]

You're in portland right? How do you think the cities compare?

Cool. I'm excited to check it out. Haven't been there in a few years.

I am. Born and raised here with a two-decade stint in Bozeman.

I'm not sure I get the comparison between San Diego and Portland. I think it's because they are both not the bigger cities that they neighbor and because breweries are big here. After that, not many similarities. I will also forewarn you that I'm a bit jaded after returning to Portland after the aforementioned Montana hiatus.

Portland can be great, but you best know what you're signing up for. Breweries and excellent food abound here, so much so that it's very common for Californians in the urban centers to take dining weekends to Portland because it's so much more affordable than dining out in their own town. But that's if you can find a restaurant open and properly staffed. Like many places, finding good employees right now is a struggle.

San Diego's weather is amazing in comparison. While we enjoy seasons up here, everything but summer can be rainy, gray, and depressing. Spring and Fall have their stretches of nice weather, but both are victim to an ever-present gray and constant precip. There's little snow in the winter; we get some, and the little we get cripples the city. Oh, and the beach is 60+ minutes away and pales in comparison to what Southern California has to offer.

There's a present vibe in Portland and it's not nearly the chill that you get in San Diego; transplants refer to it as the Northwest Chill. People here seem to be less friendly, and outgoing, and mostly keep to themselves. Others I know who moved here had problems making friends - I did not. But it's a real thing of which to be aware.

I'm fortunate in that I met my wife in Montana. Dating here can be brutal. If you like overweight, blue hair, ironic tattooed, out-of-work, grumpy women; Portland is great! Otherwise, you may find it difficult. And these reports from friends trying to date all across the area.

Outdoor pursuits are not nearly as close as they are in San Deigo. While Portland prides itself on many things - biking is one. Bike lanes and infrastructure abound, but there's very little mountain biking close in. You're looking at 30+ minutes, minimum, to get to good mountain biking. Skiing is much closer than Mammoth, but not nearly as excellent. It's good and will satiate you, but you best bring your best waterproof gear because you will get rained on. And it's far more crowded than it was ten years ago.

The one upside is that comparatively, housing is more affordable. I think you mentioned a $95k salary. That should get you something decent. Nothing spacious or huge, but certainly more than what you'd find in San Diego. If you live in the city; parking will be awful unless you have an assigned space. And Portland is leading the way on the #fuckcars movement, so be prepared for that.

Tax-wise, the two states share that last similarity. I believe California's effective income tax rate is around 11% or so. Oregon's is about 9%. However, Portland and Multnomah county recently passed another income tax that subjects you to 1 to 1.5% income tax that you must pay with post-tax money (I think).

If it were me in your situation, I'd find a way to make it work affordably in San Diego and spend my winters in Mammoth. Portland isn't as cool as it's made out to be and I say that in all seriousness as someone who has traveled all over the west and mid-west.

[The SnowShow]

Buy a cliffside house in La Jolla or Cardiff by the Sea. \endthread

[El Chupacabra]

Buy a cliffside house in La Jolla or Cardiff by the Sea. \endthread

This.

Hard to think of a nicer place to live. Skiing not so good, but I'd take the trade off to live there.

[liv2ski]

In my youth I lived in OB. It was fun but it is just to gritty for me these days, hence my previous suggestions. Surfing use to be my main activity, but now that no one seems to work, the line up is just to crowded. Skiing is a lot more fun these days for me.

[evdog]

It doesn't seem to catch on fire as much as the rest of CA? Or is it just my EC ignorance on the subject?

Yeah the big ones 406 mentioned are 15+ years back now. The sage/chapparal that covers most of our hills fully grows back in about 7 years so we're probably due for another big one any time now. We've had a few that weren't huge acreage-wise but burned right in the city. Some of those were as early as May. Fire season can go right into November/December. The Thomas Fire in Santa Barbara raged through December. Power companies now shut down the grid in backcountry areas so their decrepit equipment won't spark new fires, but all it takes is one moron burning his toilet paper or lost hunter lighting a signal fire and there she all goes.

[evdog]

I'd like others who actually live in or have lived in SD to chime in, but another place you might consider is Normal Heights. It's fairly close to North Park, but not as trendy and maybe a notch or two grittier and, thus, I imagine a bit cheaper. My sister used to live there and it seems like it had a lot going for it for a single person in their 20s. Check it out when you're there. Adams Avenue is the main drag.

As someone who doesn't spend a lot of time in that part of the city I just consider that part of North Park TBH. The whole area from Hillcrest, University Heights, North/South Park and Normal Heights would all be pretty cool to live in. South toward Golden Hill, Logan Heights and Barrio Logan is cool too but more gritty.

Thanks for the long write up. Lots of good info. Winter is your favorite season and you don't ski? Please explain

OB was my first idea of where to live. I've got a friend of friend that lives in SD and he was saying the homeless was getting pretty bad there? Cool, to hear another vote for north park/south park. I'll definitely be spending some time there when I visit. What do you mean "if you wanted to be more inland"? What does more inland get you? More urban? hotter? better access to freeways?

Also happy to hear there are a lot of people from other places. That was one of my favorite things about nyc, everyone was from somewhere else so everyone trying to make friends instead of having friends from 10 years ago.

you can mountain bike from your place in OB? Seriously? I'm surprised.

Any climbing around?

Winter here is awesome. 65-70 near the beach every day. Perfect weather for riding/hiking. All of our local riding is prime right now especially after a bit of rain. The desert areas like Palm Springs and Anza Borrego have similar high temps in winter. Our mountains get a bit cold but are still rideable unless we get a dump of snow. Late spring until October temps can be very hot unless you can get up to elevation or be near the water. You can still ride, but mostly early morning or sunset or you'll bake.

There are homeless here but you don't really see the disgusting, massive permanent camps right along freeways like you see in Portland, Seattle or LA. It's an issue, but I wouldn't say it affects livability here.

Inland.... wouldn't say it gets you anything except a bit of a different vibe compared to the beach communities. Areas like North/South Park more urban feel. Others like Poway or Rancho Bernardo are more suburban. Those areas might a bit cheaper, and definitely hotter. During May gray/June gloom there isn't a lot of sunshine at the beach. As soon as you cross I-5, you're probably out of the gloom.

MTB is pretty spread out here, but many areas can be connected together pretty well. This loop is from my old place. From OB add 5 miles of bike path each way. So not really MTB from OB, but I'll take it. https://ridewithgps.com/trips/109396334. Stagecoach 400 route: https://ridewithgps.com/routes/29589301. Local MTB club puts on a ride each year to connect a bunch of trail networks together. This is that route, plus the ride home to OB for 60+ miles: https://ridewithgps.com/trips/109396432

Not a climber, but there is lots of good climbing as I understand. Check out https://www.alliedclimbers.org/

[406]

Climbing at El Cajon mountain is awesome, nice granitic rock, multipitch sport and trad routes, basically half hour drive, plus a hike. In town is Mission gorge, good for after work, but not the best rock and short routes.

[huckbucket]

Downtown SD appears to have more housing than most major cities. Sure there are businesses there, but also a metric shit ton of apartments and condos. Great views ($$) although a lot of the streets smell like piss too.

[Bobcat Sig]

Downtown SD appears to have more housing than most major cities. Sure there are businesses there, but also a metric shit ton of apartments and condos. Great views ($$) although a lot of the streets smell like piss too.

I guess that's one downside of the Mediterranean climate of San Diego; far less rain to wash away the dog piss. That's definitely not an issue in the PNWet.

[The AD]

I guess that's one downside of the Mediterranean climate of San Diego; far less rain to wash away the dog piss. That's definitely not an issue in the PNWet.

Not sure *dog* piss is the big problem.

[huckbucket]

Not sure *dog* piss is the big problem.

exactly

[PeachesNCream]

I am. Born and raised here with a two-decade stint in Bozeman.

I'm not sure I get the comparison between San Diego and Portland. I think it's because they are both not the bigger cities that they neighbor and because breweries are big here. After that, not many similarities. I will also forewarn you that I'm a bit jaded after returning to Portland after the aforementioned Montana hiatus.

Portland can be great, but you best know what you're signing up for. Breweries and excellent food abound here, so much so that it's very common for Californians in the urban centers to take dining weekends to Portland because it's so much more affordable than dining out in their own town. But that's if you can find a restaurant open and properly staffed. Like many places, finding good employees right now is a struggle.

San Diego's weather is amazing in comparison. While we enjoy seasons up here, everything but summer can be rainy, gray, and depressing. Spring and Fall have their stretches of nice weather, but both are victim to an ever-present gray and constant precip. There's little snow in the winter; we get some, and the little we get cripples the city. Oh, and the beach is 60+ minutes away and pales in comparison to what Southern California has to offer.

There's a present vibe in Portland and it's not nearly the chill that you get in San Diego; transplants refer to it as the Northwest Chill. People here seem to be less friendly, and outgoing, and mostly keep to themselves. Others I know who moved here had problems making friends - I did not. But it's a real thing of which to be aware.

I'm fortunate in that I met my wife in Montana. Dating here can be brutal. If you like overweight, blue hair, ironic tattooed, out-of-work, grumpy women; Portland is great! Otherwise, you may find it difficult. And these reports from friends trying to date all across the area.

Outdoor pursuits are not nearly as close as they are in San Deigo. While Portland prides itself on many things - biking is one. Bike lanes and infrastructure abound, but there's very little mountain biking close in. You're looking at 30+ minutes, minimum, to get to good mountain biking. Skiing is much closer than Mammoth, but not nearly as excellent. It's good and will satiate you, but you best bring your best waterproof gear because you will get rained on. And it's far more crowded than it was ten years ago.

The one upside is that comparatively, housing is more affordable. I think you mentioned a $95k salary. That should get you something decent. Nothing spacious or huge, but certainly more than what you'd find in San Diego. If you live in the city; parking will be awful unless you have an assigned space. And Portland is leading the way on the #fuckcars movement, so be prepared for that.

Tax-wise, the two states share that last similarity. I believe California's effective income tax rate is around 11% or so. Oregon's is about 9%. However, Portland and Multnomah county recently passed another income tax that subjects you to 1 to 1.5% income tax that you must pay with post-tax money (I think).

If it were me in your situation, I'd find a way to make it work affordably in San Diego and spend my winters in Mammoth. Portland isn't as cool as it's made out to be and I say that in all seriousness as someone who has traveled all over the west and mid-west.

Thanks for the long response. Lots of good stuff in there.

Agree, lots of good food there. I would even dare to say its one of the best food per capita cities there is. Could be one upside to the “weird” brings out art, in this case good food.

I spent 4 years in Seattle so I understand the “northwest chill” or as we called it the Seattle freeze. I’ve lived a few places and I agree that its true. I wouldn’t say it was crazy hard to make friends but people did seem to keep to themselves more than average, not exactly helpful for dating. My brother lives in Portland and has said the same thing about people/dating -> there’s definitely lots of blue haired, bad tattoos to be found. With that being said I know 2 gals that live there that are cute, normal, outdoorsy, love to travel, I should reach out to them to see if they’re still liking it. I guess SD might be better in this sense but I just saw an article saying that SD has the highest male to female ratio for any US city due to the Navy base, not a great stat for a single guy hah.

Interesting to hear that outdoors in Portland aren’t as close as they seem. Are you maybe comparing to Montana distances? I assumed they were an easy day trip but a tricky (but doable) after work trip. This is how Seattle was. I assume any big city would be along these lines at best but maybe I’m wrong here. It does sound like SD has mountain biking right outside of downtown, impressive.

I get the bad weather. Like I said I lived in Seattle and now live in Spokane so I get the amount of gloomy days. Definitely gets to me in the winter but it does give you great forests so not all bad. Don’t get me wrong tho, my favorite winters are cold and sunny. Honestly I kind of worry if I’ll like 70 and sunny winters. I love change, including the change of seasons.

[Bobcat Sig]

Thanks for the long response. Lots of good stuff in there.

Agree, lots of good food there. I would even dare to say its one of the best food per capita cities there is. Could be one upside to the “weird” brings out art, in this case good food.

I spent 4 years in Seattle so I understand the “northwest chill” or as we called it the Seattle freeze. I’ve lived a few places and I agree that its true. I wouldn’t say it was crazy hard to make friends but people did seem to keep to themselves more than average, not exactly helpful for dating. My brother lives in Portland and has said the same thing about people/dating -> there’s definitely lots of blue haired, bad tattoos to be found. With that being said I know 2 gals that live there that are cute, normal, outdoorsy, love to travel, I should reach out to them to see if they’re still liking it. I guess SD might be better in this sense but I just saw an article saying that SD has the highest male to female ratio for any US city due to the Navy base, not a great stat for a single guy hah.

Interesting to hear that outdoors in Portland aren’t as close as they seem. Are you maybe comparing to Montana distances? I assumed they were an easy day trip but a tricky (but doable) after work trip. This is how Seattle was. I assume any big city would be along these lines at best but maybe I’m wrong here. It does sound like SD has mountain biking right outside of downtown, impressive.

I get the bad weather. Like I said I lived in Seattle and now live in Spokane so I get the amount of gloomy days. Definitely gets to me in the winter but it does give you great forests so not all bad. Don’t get me wrong tho, my favorite winters are cold and sunny. Honestly I kind of worry if I’ll like 70 and sunny winters. I love change, including the change of seasons.

RE: the outdoors - it's more like Seattle in that regard. And yes, I compared them to Montana. In many ways, it spoiled me to what's possible and set the bar unattainably high for such things. Realize that a great many people that move here do so in part to the outdoors. So while on one hand, it's great that so many more people have rediscovered the outdoors, it also means that close-in and popular spots are getting loved to death. And to peel that onion back further, the local agencies that oversee these recreational areas see fit to restrict or close them down instead of finding new ways for people to enjoy our great outdoors.

As you lived in Seattle, Portland would be a rerun of your time in the Puget Sound, only with slightly more affordable housing, and slightly less wealthy tech-bros ruining everything. So if you're up for that, Portland would be a fit. Cold and sunny winters in Montana were a revelation to me.

As for a dating pool; it seems any locale with outdoor pursuits will attract a fair number of bros looking to get rad, so it serves that San Diego is no different than any mountain town. Portland skews the available dating pool but has some of that outdoor draw and also attracts a very, how shall I say... alternative set. So if that's your flavor, Portland is a boomtown. If it falls outside of that, it will be tough sledding.

The one thing San Diego won't have is the change of seasons as you know it from Seattle and Spokane. But what you lose there, you gain copious amounts of Vitamin D. And when those winter doldrums hit in February or March, and you want to hang yourself from the Spokane River bridge; in San Diego, you simply go outside and enjoy another 73-degree day. That's hard to argue...

[sb]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LKwW8PNZpOQ

[PeachesNCream]

RE: the outdoors - it's more like Seattle in that regard. And yes, I compared them to Montana. In many ways, it spoiled me to what's possible and set the bar unattainably high for such things. Realize that a great many people that move here do so in part to the outdoors. So while on one hand, it's great that so many more people have rediscovered the outdoors, it also means that close-in and popular spots are getting loved to death. And to peel that onion back further, the local agencies that oversee these recreational areas see fit to restrict or close them down instead of finding new ways for people to enjoy our great outdoors.

As you lived in Seattle, Portland would be a rerun of your time in the Puget Sound, only with slightly more affordable housing, and slightly less wealthy tech-bros ruining everything. So if you're up for that, Portland would be a fit. Cold and sunny winters in Montana were a revelation to me.

As for a dating pool; it seems any locale with outdoor pursuits will attract a fair number of bros looking to get rad, so it serves that San Diego is no different than any mountain town. Portland skews the available dating pool but has some of that outdoor draw and also attracts a very, how shall I say... alternative set. So if that's your flavor, Portland is a boomtown. If it falls outside of that, it will be tough sledding.

The one thing San Diego won't have is the change of seasons as you know it from Seattle and Spokane. But what you lose there, you gain copious amounts of Vitamin D. And when those winter doldrums hit in February or March, and you want to hang yourself from the Spokane River bridge; in San Diego, you simply go outside and enjoy another 73-degree day. That's hard to argue...

I guess I didn’t really express my opinion of living in Seattle. I look back at it as a good time but the gloomy winters and inability to meet people (friends or dating) made me very ready to get out. My gf at the time wanted me to move to Portland saying it was definitely different than Seattle but I didn’t buy it and I was so sick of Seattle. She sold it as more active, smaller town, sunnier, better food, more hippy (vs techy), and more interesting. While it might be some of that, it’s still probably pretty similar to Seattle, what you’re saying reminds me of that.

And yeah I don’t think the “alternative set” is my type, my type seems to be yoga, traveling, type of gal, SD probably has that. My brother says Portland leaves a lot to be desired as far as dating goes.

Hah skipping the winter SADs does sound nice. And instead of doing trips to sunshine in the winter, save money for more ski trips. I’ll still miss seasons but I’ll probably always do trips home for Christmas and skiing. Seems like I’m talking myself into SD

[Bobcat Sig]

I guess I didn’t really express my opinion of living in Seattle. I look back at it as a good time but the gloomy winters and inability to meet people (friends or dating) made me very ready to get out. My gf at the time wanted me to move to Portland saying it was definitely different than Seattle but I didn’t buy it and I was so sick of Seattle. She sold it as more active, smaller town, sunnier, better food, more hippy (vs techy), and more interesting. While it might be some of that, it’s still probably pretty similar to Seattle, what you’re saying reminds me of that.

I get it. But sunnier when compared to it-rains-all-the-fucking-time Seattle, which still equates to gray and wet, just a slight bit less. And yes, there is an edgier, crustier vibe in Portland, but it also comes with some mono-political militarism.

Anyway, lots of ranting to say that Portland is great, it's just not the awesome mecca that gets it so much attention as of late.

San Diego is a legit option. My impression is that housing will probably be just as expensive, if not a bit more, than in Seattle. And certainly way more than Spokane. But what you give up in tweakers, inland PNWet politics, and winter SAD; you gain outdoor living and a place to live that most people save all year to visit. Most I've read is that a sub-$100k salary cuts things pretty thin, but still doable.

I think a TR is in order....

[PeachesNCream]

As someone who doesn't spend a lot of time in that part of the city I just consider that part of North Park TBH. The whole area from Hillcrest, University Heights, North/South Park and Normal Heights would all be pretty cool to live in. South toward Golden Hill, Logan Heights and Barrio Logan is cool too but more gritty.

Winter here is awesome. 65-70 near the beach every day. Perfect weather for riding/hiking. All of our local riding is prime right now especially after a bit of rain. The desert areas like Palm Springs and Anza Borrego have similar high temps in winter. Our mountains get a bit cold but are still rideable unless we get a dump of snow. Late spring until October temps can be very hot unless you can get up to elevation or be near the water. You can still ride, but mostly early morning or sunset or you'll bake.

There are homeless here but you don't really see the disgusting, massive permanent camps right along freeways like you see in Portland, Seattle or LA. It's an issue, but I wouldn't say it affects livability here.

Inland.... wouldn't say it gets you anything except a bit of a different vibe compared to the beach communities. Areas like North/South Park more urban feel. Others like Poway or Rancho Bernardo are more suburban. Those areas might a bit cheaper, and definitely hotter. During May gray/June gloom there isn't a lot of sunshine at the beach. As soon as you cross I-5, you're probably out of the gloom.

MTB is pretty spread out here, but many areas can be connected together pretty well. This loop is from my old place. From OB add 5 miles of bike path each way. So not really MTB from OB, but I'll take it. https://ridewithgps.com/trips/109396334. Stagecoach 400 route: https://ridewithgps.com/routes/29589301. Local MTB club puts on a ride each year to connect a bunch of trail networks together. This is that route, plus the ride home to OB for 60+ miles: https://ridewithgps.com/trips/109396432

Not a climber, but there is lots of good climbing as I understand. Check out https://www.alliedclimbers.org/

Sounds like I need to get back into mtb-ing, sounds like pretty good trails, accessible, and ideal weather for it most of the year.

Good to note on where the May grey/June gloom is. I was in PB for a summer and remember thinking the weather was far from “perfect socal weather” and jealous of my friends in Idaho who were in 80 and sunny.

I get it. But sunnier when compared to it-rains-all-the-fucking-time Seattle, which still equates to gray and wet, just a slight bit less. And yes, there is an edgier, crustier vibe in Portland, but it also comes with some mono-political militarism.

Anyway, lots of ranting to say that Portland is great, it's just not the awesome mecca that gets it so much attention as of late.

San Diego is a legit option. My impression is that housing will probably be just as expensive, if not a bit more, than in Seattle. And certainly way more than Spokane. But what you give up in tweakers, inland PNWet politics, and winter SAD; you gain outdoor living and a place to live that most people save all year to visit. Most I've read is that a sub-$100k salary cuts things pretty thin, but still doable.

I think a TR is in order....

Haha that’s funny you say its getting great attention. 3/4 people I know think Portland is the worst place ever, the other 1/4 are in love with it. So mostly bad attention at least in my circle. But I seem to align more with the 1/4 than the 3/4, I’m sure it’s a fine city. Honestly if it were just the city I’m leaning Portland but I’ve got 2 good friends moving to SD and friends can definitely make or break a place. So with that I’m probably leaning SD. Got a trip planned for the end of Jan. Staying in Little Italy and going to spend time in surrounding areas like North Park. I’ll report back

I’ve got a roommate or 2 lined up in SD so that’ll help. I’ve been looking a little at places and it looks like I should be able to find an affordable enough spot. I don’t think I’ll be rich by any means with $95k but one thing I like about SD is there’s tons to do without spending money.

[Timberridge]

Peaches, you seem to be bouncing back and forth between SD and PDX, so what about going halfway between the two and looking in Chico?

[liv2ski]

Chico is hotter than fuck in the summer and not as warm in the winter. I was out walking the dogs this morning and thought how nice it was to be at 47 degrees and 65 later today than whatever it is where most of the mags are. The weather is tough to beat in SD. I for one welcome the June Gloom, as it helps us stay cooler than many places are and I hate the eventual heat of summer.

[skaredshtles]

Chico is hotter than fuck in the summer and not as warm in the winter.

[PeachesNCream]

Peaches, you seem to be bouncing back and forth between SD and PDX, so what about going halfway between the two and looking in Chico?

If it wasn't a joke.....Appreciate the suggestion. While I would welcome a more distinct change in seasons, I have good friends in SD and I want to be near a bigger city. I'm not afraid of not knowing people but life is better with good friends. Portland has skiing, closer to home, I know people, and is still a bigger city

[sirbumpsalot]

I may be moving to San Diego this spring. Planning a long weekend trip at the end of January. I would like to stay/eventually live somewhere that's more cultural/interesting, hipster is fine, they have good food and coffee shops. I've only spent time in pacific beach and it felt full of bros and basic girls, not looking for that. I'm 28, like to be social, enjoying running, good food, an area that's culturally interesting, walkable. The main 2 neighborhoods I'm looking at is little italy and north park.

Curious to hear other thoughts.
-How's making friends like? I've heard SD can be a little clicky, I know a couple people down there but for the most part would be trying to make friends. Climbing gym, running club, yoga studio would be my go-tos for meeting people.
-How's dating like? I'm 28, single, would prefer a relationship but not in a rush for anything, not that interested in hooking up. Obviously everyone is beautiful, I've heard terms like Man Diego (cause of the Navy base) and peter pan (no one wants to settle down). These seems like broad, probably inaccurate statements for a city this big
-Looks like there's some small ski resorts around, Mammoth is 7 hrs away. I'm kind of assuming my ski trips will be flying
-what're the mountain like? Are they mountains or more hills? If I wanted to go for a long run/hike how long is the drive?
-The other city I'm looking at is Portland. Quite a few similarities but some differences for sure. If people have spent time in both, would love to hear thoughts

Lived in both. No similarities between the two. Weather in SD is very consistent, weather in portland all over the map and too hot in summer.

Being 28 and single SD is the best option hands down.

[Bobcat Sig]

Lived in both. No similarities between the two. Weather in SD is very consistent, weather in portland all over the map and too hot in summer.

Being 28 and single SD is the best option hands down.

lolwut... too hot in the summer? Erm, I mean... YES! It's mega-hot here in the summer. Don't move here. Much hot, very sweat.

[AK47bp]

lolwut... too hot in the summer? Erm, I mean... YES! It's mega-hot here in the summer. Don't move here. Much hot, very sweat.

I even heard some people are actually usually air conditioning sometimes in Portland.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[sirbumpsalot]

lolwut... too hot in the summer? Erm, I mean... YES! It's mega-hot here in the summer. Don't move here. Much hot, very sweat.

Before I moved here people talked about those 70 degree summer days with little rain. Now that I've lived here for years I realize they were talking about Seattle...Portland in the Valley has not a drop of rain July - Sept and way too many 90-100 degree days...especially lately!

Aside from that...I still say 28 and single....socal is the place to be...hands down. Like someone else mentioned on here, I also lived my 20's and 30's in socal near the beach between SD, OC, LA and SB and it was unlike any other experience....then I grew up.